Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 44
  1. #1

    CHIA and ACHI cryptocurrency farming and hosting industry

    I am in process of locating a hosting provider for a fairly large order. Basically I am looking for tens of petabytes of storage at a reasonable price for purposes of farming of cryptocurrency called Achi. The farming technology for Achi is very similar to that of farming Chia.

    Feedback I received from some service providers I find very strange and even irrational. Admittedly, I am not an industry insider for a very long time now, but still have fair bit of experience as I have been renting and managing fairly large and complex dedi and colo setups for decades and on 4 continents. Therefore the purpose of this post is to start some discussion on the topic. And I am sincerely looking forward to hearing your opinions.

    As far as knowledge of topic of HDD crypto mining goes, I know exactly what I am talking about. I run a rack full of storage servers in my garage. A few PiB worth of them, in fact. Now I decided to expand a bit and to rent some dedicated servers. Basic premise is simple, service provider can get HDDs below 20$/TB, so they should be ecstatic to have an opportunity to rent it out for 2$/TB/month. Makes sense to me, doubtfully the industry has better ROI on the rest of the components. Not to mention cross sales of all the enclosures and services on top of that.

    That was the theory. Then came the practice. Found some large storage servers at Hetzner. They were plain rude in response to me trying to place a small test order about 500EUR/month for 3 servers. Just silently disabled my account. Ignored my email asking what went wrong. Yes, I know now that apparently they included in their T&S no cryptofarming/mining/breathing/etc. But they should not had to be that rude, could have just said they have some strange nonsense in their TOS. But OK. So be it. They want to be irrational, it is their business.

    Now let me explain why I think their behavior is irrational. Obviously the decisions they made were taken based on a belief that in process of farming Chia and similar cryptocurrencies users would destroy their precious SSD/NVMe drives due to endurance impact. However, the fact it that this is simply not true. At least not true anymore. Process of farming Chia has evolved and the common way of doing it today involves using so called MadMax method, where a tmpfs of 110GB is created and ssd is used to write plot only once. As such endurance impact is by an order of magnitude lower than feared. All you need is a server with 110Gb RAM for tmpfs. It is not much more taxing than other typical workloads.

    Let me illustrate how it actually works. First so called plot has to be created. Plot is a 100GB file with some uncompressable crypto data. Lets take a typical 3 year old system such as Gen8 ML350P, 128GB RAM, 1TB consumer NVMe disk. To create such plot such server would run some heavy calculations and do heavy read writes on RAM disk for about 30minutes. Then write the result as a 100GB plot file to nvme, which later would be shipped by network to a 'farmer' machine for long term storage. The farmer/storage machine basically writes such incoming plot files once to available storage. Then once a minute or so farmer reads a handful of blocks from storage. Farming is probably the lightest use of hardware you will ever have in your datacenters. And once plotted they will likely stay rented for years.

    This is all HDD cryptocurrency farming does. I plotted petabytes using such method in such setup and I know for a fact that consumer grade nvme drives I used are nowhere close to their limits of endurance. This is actual reality, all the irrational fears have nothing to do with it. There is no endurance death of any components involved.

    I would respectfully suggest that hosting industry is collectively shooting itself in a foot by fearing HDD cryptocurrecny farming. You should be embracing it instead. There is a Klondike gold rush going on and you are de facto refusing to sell shovels and jeans. You insist on renting 1TB of storage addons for 7-12$ per month when it costs you 20$ to buy and has lifetime of 5-7 years. Did you guys learn this in your fancy MBA schools or do I miss something here?

    The new generation of crypto is quite different from Bitcoin and others. But still this is going to be a trillion dollar industry eventually. It is not something to be ignored. You are so well positioned to profit from all of it. Your cryptofarmer customers only need from you decent rental price on storage. It still will pay for itself in one year. They do not need much bandwidth or IPs. There is no risks of AUP violations and related mess etc... They are nice and quiet money making machines! They are perfect customers, especially for smaller, not superbly connected data centers.

    I invite responses from industry insiders and hoping to learn why the industry is so hostile to potential clients in this segment. Tell me if there is something I misunderstood.

    <<snipped>>

    Looking forward to your responses. Thank You.
    Last edited by bear; 11-16-2021 at 07:47 AM.

  2. #2
    The problem is business risk, i.e. all of it falls on the host.

    Your mining activity, let's say makes $2 /mo for every $1 /mo in hosting cost. Then there is the issue, if you can make $2 for every $1 in hosting, you will want as much as you can get your hands on -- unlimited demand. This is an unlimited cost for the host, and only for very specific configurations good for mining. If you cancel, there won't be other customers lined up who want all of these unusual configurations.

    It gets even worse than just you cancelling everything all at once -- if other customers also are mining, who also want as much as they can get their hands on, and suddenly it is not profitable anymore, absolutely everyone doing this cancels absolutely everything at the same time. The host meanwhile is still expected to pay the power bill for these servers -- colocation typically is on a minimum one year contract, often longer. By needing hundreds or even thousands of specialized servers, from a customer base who will all want to cancel at the same time when the time comes, it is a risk that can put a host out of business. It is irresponsible for a host to allow crypto mining for this reason.

    It is like insuring beachfront Florida property for hurricanes -- no fee anyone could afford to pay could adequately cover the risk to the insurance company in the event a big hurricane hit and everyone files a claim at once.

    Also, Mining is nothing special, if the host thought the risk was justified by the payoff, they could do it themselves. Instead of charging you $1 so you can earn $2, and then you cancel as soon as the earnings drop to $0.90, the host could make the $2 instead, and keep the server running even at $0.90 or $0.50, just so long as the power bill is paid for. You are just a middle man / parasite who reduces the possible revenue of the host while taking on none of the risk you are creating for the host.

    If you want to be taken seriously you should be looking to pay a lot more to offset the risk you are creating -- maybe pay 6 - 12 months hosting up front, or pay a large setup fee. At least then, the host is taking less than all of the risk and you are taking more than none of it.
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
    Phoenix, AZ Dedicated Servers in under an hour
    ★ Ryzen 9: 7950x3D ★ Dual E5-2680v4 Xeon ★
    Contact Us: sales@ioflood.com

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, NY Seattle,WA
    Posts
    4,182
    I would have to agree with the Wizard on this one.
    It's not a solid market and these types of things kill off hosts who accept it all of the time. Even with Bitcoin mining we found when it took a huge dive in the past we had racks of customers in one of our data centers ditch everything and stop paying bills.
    Buying all of this hardware and having everyone cancel after a specific time if it goes bad could be really bad.

    Paying up front for 6-12 months can reduce this risk or the large setup fees.
    If it's so good however you might as well buy everything and do it in a warehouse if that would work out.
    ⚡️ PUREVOLTAGE.COM ⚡️Custom Dedicated Servers, Colocation, VPS Contact us: sales@purevoltage.com Skype: Mobile.Jake
    AMD EPYC 7443P RYZEN 7950X3D ⚡️ NVME 10G - 100Gbps We do it all!

    New York City ★ Seattle ★ Los Angeles ★ Chicago ★ Dallas

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Purevoltage View Post
    If it's so good however you might as well buy everything and do it in a warehouse if that would work out.
    Yeah I agree. A small warehouse with evaporative cooling should be able to handle a few racks of this kind of equipment, maybe 10-20PB without much effort or modification.
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
    Phoenix, AZ Dedicated Servers in under an hour
    ★ Ryzen 9: 7950x3D ★ Dual E5-2680v4 Xeon ★
    Contact Us: sales@ioflood.com

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    1,498
    As long as you're willing to pay up front for the specialized hardware pieces, most hosts will be willing to accommodate. If you can't commit to doing that, why would the host have to be the one making the commitment?

    The host should always be willing to take risks on stuff they can reuse, as even then it can become a risk in larger orders. Non-reusables will require the customer to be the one taking on that risk.
    TailorMadeServers.Com - Dallas Dedicated Servers since 2003
    joseq@tailormadeservers.com | Skype (TailorMadeServers) | http://twitter.com/tailoredservers

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2021
    Location
    Netherlands
    Posts
    10
    Quote Originally Posted by startupcto View Post
    It still will pay for itself in one year.
    You should not have to encounter rude answer, even if the host is explicitly not allowing what you'd like to do. If you are being honest about the intentions of what you will use the large orders it can be explained in a general tone of voice.

    However, do note that even if this business will 'pay for itself'. It is not a guarantee and is not a factor that hosting parties should think about. They have to decide whether to take on the risk as some have already pointed out. And the other way around, since you have no complete overview of a business entity, even though well informed, you are not able to know if this is profitable for them. However in your argument I understand this is part of trying to figure out why it is handled.

    Let me elaborate on why I think this is being handled as a risk for hosting parties. I don't think it's true that we fear all that is cryptocurrency. Some even accept it as a payment method. Moreover, since it is quite new development. You also hear the opposite of what you are stating about the initial 100 GB “plot”. If it has changed quite recently it has to be written about more with concrete examples given. Perhaps you are able to share one such newer research where this is thoroughly investigated? I'd say it's more about being cautious then fearful.

  7. #7
    Thank you so much everyone for your responses! It appears that looking from a o point of view of a customer I did not appreciate fully how risk assessment is done by a hosting service provider.

    However, partly it is because there is a mismatch in risk estimates. It appears service providers tend to base it mostly on their experience with older generations of crypto such as Bitcoin and Etherium. With their Proof of Work approach and effectively power to money transformation where "warehouses with evaporation cooling" always beat proper data-centers on price plus all the free market volatility affecting all of it and plus quick obsolesce for the hardware.

    The new generation of cryptocurrencies based on Proof of Space such as Chia and now Achi, and surely there will be more to come as one of their core advantages are not power hungry. Their blockchain securing algorithm is based on disk space. This is completely new beast and blindly applying experience from previous generations is wrong. I will give a more detailed example of PoS workflow below. HDDs do not become obsolete quickly.

    I suggest that it is incorrect to assume that customer want only to offload risk on host. In my specific example I already have a mini 'evaporative warehouse' but with crypto being so young and yet without liquid marketplace the only way for an investor to enter is to engage in farming. However, these investors only have money, no specific technical expertise and no time. At the same time you as industry already have in place expertise, labor, real estate, supply chain, power and financing. It is, in fact, no so much risk investors want to offload but all the legwork.

    As far as risk of quick cancellation goes, clients have high upfront costs already in terms of plotting/initialization of the storage. It makes no sense to them to cancel storage early after all the effort to initialize it. If we go ad absurdum, then yes client wants to get unlimited space for one month for 2$/TB and then walk away, on the other side hosting service wants setup fee 20$/TB and all the rest is gravy. But surely in between these win-lose which are actually lose-lose scenarios must be a win-win somewhere. Moreover, there are various ways of risk mitigation available such as reusing those HDDs by either farming themselves or renting it out to the next generation of farmers or to other upcoming cryptos with PoS. Chia farmers dropping out, Achi farmers coming in and so on. All the other components are already easily reusable.

    I would suggest that clearly PoS based workloads, unlike PoW based workloads lend themselves much better to DC based setups. The power envelope is clearly different. There is a high expense of computer power to initialize the storage and once it is done it makes sense to let the storage ride as long as possible. I would estimate that clients would have no problems committing for 4-6 month on the storage component. You demand more than that and then it is the 'warehouse' route.


    Here is a specific example of proof of space workflow.

    1. A storage unit rented with 0.5 PB storage and 10Gbps private port.
    2. Now client needs to initialize the storage as quickly as possible so that it can start farming. They need 10 units of any generic '128GB+RAM, 1TB nvme, 1Gbps private port' at say 100$/month each. These 10 units would init 48 PB/day. So in about two weeks 0.5 PB is in service and client will want to ride it as long as market allows.
    3. Once initialized the storage units just sit there reading a few blocks per minute from storage and with 1% CPU utilization and with minuscule bandwidth use.

    To summarize, client wants 2k$/month/PB for storage. Pays another 2k$ one time for init. It might be different for different currencies, but for example Achi expects halving in December 2021, April 2022 and December 2022. So commitment from now till April would be an easy decision for the client. With a good chance that it will ride till next December. And to large extent this decision also depends on how reasonable your pricing of TB/month is. maybe more first 6 month and less after that would make sense for both parties.

    Thank you again everyone for your responses, they were very helpful. I actually now have higher hopes on finding a win-win scenario.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,896
    @startupcto - It sounds like hosts just aren't willing to do a whole bunch of work, invest a ton of money, and take significant risks to break even on hardware in ~18 months, which will have minimal resale value once it's released.

    Maybe you've found your illusive niche, and need to start your own hosting company offering this service, since you can see the value where the providers cannot.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Here Today - Gone to Maui
    Posts
    9,965
    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    @startupcto - It sounds like hosts just aren't willing to do a whole bunch of work, invest a ton of money, and take significant risks to break even on hardware in ~18 months, which will have minimal resale value once it's released.

    Maybe you've found your illusive niche, and need to start your own hosting company offering this service, since you can see the value where the providers cannot.
    Couldn't have said it better. At least for now, the general consensus is that the risk here isn't worth pursuing.
    ProlimeHost - Dedicated Server Hosting & KVM SSD VPS
    Three Datacenter Locations: Los Angeles, Denver & Singapore
    SuperMicro Hardware | Multiple Bandwidth Providers | 24/7 On-site Engineers

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    @startupcto - It sounds like hosts just aren't willing to do a whole bunch of work, invest a ton of money, and take significant risks to break even on hardware in ~18 months, which will have minimal resale value once it's released.

    Maybe you've found your illusive niche, and need to start your own hosting company offering this service, since you can see the value where the providers cannot.
    LOL. Exactly!

    Plus, if a host were willing to jump all these hoops on your behalf, why wouldn't they take the final step and mine these currencies themselves? For the host, this allows better risk management and greater financial reward.

    We do that currently -- we have a lot of 6 and 8tb drives being used for Chia. If a real customer comes along and needs them, we wipe the chia drives and use them for a real customer. If you rent a server from me dirt cheap, I can't just cancel your servers whenever a better client comes along wanting them.

    Even getting 100% of the mining revenue, and having total flexibility on when I redeploy the servers for other purposes, it is not risk-free, and it is not a big money maker. Why would I increase the risk and reduce the reward to take on a mining customer? You said yourself the host has all the expertise and resources to get this done, and you don't want to do the legwork. So why involve you at all?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, NY Seattle,WA
    Posts
    4,182
    Quote Originally Posted by startupcto View Post
    Here is a specific example of proof of space workflow.

    1. A storage unit rented with 0.5 PB storage and 10Gbps private port.
    2. Now client needs to initialize the storage as quickly as possible so that it can start farming. They need 10 units of any generic '128GB+RAM, 1TB nvme, 1Gbps private port' at say 100$/month each. These 10 units would init 48 PB/day. So in about two weeks 0.5 PB is in service and client will want to ride it as long as market allows.
    3. Once initialized the storage units just sit there reading a few blocks per minute from storage and with 1% CPU utilization and with minuscule bandwidth use.
    One of the problems with these things is peoples low budgets on these types of systems.

    $100 a month, a proper system for a data center provider with these specs costs at least around 1k for anything that isn't complete trash on the lower end.
    So before taking power, networking, cooling, staffs time, gateway fees. Just with the equipment itself you are looking at 10 month ROI for the host.
    Most systems will cost around $30 a month at the least for power cooling and bandwidth. So now you are talking about 14 months before making a profit. Most providers are looking for 8-12 months ROI at the least with some larger companies who have massive funds can do something around 14 months.

    Sure 10k isn't much at all we buy systems all of the time that cost 10-30k for clients who need custom systems. However, things such as this end up being more work than they are worth for most providers. We are in the tech field, with Chia it was better for providers to mine with our own equipment than rent it out to others. I know a lot of companies who had massive amounts of spare equipment and they did the mining themselves since they could control things a lot better.

    We seen huge amounts of orders with Chia to a point that we stopped processing orders for most things that even felt like Chia mining as we would have had to buy another 1-2 million in equipment just to keep up with it. Only to have those clients possibly charge back, ditch the equipment etc after it flopped.

    As said from @porcupine It's just not worth the hosts time or money for this type of thing.
    ⚡️ PUREVOLTAGE.COM ⚡️Custom Dedicated Servers, Colocation, VPS Contact us: sales@purevoltage.com Skype: Mobile.Jake
    AMD EPYC 7443P RYZEN 7950X3D ⚡️ NVME 10G - 100Gbps We do it all!

    New York City ★ Seattle ★ Los Angeles ★ Chicago ★ Dallas

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Purevoltage View Post
    One of the problems with these things is peoples low budgets on these types of systems.

    $100 a month, a proper system for a data center provider with these specs costs at least around 1k for anything that isn't complete trash on the lower end.
    So before taking power, networking, cooling, staffs time, gateway fees. Just with the equipment itself you are looking at 10 month ROI for the host.
    Most systems will cost around $30 a month at the least for power cooling and bandwidth. So now you are talking about 14 months before making a profit. Most providers are looking for 8-12 months ROI at the least with some larger companies who have massive funds can do something around 14 months.

    Sure 10k isn't much at all we buy systems all of the time that cost 10-30k for clients who need custom systems. However, things such as this end up being more work than they are worth for most providers. We are in the tech field, with Chia it was better for providers to mine with our own equipment than rent it out to others. I know a lot of companies who had massive amounts of spare equipment and they did the mining themselves since they could control things a lot better.

    We seen huge amounts of orders with Chia to a point that we stopped processing orders for most things that even felt like Chia mining as we would have had to buy another 1-2 million in equipment just to keep up with it. Only to have those clients possibly charge back, ditch the equipment etc after it flopped.

    As said from @porcupine It's just not worth the hosts time or money for this type of thing.
    The plotting servers need a lot of power as well, likely around 300w each or roughly double what's needed for a typical server. Hosting provider has to commit to that power for a minimum of a year, and the customer needs it for only a week at a time? No thanks.

    If anything, it has been a big relief that Chia mining revenue crashed -- we know that someone renting our servers is not doing it for Chia because we charge more for mass storage servers than you can earn mining Chia on them. It was getting to the point where we weren't allowing customers to order large hard drives at all because it was likely for Chia. That is really bad for legitimate customers who needed storage for legitimate reasons, but there was no way to tell the difference. Even longtime non-Chia customers were ordering for Chia as they had sales inquires from Chia miners or they wanted to get in on it themselves. Really thankful all that nonsense is behind us.
    Last edited by funkywizard; 11-16-2021 at 09:25 PM.

  13. #13
    Thank you for further responses. First of all, I do not in any way have any ambition to tell you how to run your business. You surely know it better than me. And your responses offer an interesting insight.

    To summarize. I see the following point being brought up:

    100$ is too little for plotting server you mentioned.
    Sure. I do not pretend to be a central bank of hosting and authority on what the price should be. Perfectly happy to let free market to figure it out. If it is in fact 200$ so be it. That was just an example of workflow, not a price suggestion.


    Open you own hosting biz, if you think it is such a great niche.
    Well, in my personal case I was 'startupcto' in 2005. Now I am more like a 'retired (b/m)illionaire'. So I have better things to do than to engage in a low margin and commoditized business. Just wanted to be able to refer some friends to someone who could do for them what I do myself as a hobby in my garage. Because, again, I have better things to do.

    You will make 2$ on every 1$ of hosting cost. So I could just do it myself, why should I bother providing dedicated hosting service to you?
    Well. Chances are I will make 1000$ on every 1$ of of hosting costs. And no you would not be able to do it, simply because you do not have the balls to carry such risks for such long time as I can and will.

    Do you tell the same thing to your porn customers? Or are you only making money when your customers losing it?

    I thought you guys are in business of providing DEDICATED SERVER hosting. But at least some here it seems either not in this business or engage in false advertising. Otherwise there would be no objections to a client doing whatever he wants on dedicated server he rented as long as it is legal and within TOS/AUP. And you would not be excluding particular heavy workloads on TOS/AUP level.

    Perhaps this is a core of the misunderstanding and risk assessment mismatch. Some/most of service providers here are perhaps not really in the business of 'dedicated server hosting' as they advertise.

    It is not my intention to offend anyone. But the logic is undeniable. You are either 'dedicated server' provider or you simply pretend to be one. And this topic kind of like litmus test of exactly this. Maybe there should be a separate section on this website named 'sorta dedicated server'?

    ... it has been a big relief that Chia mining revenue crashed.
    Yes. Chia was quite a flop so far, ha. But your customers might be farming all the forks and maybe re-plotting into Achi. Chia debacle is not quite an end of the world as it may appear. And all this 'nonsense' is certainly as behind us as bitcoin mining 2010-style.

    Thank you again for your comments and please do not take my comments as an offense. It might be harsh, but it is fair.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by startupcto View Post
    Thank you for further responses. First of all, I do not in any way have any ambition to tell you how to run your business. You surely know it better than me. And your responses offer an interesting insight.

    To summarize. I see the following point being brought up:



    Sure. I do not pretend to be a central bank of hosting and authority on what the price should be. Perfectly happy to let free market to figure it out. If it is in fact 200$ so be it. That was just an example of workflow, not a price suggestion.




    Well, in my personal case I was 'startupcto' in 2005. Now I am more like a 'retired (b/m)illionaire'. So I have better things to do than to engage in a low margin and commoditized business. Just wanted to be able to refer some friends to someone who could do for them what I do myself as a hobby in my garage. Because, again, I have better things to do.



    Well. Chances are I will make 1000$ on every 1$ of of hosting costs. And no you would not be able to do it, simply because you do not have the balls to carry such risks for such long time as I can and will.

    Do you tell the same thing to your porn customers? Or are you only making money when your customers losing it?

    I thought you guys are in business of providing DEDICATED SERVER hosting. But at least some here it seems either not in this business or engage in false advertising. Otherwise there would be no objections to a client doing whatever he wants on dedicated server he rented as long as it is legal and within TOS/AUP. And you would not be excluding particular heavy workloads on TOS/AUP level.

    Perhaps this is a core of the misunderstanding and risk assessment mismatch. Some/most of service providers here are perhaps not really in the business of 'dedicated server hosting' as they advertise.

    It is not my intention to offend anyone. But the logic is undeniable. You are either 'dedicated server' provider or you simply pretend to be one. And this topic kind of like litmus test of exactly this. Maybe there should be a separate section on this website named 'sorta dedicated server'?



    Yes. Chia was quite a flop so far, ha. But your customers might be farming all the forks and maybe re-plotting into Achi. Chia debacle is not quite an end of the world as it may appear. And all this 'nonsense' is certainly as behind us as bitcoin mining 2010-style.

    Thank you again for your comments and please do not take my comments as an offense. It might be harsh, but it is fair.
    There is no value added by a mining customer. They do not have any special way to bring more demand for servers than I could not bring myself by installing a computer program and hitting the "go" button. Unless the mining customer wants to front the hardware cost, there is literally no reason to want to do business with a mining customer instead of doing it yourself.

    The whole point of offering services in an economy is specialization -- a vendor can produce more of something than they can use, and a customer can use more of that thing than they could produce. The customer brings demand and the vendor brings supply. As a hosting provider, I do not have an unlimited demand for website visitors -- the customers bring that to the table.

    However in your scenario, the customer brings nothing but problems. They may need support, they may not pay on time, they might use a stolen credit card. And in the end they want me to sell them a $2 bill for $1. Why would I agree to that? They literally are trying to rent a money printing machine, monthly, for less money than the machine can print in a month. The customer is not specially skilled in operating the money printing machine either -- usually the host is better equipped to do that as well.

    You may as well ask why it is that commercial real estate owners are picky about what tenants they allow to rent their buildings. They require a deposit, a long term commitment, strong creditworthiness, solid business fundamentals, and will not rent to business types they find to be undesirable or high risk. This does not make them "pretend landlords", or "sort of a landlord". A bank is not "sort of a bank" or "pretending to be a bank" if it doesn't accept money from questionable customers either. It is exactly the kind of risk management that a good business performs if it expects to remain in business.
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
    Phoenix, AZ Dedicated Servers in under an hour
    ★ Ryzen 9: 7950x3D ★ Dual E5-2680v4 Xeon ★
    Contact Us: sales@ioflood.com

  15. #15
    There is no value added by a mining customer
    WOW!!! You got it other way around. You should be providing value to get any of my money. You refuse, I do not pay. Find other suckers.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by startupcto View Post
    WOW!!! You got it other way around. You should be providing value to get any of my money. You refuse, I do not pay. Find other suckers.
    You opened the thread saying you didn't want to do the legwork and how hosts are uniquely set up to service the needs of miners. But it's a two way street. You want to pay $1 for a $2 bill, and also bring nothing else to the table. If crypto is such a good market, and I'm expected to front the investment, why would I want customers at all? It is much easier to set up one more mining server for myself than to set one up for a customer.

    If you look at "cloud mining" businesses, where someone else mines on your behalf, they charge way way more than hosting providers charge for similarly expensive hardware. They charge a huge setup fee and a large ongoing monthly fee.

    Dedicated hosts manage to offer better prices, but it's not by magic. There is less risk when renting to a real customer than a crypto miner. Real customers don't need unlimited servers and then all fall off the face of the earth simultaneously. Real customers may stay in business for multiple years. They may see a steady level of growth vs all or nothing you get from crypto demand. If one customer hosts elsewhere or goes out of business, you can find another customer who needs similar hardware -- especially if you do your job correctly and don't buy oddball stuff hardly anyone wants. In other words, you can actually build a sustainable business when you are not servicing ponzi coin speculators.

    It takes a lot of work and effort to get to the point where your business could even possibly try to help miners do their mining, where you have the staff and resources necessary to service their needs. Why would a host flush all that down the toilet for the benefit of a here today gone tomorrow customer, to the detriment of all the real customers who have supported them over many years?
    Last edited by funkywizard; 11-17-2021 at 03:34 AM.
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
    Phoenix, AZ Dedicated Servers in under an hour
    ★ Ryzen 9: 7950x3D ★ Dual E5-2680v4 Xeon ★
    Contact Us: sales@ioflood.com

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    You opened the thread saying you didn't want to do the legwork and how hosts are uniquely set up to service the needs of miners. But it's a two way street. You want to pay $1 for a $2 bill, and also bring nothing else to the table. If crypto is such a good market, and I'm expected to front the investment, why would I want customers at all? It is much easier to set up one more mining server for myself than to set one up for a customer.
    You clearly misinterpreted my post. Lets finish this conversation here. At this point as it clearly provides no further value to anyone.

    I am still looking forward for other opinions. But so far this all was very helpful for me and helped me to better understand what is going on. For this I thank you all.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by startupcto View Post
    You clearly misinterpreted my post. Lets finish this conversation here. At this point as it clearly provides no further value to anyone.

    I am still looking forward for other opinions. But so far this all was very helpful for me and helped me to better understand what is going on. For this I thank you all.
    I also got some good enjoyment out of our discussion.
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
    Phoenix, AZ Dedicated Servers in under an hour
    ★ Ryzen 9: 7950x3D ★ Dual E5-2680v4 Xeon ★
    Contact Us: sales@ioflood.com

  19. #19
    Unrelated to the topic at hand, but what's with these random necromanced WHT accounts I've been noticing lately? Been a member for 16 years and decided to start a discussion just now? Seems more like generated content for the sake of activity than anything, but I'll remove my tin foil hat and touch base on the topic.

    Personally, if I were leasing a server from a provider I wouldn't want the drives previously used by a CHIA miner as they get hit pretty hard compared to traditional / normal use. Many providers take that into consideration as well and strictly prohibit CHIA, even on dedicated server rentals.

    Your best bet is to probably just buy the hardware yourself and colocate it. Be sure to ship the datacenter some spare drives when the ones you buy eventually fail, depending on how long of an operation you're planning.

    EDIT: @funkywizard - I'm not even sure this person or request is legitimate.

    My profile, archived: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https:...r.php?u=303925
    Your profile archived: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https:...r.php?u=105118
    This guy's "15+ year old profile: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https:...r.php?u=128458 Not yet archived.

    Is WHT staff creating new profiles, adjusting the registration date to make them look aged and posting stuff like this thread to generate activity?
    Last edited by MannDude; 11-17-2021 at 10:07 AM.
    [ IncogNET LLC ] Privacy By Design [Liberty Lake, WA][Kansas City, MO][Allentown, PA][Naaldwijk, NL]
    [ Web Hosting | KVM VPS | Dedicated Servers | Domain Names | VPN | Censorship Resistance ]
    Services provided in the United States and Netherlands with privacy and freedom of speech being our top priority.


  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2018
    Posts
    47
    Quote Originally Posted by IncogNET - Curtis View Post
    Is WHT staff creating new profiles, adjusting the registration date to make them look aged and posting stuff like this thread to generate activity?
    The thread just got featured and an email was sent out

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Manhattan, NY Seattle,WA
    Posts
    4,182
    Quote Originally Posted by ollayy View Post
    The thread just got featured and an email was sent out
    I do find it funky how some in my mind kind of useless posts get featured.
    ⚡️ PUREVOLTAGE.COM ⚡️Custom Dedicated Servers, Colocation, VPS Contact us: sales@purevoltage.com Skype: Mobile.Jake
    AMD EPYC 7443P RYZEN 7950X3D ⚡️ NVME 10G - 100Gbps We do it all!

    New York City ★ Seattle ★ Los Angeles ★ Chicago ★ Dallas

  22. #22
    George Lucas has an interview relevant to this. He did all the work to make Star Wars for half the profits, while the studio wanted the other half for putting up the money. George retained sequel rights because the studio thought Star Wars would flop. So then George financed the second Star Wars himself, and he demanded 100% profits and would just pay them some nominal amount for distribution. The studio was aghast. He explained, well, your half of the profits came from putting in all the money and my half came from doing all the work. Now that I'm doing both of those things, why would you get anything?
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
    Phoenix, AZ Dedicated Servers in under an hour
    ★ Ryzen 9: 7950x3D ★ Dual E5-2680v4 Xeon ★
    Contact Us: sales@ioflood.com

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,896
    Quote Originally Posted by Purevoltage View Post
    I do find it funky how some in my mind kind of useless posts get featured.
    Oh come on now, it's not every day the lowly WHT users get to rub elbows with a
    'retired (b/m)illionaire'
    , surely the algo's recognized the significance.

    [and I mean what's a factor of 1000 between friends?]

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by porcupine View Post
    Oh come on now, it's not every day the lowly WHT users get to rub elbows with a , surely the algo's recognized the significance.

    [and I mean what's a factor of 1000 between friends?]
    I assumed (b/m)illionaire was how you write out that you're stuttering the words.

    Us fancy pants like to call it "3 orders of magnitude" -- makes it harder for people to understand what you're saying.
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
    Phoenix, AZ Dedicated Servers in under an hour
    ★ Ryzen 9: 7950x3D ★ Dual E5-2680v4 Xeon ★
    Contact Us: sales@ioflood.com

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Posts
    6,896
    Quote Originally Posted by funkywizard View Post
    I assumed (b/m)illionaire was how you write out that you're stuttering the words.

    Us fancy pants like to call it "3 orders of magnitude" -- makes it harder for people to understand what you're saying.
    I was worried if I got too fancy with the multiples, it might get accidentally log'd out

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. US economy crisis and hosting industry
    By boon86 in forum Web Hosting
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 12-29-2011, 11:38 AM
  2. Hosting Industry and Market of Pakistan
    By aatayyab in forum Web Hosting
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: 06-16-2005, 02:50 PM
  3. Highly Experienced and Looking for Job in Hosting Industry
    By J Rodriguez in forum Employment / Job Offers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-26-2005, 10:42 AM
  4. Why I left the web hosting industry... Parts 1 and 2
    By trafficb in forum Dedicated Server
    Replies: 43
    Last Post: 03-31-2004, 05:09 PM
  5. Hosting Industry Size and Profits.
    By AdminLive in forum Running a Web Hosting Business
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 10-04-2002, 09:41 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •