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  1. #51
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
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    Isle of Man
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    3,068
    I can confirm the pictures Karl has showed you too

    It looks a complete mess in there ;/

  2. #52
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA
    Posts
    245
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    Yet taking down a single transformer took down their operations: http://www.fdcservers.net/vbulletin/...ead.php?t=3539

    The building might have multiple feeds, but when you yourself are only fed by one, what does it matter if the building has six pulled in?
    Wow, Good call. I had no idea one transformer could take down their operations. According to that link, some were down 16 hours or more

  3. #53
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Raleigh, NC
    Posts
    714
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    No, they do not, since they do not have a UPS at all.
    Karl you're wrong! They have 4 racked APC UPSs for their networking gear in this pic http://ub3r.net/fdc/IMG_2476.jpg so don't worry, if utility power is down, some of their network might still be up

  4. #54
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
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    5,662
    Quote Originally Posted by TQ Mark View Post
    Karl you're wrong! They have 4 racked APC UPSs for their networking gear in this pic http://ub3r.net/fdc/IMG_2476.jpg so don't worry, if utility power is down, some of their network might still be up
    wow, LOL. A network cable tech would have a heart attack looking at that 48 port sfp blade in one of the cores.

  5. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by HD-Sam View Post
    Wow, Good call. I had no idea one transformer could take down their operations. According to that link, some were down 16 hours or more
    There was zero downtime at their facility with that maintenance.

    The power feeds to our colocated servers had 100% power uptime since their installation in 2008 in FDC Chicago. The same cannot be said for our hardware in 365Main, Burst, ThePlanet.. We recently pulled our servers out from their facility due to hardware consolidation, so we saw their DC first hand..
    Our servers have ambient temperature monitoring in them, and only twice have they gone above 80F, and was only for brief periods of time. Despite the "uglyness" of FDC, their staff has wonderful support and we had zero issues with their normal staff(Their abuse department is dreadful to deal with). Tickets we have filed for support have been answered anywhere from 45 seconds after creation(and being resolved), to about an hour.

    Karl, your comments in this thread are very inappropriate and completely unprofessional-- especially as the Steadfast CEO. Considering your own UPS systems failed and caused downtime last year, you have no rights to comment on the operation of other companies, especially when their uptime and service surpasses yours.

  6. #56
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    6,957
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiky View Post
    There was zero downtime at their facility with that maintenance.

    The power feeds to our colocated servers had 100% power uptime since their installation in 2008 in FDC Chicago. The same cannot be said for our hardware in 365Main, Burst, ThePlanet.. We recently pulled our servers out from their facility due to hardware consolidation, so we saw their DC first hand..
    Our servers have ambient temperature monitoring in them, and only twice have they gone above 80F, and was only for brief periods of time. Despite the "uglyness" of FDC, their staff has wonderful support and we had zero issues with their normal staff(Their abuse department is dreadful to deal with). Tickets we have filed for support have been answered anywhere from 45 seconds after creation(and being resolved), to about an hour.

    Karl, your comments in this thread are very inappropriate and completely unprofessional-- especially as the Steadfast CEO. Considering your own UPS systems failed and caused downtime last year, you have no rights to comment on the operation of other companies, especially when their uptime and service surpasses yours.
    I agree completely, my experience with FDC staff has always been good, support responses were good, etc. I owe a good bit of my start to FDC and have no hard feelings for them directly. My issue is with them being used as a baseline for data center pricing and I do not see how informing people of the reason for these differences/discrepancies is unprofessional. My comments are specifically related to how FDC cannot be used as a baseline cost for the cost of what most people would consider to be a data center.

    Also, to say their uptime surpasses ours is utterly ridiculous and to say their was zero downtime from that maintenance is simply not true. In the past 3+ years, we have only experienced power disruption for less than 1/4 of our customers (a single feed in one of our multiple facilities) for a total of less than one second and no dual corded customers would have been affected at all. FDC has had a multiple hour outage that affected roughly half of their customers, including most core networking gear (I believe one or two of their secondary rooms is fed from a different feed and were unaffected by that maintenance), and at least one other outage with a breaker in a PDU (http://www.fdcservers.net/vbulletin/...ead.php?t=3280) that lasted significantly more than the 1 second of our outage... The one FDC power outage with the transformer actually surpasses the downtime of ALL of our power AND network outages throughout our entire 7+ year history of operating our own space.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 02-25-2010 at 10:13 PM.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  7. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    I agree completely, my experience with FDC staff has always been good, support responses were good, etc. I owe a good bit of my start to FDC and have no hard feelings for them directly. My issue is with them being used as a baseline for data center pricing and I do not see how informing people of the reason for these differences/discrepancies is unprofessional. My comments are specifically related to how FDC cannot be used as a baseline cost for the cost of what most people would consider to be a data center.

    Also, to say their uptime surpasses ours is utterly ridiculous and to say their was zero downtime from that maintenance is simply not true. In the past 3+ years, we have only experienced power disruption for less than 1/4 of our customers (a single feed in one of our multiple facilities) for a total of less than one second and no dual corded customers would have been affected at all. FDC has had a multiple hour outage that affected roughly half of their customers, including most core networking gear (I believe one or two of their secondary rooms is fed from a different feed and were unaffected by that maintenance), and at least one other outage with a breaker in a PDU (http://www.fdcservers.net/vbulletin/...ead.php?t=3280) that lasted significantly more than the 1 second of our outage...
    I would agree that to compare FDC's pricing to a datacenter that has things set up with all the professional trimmings is not a fair comparison. The bandwidth is more heavily oversubscribed, such that it is hard to get good single-stream transfer rates, for example. And of course, many places spend more money on facilities. That said, FDC are not scammers, and their network does have decent global reach. As such, FDC will typically give they're advertising they're giving you. If you have a 1gbps port, typically you'll be able to push a full 1gbps, even if the per-stream rates are not so good. Now, at other super-budget hosts, this may not be the case, so I wouldn't bring them up with a discussion like this.

    The point is, FDC's pricing does serve as a good floor for pricing, for comparison purposes. If FDC is charging X, and you add some amount Y to account for better maintained facilities and less oversubscription on bandwidth, then you arrive at a figure that's probably what other facilities, who have similar bandwidth commits, could be offering you. This is helpful so you can know if you're getting a good deal or not. It's also helpful such that, if someone is offering something dramatically cheaper than FDC, it's probably too good to be true, and you should stay away. So it's a useful means of comparison there too.

    So in those regards, yes, absolutely, it's a great way to compare prices of other providers. I expect other providers to cost more to cover additional expenses for ups / proper facilities, but after factoring that in, the prices they offer can be similar, if they want them to be.

    For example, if FDC is charging $1500 for a full gig port, I might expect another provider in the same region could make a similar profit margin selling me the same thing for around $2000, but at a higher level of quality, facilities, etc. Again, if FDC is charging $750 for a given amount of rackspace, I might expect similar rackspace in the same market to cost $1000 to $1250 at a different provider who has more of the kinds of things you would want in a quality colocation provider, assuming they are a large enough provider to have good economies of scale.
    IOFLOOD.com -- We Love Servers
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  8. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    No, they do not, since they do not have a UPS at all.
    wow wow wow wow.

    From their website, it appears that they are a high end, high capacity provider with amazing pricing.

    sigh.

  9. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiky View Post
    There was zero downtime at their facility with that maintenance.

    The power feeds to our colocated servers had 100% power uptime since their installation in 2008 in FDC Chicago. The same cannot be said for our hardware in 365Main, Burst, ThePlanet.. We recently pulled our servers out from their facility due to hardware consolidation, so we saw their DC first hand..
    Our servers have ambient temperature monitoring in them, and only twice have they gone above 80F, and was only for brief periods of time. Despite the "uglyness" of FDC, their staff has wonderful support and we had zero issues with their normal staff(Their abuse department is dreadful to deal with). Tickets we have filed for support have been answered anywhere from 45 seconds after creation(and being resolved), to about an hour.

    Karl, your comments in this thread are very inappropriate and completely unprofessional-- especially as the Steadfast CEO. Considering your own UPS systems failed and caused downtime last year, you have no rights to comment on the operation of other companies, especially when their uptime and service surpasses yours.
    I've dealt with Karl, toured his facility in Chicago and met his staff...

    I can say it is a well run place over there. Oh, my server has been online for a while too:

    -----
    # uptime
    14:45:52 up 307 days, 8:06, 1 user, load average: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00
    -----

    Steadfast has great support response times. Network is good too. Never had a single report of downtime. Of course I don't use the box much.

    I've never dealt with FDC and I wouldn't trash them without actually using them. I can say though, that the pics I've seen in this thread means I would likely never put anything I cared about with them. WOW.

    Messy cabling... ok.

    But... duct taped psu's hanging out of a desktop case?

    Mobo's floating free in chassis?

    PC case fans taped to a passive cpu cooler?

    Drives taped together?

    Maybe if you had your own private cage with your own gear...

    FDC seems to get decent reviews so that's a good sign that they are run by good people. Just their priorities are in a different place than mine.

  10. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by KarlZimmer View Post
    My comments are specifically related to how FDC cannot be used as a baseline cost for the cost of what most people would consider to be a data center.
    So why are they not considered a datacenter? They have all the requirements needed (Power, Servers, Core networking, Bandwidth, Cooling..). They may not be running Liebert equipment, use under-floor wiring, hot+cold isles with floor ventilation, own backup generators and battery-based backups.. but they also do not offer a SLA for uptime, network speed, bandwidth delivered, or support times.

    They target a specific segment of the hosting market-- specifically the ones who just want a server and a fat pipe. You target the business oriented customer who demands and requires their servers to be up, have a stable connection, and a guarantee that your company will keep their servers up.

    We are probably mis-interpreting each others posts, however my point was to state that they are as much of a datacenter as you regardless of operating methods. They target the low-end customers(those customers get what they pay for, and sometimes get fantastic value for what they pay), and you target the higher end customers(in which your customers receive your promises of uptime and service).

  11. #61
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    1,635
    That card board server is just pure .... sigh classic.

    This is what I think of FDC now...thx Karl.

    That made my day..off to sleep!

    By the way who is monitoring doing any kind of inspection on these data centers anyway? Is there no such thing for the DC industry??

  12. #62
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
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    Quote Originally Posted by Quiky View Post
    So why are they not considered a datacenter? They have all the requirements needed (Power, Servers, Core networking, Bandwidth, Cooling..). They may not be running Liebert equipment, use under-floor wiring, hot+cold isles with floor ventilation, own backup generators and battery-based backups.. but they also do not offer a SLA for uptime, network speed, bandwidth delivered, or support times.

    They target a specific segment of the hosting market-- specifically the ones who just want a server and a fat pipe. You target the business oriented customer who demands and requires their servers to be up, have a stable connection, and a guarantee that your company will keep their servers up.

    We are probably mis-interpreting each others posts, however my point was to state that they are as much of a datacenter as you regardless of operating methods. They target the low-end customers(those customers get what they pay for, and sometimes get fantastic value for what they pay), and you target the higher end customers(in which your customers receive your promises of uptime and service).
    Yes, I am certainly not saying no one should use them or they shouldn't be in business. There are people who are perfectly fine with those standards, they just want things cheap. Hell, I've sent a number of people to FDC and if you need a lot of cheap bandiwdth at a low price, they're the best at that. You simply need to understand what you're getting into and what it means to be at those price points.

    I know we're in a different market than FDC, but our customers would be amazingly upset at those conditions and configurations. I understand it is fine with some, but don't believe it meets the standards of most, that is ny point. It just upsets me when people seem to expect
    the same pricing level with UPS and generator, a proper rackmount environment, etc. Sorry
    if I went a bit off there.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  13. #63
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    London, United Kingdom
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    390
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiky View Post
    So why are they not considered a datacenter? They have all the requirements needed (Power, Servers, Core networking, Bandwidth, Cooling..). They may not be running Liebert equipment, use under-floor wiring, hot+cold isles with floor ventilation, own backup generators and battery-based backups.. but they also do not offer a SLA for uptime, network speed, bandwidth delivered, or support times.

    They target a specific segment of the hosting market-- specifically the ones who just want a server and a fat pipe. You target the business oriented customer who demands and requires their servers to be up, have a stable connection, and a guarantee that your company will keep their servers up.

    We are probably mis-interpreting each others posts, however my point was to state that they are as much of a datacenter as you regardless of operating methods. They target the low-end customers(those customers get what they pay for, and sometimes get fantastic value for what they pay), and you target the higher end customers(in which your customers receive your promises of uptime and service).
    There is cheap and then there is dangerous. The other residents of the building should know about what FDC is doing here. Looks like a serious fire hazard to me.

    FDC = Fire Dept Callout?

  14. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ashburn VA, San Diego CA
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    4,615
    Quote Originally Posted by Quiky View Post
    So why are they not considered a datacenter? They have all the requirements needed (Power, Servers, Core networking, Bandwidth, Cooling..). They may not be running Liebert equipment, use under-floor wiring, hot+cold isles with floor ventilation, own backup generators and battery-based backups.. but they also do not offer a SLA for uptime, network speed, bandwidth delivered, or support times.
    Just because my basement would count as a 'datacenter' by your definition, doesn't mean paying customers should be hosted in it, nor that I should be exempt from local fire codes should I choose to do so.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    446
    Anyone even contacted the building manager they rent from or the fire department?

  16. #66
    Heh it's like going to a tabloid magazine where you can see a papparazi taking a picture of a celebrity in a bad pair of shoes.

    But as always "assuming". Have you thought to your self why in the hell have it in a cardboard box instead of a normal case since it's taking over 2 systems? The reason is simple the system had a PSU failure and since it's a miniATX atom box, we were testing to make sure it's the PSU since we were out of Atom cases. We had the system in the cardboard box so it would not short circuit to test with a new psu.

    I think as a customer having your system up and working would be more important then it being pretty, so instead of waiting for 3-4 days until the new shipment of PSUs get in.

    Tim

  17. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigy View Post
    Heh it's like going to a tabloid magazine where you can see a papparazi taking a picture of a celebrity in a bad pair of shoes.

    But as always "assuming". Have you thought to your self why in the hell have it in a cardboard box instead of a normal case since it's taking over 2 systems? The reason is simple the system had a PSU failure and since it's a miniATX atom box, we were testing to make sure it's the PSU since we were out of Atom cases. We had the system in the cardboard box so it would not short circuit to test with a new psu.

    I think as a customer having your system up and working would be more important then it being pretty, so instead of waiting for 3-4 days until the new shipment of PSUs get in.

    Tim
    Hey Tim,

    First, I applaud you for getting your clients server online. I myself have, several times; jerry rigged a server to get it running asap with spare parts. Heck I have 2 servers with the lids off right now in my private cage just to get the client up and running, so I completely understand.

    Honestly, if the server in the cardboard box was the only thing that was out of place, I would have chalked it up to a tech working hard to get a machine online... however, the holes cut out in the back of the box to route cables and the label is a whee bit too much for me (it screams permanency) - I would have just plopped the board on a static bag or something. I mean, it's not like you should forget what server is running out of a cardboard box and need to label it!

    But even ignoring that server you have to admit, in that page full of pics there are some pretty horrible things going on.

    I can almost overlook the messy cables... I can overlook the fans in the aisles... I can't get past the passive heatsinks with desktop fans electrical taped on for cooling. The motherboards hanging loose in the chassis, the drives taped together, the psu duct taped to the desktop chassis, and so on and so on.

    That to me screams "I don't care about my hardware". It's a recipe for disaster man. Maybe you just colo there, maybe you take better care of your gear but wow, there are some real "wtf's" in that DC man.

    So yah, for people who think that comparing FDC's colo pricing to Steadfast is a fair comparison is ignorant (or blind).

  18. #68
    lostmind,

    First of all thank you for having some prospective on things. In regards to why a box not a static-free bag I would personally use a box anytime since if someone worked on the system right next to it they have the chance of moving it off the static bag. The reason it's labeled is to keep it recognized so the NOC techs won't call it the "cardboard box" call it whatever you wanna call it.

    I'm not here to defend FDC I'm sure they have their take on this. I defended what I saw pertaining to sharktech. I can also tell you our wiring is not the neatest there is but I've worked and toured tens of rack styled dc's in my life If you have the time to keep the network wires tidy then I'm really happy you have the time for it. But look behind any rackmount cabinet and see the wire mess for your self anywhere that servers have to be pulled in/out constantly.

    All our network equipment at sharkteh are 100% managed and MOST (over 70%) of our network is vlanned (what is not vlanned we have robust enough routers that can hold our ARP table and configured properly not to broadcast traffic).

    From what I know is that server with the ducttape is for a colo customer that FDC's NOC had to rig in an ATX PSU to get the system up until the customer had to ship a different PSU/Tower.

    But you know what .... in a datacenter with over 4000 servers things like that WILL happen unless you want your colo customer to go dead in the water for a few days until the new PSU is delivered.

    We at sharktech do twice a year whole network wiring cleanup and we notify the customers it effects of 2-3 minutes downtime as the cables are rerouted.

    I must admit the last month we are almost at capacity at our Chicago Facility and the recent surge in new customers we've been receiving may have caused us togo non-kosher in some situations but we always go back and clean our mess when things slow down.

  19. #69
    Hello WHTers,

    I would like to chime in about FDC, this picture story and life in general.

    First let me say that I do not follow WHT and I hope I am not breaking any rules. This thread was brought to my attention by my co-worker who has been here for years.
    I have been thinking long and hard for last few days whether to post here or not since I am risking a legal action because I have signed employee NDA with parties mentioned in this thread. Having said that I will only post this one message. My goal here is to offer a perspective people might not be seeing , little bit of insider information and what people sometimes do to each other online.

    Did anyone wonder how these pictures were obtained and why they show only crappy looking stuff ? There is this person, calls him sell Mike/Paul Bailey (google worried@gmail.com) who is a buddy of Karl Zimmerman and employee of Steadfast. Well Mr. Bailey has ordered $49 service from FDC for few weeks just to gain the access to the datacenter to snap pictures of whatever looks out of place. Also just to show you the mind set of Mr. Bailey read some of his tickets bellow (tickets were provide by a friend of mine who still works at FDC)

    Now about FDC's DC setup.

    Are they tierIV facility ? NO
    Are they rough around the edges ? DEFINITELY
    Do they use fans and accessories that you don`t typically see at other datacenters ? YES
    Do they try to hide the way they run they datacenter ? NO . They actually provide tours (at least they did when they had the space available) and people see what they go into and many of them sign up after seeing the place.
    Should servers be running from a card board or should power supplies be hanging out of the case ? NO . However, knowing FDC, they go out of their way to help their customers even if it looks messy and usually those solutions are temporary until the client gets replacement in. You can make an argument that you do not want to be in a datacenter like that or you can make an argument that you want to be there because they will do things for you other datacenters would not allow.

    Now about the actual pictures

    As I said Mr. Bailey selected only pictures that look bad. Why did he not post any of the cabinets with RACK servers ? Those looked OK last time I was at the datacenter. Why did he not take pictures of the other 2 server rooms? The pictures he taken are from FDC's oldest server room that was setup 7-8 years ago. As far as I know FDC has around 4000 servers at Chicago Board of Trade and the newer rooms look better. Not to mention their new datacenter in Denver.
    FDC has gone through a learning curve over last 8 years in terms of running a DC and running a network and I am sure there are many people on WHT will agree it has been for the better, not worse. Otherwise they would not be sold out.


    About life in general

    Read the tickets bellow and see how some people think and operate. I don not know how many of you here dealt with FDC-Phill but I have. He has been with FDC for years covering the graveyard shift (not an easy shift). He has been nothing but courteous and extra helpful beyond what comes with unmanaged servers.
    Another point I would like to make is about Karl Zimmerman. I have dealt/worked for folks from FDC, Steadfast, Singlehop, GiGenet, server central and other Chicago datacenters before I relocated out of Illinois. I have never seen any other datacenter or their owners publicly bash their competition like Mr. Zimmerman has. Simple use of the "search" feature on WHT will show you posts where Mr. Zimmerman goes after FDC, GiGenet and others. I am not sure if it a result of being over competitive, envious, immaturity, mental issue or something else but to me it is very unprofessional. I have been in hosting business for over 30 years and after spending last couple days browsing WHT and seeing posts made by Mr. Zimmerman I really do feel sorry for him.


    TICKET #1


    Client

    From: Paul Bailey
    worried@gmail.com
    Split
    Received on Oct/04/2009 5:45:36AM
    Hi!
    I ****ed up some stuff and need a reboot. IP address is 208.53.170.130 DO IT thanks bye!!!!!
    Reply | Reply & Quote

    Staff

    From: Phillip S
    phill@fdcservers.net
    Split
    Sent to Paul Bailey on Oct/04/2009 5:49:52AM
    Your server has been rebooted. Please wait 15-20 minutes for the server to come
    back up. Please reopen this ticket and provide login information for this
    server if it does not come back online.
    --
    _____________________________________
    Phillip S.
    FDCServers.net Technical Support
    VDS Administrator
    Reply | Reply & Quote


    Ticket #2


    Client

    From: Paul Bailey
    worried@gmail.com
    Split
    Received on Oct/03/2009 2:25:39AM
    Hi,
    Please change the reverse dns on 208.53.170.130 to reflect the hostname of ****ingshit.photos.cx.
    Reply | Reply & Quote

    Staff

    From: Phillip S
    phill@fdcservers.net
    Split
    Sent to Paul Bailey on Oct/03/2009 4:30:43AM
    For reverse authority over your IPs, please provide the following:

    Put your ips in the following format:

    subnet: 66.90.68

    69 IN NS ns2.blah.com. <--- put dot
    70 IN NS ns2.blah.com. <--- put dot


    OR you can supply us with the PTR entires.

    Please do so in this format:
    Subnet 66.90.112

    4 IN PTR blah.domain.com. <--- put dot
    5 IN PTR another.domain.com. <--- put dot

    Thank you,
    --
    _____________________________________
    Phillip S.
    FDCServers.net Technical Support
    VDS Administrator
    Reply | Reply & Quote

    Client

    From: Paul Bailey
    worried@gmail.com
    Split
    Received on Oct/04/2009 12:50:53AM
    130 IN PTR lazysupport.fdcservers.net.
    Reply | Reply & Quote

    Client

    From: Paul Bailey
    worried@gmail.com
    Split
    Received on Oct/04/2009 12:57:34AM
    Actually, let's make it:

    Subnet: 208.153.170

    130 IN PTR
    ip130.208-153-170.phillip.is.fat.stupid.and.lazy.working.in.a.ghettoass.datacenter.that.should.be.shut.down.by.the.fire.department.photos.cx.
    Reply | Reply & Quote

    Client

    From: Paul Bailey
    worried@gmail.com
    Split
    Received on Oct/04/2009 1:03:28AM
    i have setup the A record on my side.

    happy reading

    -G

  20. #70
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    652
    lol. I'd like to see Steadfast's reply to this.
    Justin Yancey | Northern Virginia & District of Columbia | https://www.linkedin.com/in/justinyancey

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Worldwide
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    150
    I'm heading in there within a few weeks to do some quarterly maintenance on some of our colo gear at FDC, so ... maybe I'll swing on over to Karl's so I can pick apart their facility and find every little flaw so I can post them here on WHT.

    Anyways, as far as I can tell those are SHARKTECH IPs and SHARKTECH Space. So what seems to be the big deal? I know our space doesn't look like theirs, and I've never seen anything like that throughout FDC's facility.

    They do a good job in my opinion, their support/staff is great. Be it while at the dc or over the ticket system - they always going out of their way to help me.

    Either way, I feel as FDC is getting better and better as time goes on. Sure 5 years ago it was a bit iffy but that's long ago and those problems have since gone away. Not to mention I've had better stability on FDC's network than I've had with providers who use Steadfast for transit & space. Go figure.

  22. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by sticky View Post
    I'm heading in there within a few weeks to do some quarterly maintenance on some of our colo gear at FDC, so ... maybe I'll swing on over to Karl's so I can pick apart their facility and find every little flaw so I can post them here on WHT.

    Anyways, as far as I can tell those are SHARKTECH IPs and SHARKTECH Space. So what seems to be the big deal? I know our space doesn't look like theirs, and I've never seen anything like that throughout FDC's facility.

    They do a good job in my opinion, their support/staff is great. Be it while at the dc or over the ticket system - they always going out of their way to help me.

    Either way, I feel as FDC is getting better and better as time goes on. Sure 5 years ago it was a bit iffy but that's long ago and those problems have since gone away. Not to mention I've had better stability on FDC's network than I've had with providers who use Steadfast for transit & space. Go figure.
    You must have skipped past most of this thread. The issue with FDC is they are not "little flaws" they are "major" flaws. Picking apart "little" flaws at Karl's ain't going to mean much.

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,957
    sticky, come on over, I'll be more than happy to give you a tour. As for pictures, I can allow you to take pictures of our own equipment, but we do not allow pictures to be taken of customer equipment unless permission has been given. Contact me directly and we can schedule a tour, etc. Also, mind saying who the provider using our transit, etc. was? I wouldn't be surprised if you're referencing the customer who has a history of paying significantly late, hence the downtime...

    Then, it seems people are still taking my point entirely wrong. I am defining differences in service because it had been mentioned to use FDC for baseline cost. I was specifically responding to the idea that FDC's pricing was a standard for the Chicago market, being a direct reflection on the pricing/services offered by all Chicago hosts, including myself. Since then, funkywizard clarified what was meant, and I agree with his overall assessment, that yes, if you need higher level services expect to pay more, if you're expecting more for less the deal is likely too good to be true. FDC's prices are SIGNIFICANTLY lower than ours, so the data center specs, etc. are not going to be up to my standards, that is expected. The intention is certainly not to bash FDC, it is to show different levels of service. Now, if FDC is open about these things anyway, then what does it matter that I am saying them? FDC has their market, their customer base proves that, but those customers and potential future customers also have the right to know the data center conditions, to be provided with as much information to make a good decision as possible.

    As far as "bashing" overall. I do not go out of my way to bash a competitor. I will also not chose to withhold information from the general public simply because the information is regarding a competitor. The companies I have had issues with are CIHost, who was robbed three times and has since shutdown Chicago operations and completely rebranded, and AlphaRed, who has declared bankruptcy. When companies are ripping people off, I am going to speak out, simple as that. I do not filter my opinions, I really don't care what is politically correct or "proper" if I have something to say, I'll say it. Whatever opinion you hold of me because of that, you're free to hold it, but I'm not planning to change anytime soon. Now, if you want to say negative things about my company that are true, go for it. I'm not going to contact the moderators to have it removed or complain, even if you are a competitor. I'll likely respond to provide our side of the story, that is all.

    As far as FDC, I have been in more threads recommending FDC to people for various uses than "bashing" them. With FDC, I was a customer of theirs, I have been in their facilities, I have employees who used to work at FDC, thus I am familiar with their overall operations. I recommend people go to them, and I give people information to make their own informed decisions. I do not make personal attacks, I do not make up information or go off rumors, the same cannot be said about Petr at FDC. Then when people say that FDC has had greater uptime than us, I am going to respond. When someone says FDC has fully redundant power, I am going to respond. When someone says FDC's data center is comparable to ours or a standard to base data centers on, I will respond. If I see incorrect data being spread, I am going to correct it and if I have something positive to add about competitors I will do that as well. If you do see something incorrect about what I've said, I have no issue admitting fault and apologizing.

    Now, as far as Gigenet, I have to admit, I don't recall ever saying something negative about them here on WHT or in private discussion. I've talked with Ameen somewhat regularly, have had dinner and beers with him on many occassions, have defended them or recommended them a dozen+ times here on WHT, and overall have great respect for them. Here is a line from early 2008 "Gigenet is one of the few data centers we refer people to. They're good people, do good work, and I have a lot of respect for them." I've been going through threads, and the most negative thing I've found that I've said about them is that I thought they weren't carrier neutral, just as I wouldn't say we're carrier neutral.

    You will find that I get along with a VAST majority of our competitors, such as Gigenet (as mentioned above), ServerCentral (have lunch with Jordan Lowe fairly regularly), SingleHop (We had a cage next to them in Equinix and have had various discussions with Zak, Dan, and Andy), WiredTree (many years ago we were looking at partnering on a facility), DedicatedNow (talk regularly over IM, etc.), WireSix (again, regular communication over IM), etc. I have attended every HostingCon and always enjoy the company of our competitors. The relationship with FDC is certainly not the norm, I simply don't get the same warm welcome from Petr at FDC, never have, and have been personally attacked (not physically) by him. Even then, I have still spent more time referring people to FDC and have never once told someone that they should not go with FDC, that FDC has any evil intentions, etc. They have a different business model than us, and sometimes that ends up in confusion which needs to be corrected, simple as that.

    Note: Regarding the pictures, I did not know who took them, a staff member (not Mike) had told me about them. It seems it may have been insinuated I was behind the taking of them, but that is not true in any manner. In addition, I do not see how the personal business of one of our staff members and his ticket with FDC really has any bearing on anything. Why has someone's private discussion, who has had no involvement in this discussion, been posted in public? The technical support levels offered by FDC have never been in question.
    Last edited by KarlZimmer; 02-27-2010 at 09:31 AM.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,531
    Personally I think FDC deserve a round of applause in all fairness. I wish I come up with the idea A few years ago...
    They don’t claim to be anything that they are not; we could see this by the willingness to allow tours of the facility. And I have even seen pictures on their own site.
    Obviously they have found a market, filled 2 data centres and have a waiting list for them, also starting their 3rd data centre; you know something must be going right.
    I don’t really get why other data centres want to publicly bash them. They aren’t a competitor; you’re not even in the same market.
    Someone considering paying for FDC collocation is very rarely going to be persuaded to collocate at your SAS70 N+N facility for 5 times the price...
    Also I would like to point out I am not "bashing" Karl or anyone specific with this post.
    BotWars.io - Code the AI of your Battle Bot!

  25. #75
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,957
    Quote Originally Posted by Jigy View Post
    I must admit the last month we are almost at capacity at our Chicago Facility and the recent surge in new customers we've been receiving may have caused us togo non-kosher in some situations but we always go back and clean our mess when things slow down.
    I certainly understand the need to get a customer back up quickly, and certainly understand that things aren't always done to spec. Thank you for the explanation and well reasoned response. That should give all viewers a good idea of what to expect and the service levels provided. They are what they are, nothing notably good or bad, just information provided to allow people to make good decisions.
    Karl Zimmerman - Founder & CEO of Steadfast
    VMware Virtual Data Center Platform

    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation

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