Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Cloud Hosting : Cloud VPS Advantages, Disadvantages and Data Security

[Web Aurum]

Hi there, I struggle with some questions and this place seems to be the right one to ask them. What advantages and disadvantages has cloud VPS hosting (with dedicated resources: CPU, Ram) when compared to 100% dedicated? And what about data security when hosting at VPS with cloud storage. Isn't dedicated better for data safety (whole hdd mine and only mine)? And also is cloud VPS good for hosting a forum, or I will get better performance with dedicated.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

[kimper]

Here is a small definition of Cloud Hosting :

Cloud web hosting is a term generally used to describe any web hosting that makes use of a network of servers to simultaneously transfer data through a network of sites without any noticeable limits. The hosting company programs a network of servers to work in unison to provide server resources to your site with ease. With cloud hosting, you do not have to worry about the limitations of one web server. You can even set up your own computing network if you have access to the software configuration of several dedicated servers but this is recommended only if you are an advanced user. The billing standard is usually on a per usage basis meaning that you would only be allocated a specific amount of server resources. If you use additional resources, you would be charged based on how much you used. As a result of the billing system, you only have to pay for what you use and there is no need to worry about having too many unnecessary server resources. Cloud hosting is only recommended if you are in need of a robust hosting for your site.

So, the advantages of cloud compared to 100 % dedicated are :
- You use the resources you need. You can adjust them without shutting down your server.
- When you have unused resources, you will not need to pay for them.
- The cloud server is a virtual server using resources of multiple machines. In result, if a machine comes down, your website will be still up and running.
So, when it is 100 % dedicated, you have the following problems :
- If you take a more performant server than you need, you will have to pay for unused resources.
- If you want to upgrade your server RAM or HD, you will need to shut down the server, open it and add memory (operation done by the datacenter, but need to take your website and mail offline for at lease 30 minutes).
- If there is a problem with the HD, or a service, your website (and other services probably) becomes unavailable.
- Finally, the 100% dedicated costs more than cloud hosting.

[wasatch]

Both are great solutions and both have their advantages. I'll let someone else take a stab at the advantages of dedicated servers.

I think the biggest advantage of VPS Cloud hosting is the instant scalability and flexibility it can provide. If you are just starting a hosting forum you can't go wrong either way. You might save a little more money if you decide to start on a VPS Cloud so that you can scale your resources more easily with your business needs. Some cloud providers offer great redundancy and fail-over capabilities in their cloud environment.

[smerz]

Finally, the 100% dedicated costs more than cloud hosting.

I think this needs to be looked at in a more differentiated way.

For example traffic is mostly cheaper with dedicated servers.

[kimper]

Originally Posted by smerz

I think this needs to be looked at in a more differentiated way.

For example traffic is mostly cheaper with dedicated servers.

Yes, but is not a big advantage since the most web hosts do not metter the traffic between servers in the same cloud. They only metter and limit the outgoing traffic to visitors and external servers.

[CloudWeb]

Originally Posted by Web Aurum

Hi there, I struggle with some questions and this place seems to be the right one to ask them. What advantages and disadvantages has cloud VPS hosting (with dedicated resources: CPU, Ram) when compared to 100% dedicated? And what about data security when hosting at VPS with cloud storage. Isn't dedicated better for data safety (whole hdd mine and only mine)? And also is cloud VPS good for hosting a forum, or I will get better performance with dedicated.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

If you asked me a few months ago, I'd still say Dedicated has some advantages. Today, Cloud is gone above and beyond my expectations and does everything you need and more.

Dedicated resources? It's all relative. You can have an entire server's worth of resources in Cloud. Look at the specs.. compare apples to apples. Ie: Nehalem vs Nehalem processor's. One technology may or may not be faster but that is mostly going to be dependent on what the technology is using.

Security? Many storage infrastructure's for Cloud and/or VPS Cloud is using a variety of technologies to secure that data which may or may not include encryption. Just ask the host about this but generally it's not a concern for any modern technology.

Obviously I'm very pro-cloud, but I've been around a long time and for your application you would have many benefits in a Cloud environment over a single Dedicated server. It's all about the technology and like comparing a dedicated server from company X to company Y, Cloud is the same. Not all things Cloud are equal.

[kimper]

Originally Posted by CloudWeb

If you asked me a few months ago, I'd still say Dedicated has some advantages. Today, Cloud is gone above and beyond my expectations and does everything you need and more.

Dedicated resources? It's all relative. You can have an entire server's worth of resources in Cloud. Look at the specs.. compare apples to apples. Ie: Nehalem vs Nehalem processor's. One technology may or may not be faster but that is mostly going to be dependent on what the technology is using.

Security? Many storage infrastructure's for Cloud and/or VPS Cloud is using a variety of technologies to secure that data which may or may not include encryption. Just ask the host about this but generally it's not a concern for any modern technology.

Obviously I'm very pro-cloud, but I've been around a long time and for your application you would have many benefits in a Cloud environment over a single Dedicated server. It's all about the technology and like comparing a dedicated server from company X to company Y, Cloud is the same. Not all things Cloud are equal.

I agree with you at 100%.
What about the cost ?

[CloudWeb]

Originally Posted by kimper

I agree with you at 100%.
What about the cost ?

When comparing the exact same hardware specifications of a "Cloud Server" (I guess we should call it something), and a Dedicated Server, the Cloud Server is of course going to cost more, but as far as how much would entirely depend on the provider.

[kimper]

Originally Posted by CloudWeb

When comparing the exact same hardware specifications of a "Cloud Server" (I guess we should call it something), and a Dedicated Server, the Cloud Server is of course going to cost more, but as far as how much would entirely depend on the provider.

But when you know that 99% of dedicated server users over-estimate their needs, I think that with cloud, they can save money ?

[Web Aurum]

Thank you for your posts, I really appreciate it.

[CloudWeb]

Originally Posted by kimper

But when you know that 99% of dedicated server users over-estimate their needs, I think that with cloud, they can save money ?

If they actually buy less resources, then yes. They should be able to tell pretty quick just how much they need, then can scale down or up the resources as necessary.

[scyllar]

very informative posts subscribing
Could anyone name a few cloud providers with rock solid service and affordable price for beginners like me, please. Really appreciate it.

[kattare]

I'd like to know, from one of the cloud providers here, where your limit is to the scalability of the cloud. Eg:

The fastest networked storage I am aware of is 10 Gbps. (10 giga bits = 1.25 giga BYTES) To actually achieve this thruput, every storage node and every compute node and every switch would need a 10 Gbps port, no? Yet a single SATA link is capable of 6 Gbps ( = 0.75 giga BYTES) and an Intel SSD can do 250 MB/s = 0.25 giga BYTES, so it only takes 5-6 cheap 2.5" drives to outstrip the speed of an entire shared storage array providing storage for an entire cloud?

SAN: 1.25 GB/s
6 x cheap SSD's: 1.50 GB/s

And how many CPU's can you give my instance? Can you give it CPU's spanning multiple compute nodes? Or am I limited to just the cpu of a single compute node at any given time? IE, if your compute nodes are each 8 cores, can you give me a 64 core instance?

Ditto with the RAM. If your compute nodes each have 64 GB RAM, can I get an instance with more than that? Say I want 256 GB RAM?

Seems to me like right now a single dedicated server outstrips and outperforms what most clouds can do at their peak, and if I'm really worried about the redundancy, I can just deploy a mirror of my dedicated with heartbeat, drbd, mysql replication, repcached, etc and be good to go?

Or am I missing something? Can someone check my math? I gotta be, because from where I'm standing a dedicated server spanks a cloud in price/performance every time?

[cartika-andrew]

Originally Posted by Web Aurum

Hi there, I struggle with some questions and this place seems to be the right one to ask them. What advantages and disadvantages has cloud VPS hosting (with dedicated resources: CPU, Ram) when compared to 100% dedicated? And what about data security when hosting at VPS with cloud storage. Isn't dedicated better for data safety (whole hdd mine and only mine)? And also is cloud VPS good for hosting a forum, or I will get better performance with dedicated.

Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

Ideally, you would use the right solution for the right job. A cloud based server for web service, and a local storage model for mysql.

Originally Posted by kattare

The fastest networked storage I am aware of is 10 Gbps. (10 giga bits = 1.25 giga BYTES) To actually achieve this thruput, every storage node and every compute node and every switch would need a 10 Gbps port, no? Yet a single SATA link is capable of 6 Gbps ( = 0.75 giga BYTES) and an Intel SSD can do 250 MB/s = 0.25 giga BYTES, so it only takes 5-6 cheap 2.5" drives to outstrip the speed of an entire shared storage array providing storage for an entire cloud?

You can achieve higher total throughputs, but, you are correct - the cloud can never achieve the same performance of a local storage model. The again, a local storage model can never give you the redundancy, elasticity and scalability of a cloud - and especially not anywhere near the price. It is certainly give and take

And how many CPU's can you give my instance? Can you give it CPU's spanning multiple compute nodes? Or am I limited to just the cpu of a single compute node at any given time? IE, if your compute nodes are each 8 cores, can you give me a 64 core instance?

Ditto with the RAM. If your compute nodes each have 64 GB RAM, can I get an instance with more than that? Say I want 256 GB RAM?

Are you running software or applications that are compliant with this?

Typically, you would be limited to the limits of a single host node. Lets say 24 vCPUs and 96 GB of RAM. The advantage though is if you need that many resources, you could get them, without issue as your instances would be fluid between physical nodes.

I imagine you will see CPU and RAM spanning multiple physical servers on single instances, once the related software and applications and compliant with such things.

Seems to me like right now a single dedicated server outstrips and outperforms what most clouds can do at their peak,

Well, A single dedicated server cannot provide elasticity and redundancy - performance wise, it will likely win. Though, A low end dedicated server without RAID or RAID1 or RAID5 with IDE or SATA drives - will probably not come anywhere near outperforming a cloud based on RAID10 and SAS drives on an enterprise grade SAN. So, you really need to look at higher end dedicated servers before you would see a real performance increase on a dedicated vs a Cloud. So unless you actually need more then 4 vCPUs and 8 GB RAM or so - you are likely MUCH better off in a local storage Xen or VMWARE VPS model, vs a lower end dedicated.

and if I'm really worried about the redundancy, I can just deploy a mirror of my dedicated with heartbeat, drbd, mysql replication, repcached, etc and be good to go?

and what is the actual cost of this? complexities in management, etc? this is why "cloud hosting" is thriving. You can get all of the benefits of high availability, gain elasticity and do it at a fraction of the cost. The one downside, is a performance hit vs good dedicated servers. Ideally, as I said above, you would use a combination of technologies. A basic cluster, where web service is on the cloud, and mysql service is on a local storage XEN or VMWARE based VPS. You get the best of both worlds - and likely less then a single dedicated server would cost..

because from where I'm standing a dedicated server spanks a cloud in price/performance every time?

I apologize, but, your math is off. You just need to better understand what the cost of dedicated servers are.. GOOD dedicated servers - RAID10, will beat a cloud on performance - but, on absolutely nothing else.

End of the day - right technology for the right job.. it really is that simple..

[cartika-andrew]

Originally Posted by cartika-andrew

Are you running software or applications that are compliant with this?

Typically, you would be limited to the limits of a single host node. Lets say 24 vCPUs and 96 GB of RAM. The advantage though is if you need that many resources, you could get them, without issue as your instances would be fluid between physical nodes.

I imagine you will see CPU and RAM spanning multiple physical servers on single instances, once the related software and applications and compliant with such things.

feel strange quoting myself..

but, to correct myself - you can certainly look for providers that have built their clouds out on mainframe computing systems. I think you can get up to 1000 vCPUs (if not more) and a petabyte of RAM on a single physical server these days. I am not sure if anyone is delivering a cloud in this manner commercially yet - but, it will eventually happen - I know we have talked about it.