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  1. #166
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    India
    Posts
    429
    I agree with abhisri.

    Burstnet should have warned the customer and allowed him to take action against his client within a reasonable time frame. (or)

    Silently given the info to Law Enforcement and allowed them to deal with the customer.

    Policing 73,000 blogs for content is no joke. It is impractical to expect any one to do this.

    The best would have been to alert the customer that there is a blog with objectionable content and ask the customer to take action - the customer could have given the necessary info to law enforcement.

    Burstnet either of this. Instead, they took law into their own hands and disconnected the client. This is not the correct thing to do at all.

    I wonder whether all the US hosts are so paranoid that they behave in this stupid fashion.

    Shame on Burstnet.

    I am GLAD I do not have a server in the US.
    "For I know the plans I have for you" declares our Lord Jesus Christ, "they are plans to prosper you, to give you a hope and a future and not to destroy you." - Jeremiah 29:11
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  2. #167
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    India
    Posts
    429
    Also the fact that Burstnet has not given the data back to the customer is terrible. Yes the customer should have had backups. But Burstnet should have given the customer the data back. That is the most ethical thing to do.

    Let the customer take the data and host elsewhere. Burstnet has no right to hold the customer's data hostage.

    Shame on BURSTNET.
    "For I know the plans I have for you" declares our Lord Jesus Christ, "they are plans to prosper you, to give you a hope and a future and not to destroy you." - Jeremiah 29:11
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  3. #168
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Huntersville, NC
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by abhisri View Post
    From what I can gather, there are only two possibilities. One, they loss his data and cooked up a terrorism story to cover their behind.
    Fact of the matter is, we have a ToS and AUP that every customer agrees to upon ordering:

    * You must RESPOND to all complaints within a clearly defined time frame or risk being suspended or terminated
    * You must provide a 24x7 point of contact
    * You are responsible for your own backups

    By Blogetery.com own admission, whether here on WHT, in the media, or in responses to our tickets:

    * He tried his best to respond to complaints within the window, however did not always do so. Twice this required a 2nd notice. The last abuse notification (before the FBI notice) he received (April) resulted in a suspension lasting over 3 days (Any of the angry blog owners wish to comment?).
    * His excuse to us for the April suspension was that he was on a snowboarding trip and missed the repeated alerts. This time (as reported by the NY Times) he was on a camping trip. This does not suit our 24x7 contact requirement.
    * If he truly cared for his users, why did he not implement a backup plan? Especially after he was suspended in April? Another interesting note, he had two tickets open for a HD replacement at the beginning of April. I would assume he had some sort of backup then.

    His data is fully intact. We have every intention of returning it to him and are in the process of working out the details.

    Here is a question for WHT users, based on the following what would you have done differently?

    We received an emergency request for contact information for the siteís owner from the FBI on July 9th. The letter claims links to content containing a hit list and instruction/tips on making bombs. The letter states we may choose to terminate the URLs. You verify that the links exist. So, now what?

    This is what we did:

    We immediately reviewed the servers history. We checked to see if we had a support password and could gain access to server. In this case, no, we donít have access. Even if we could, can you imagine the ruckus if the media and freedom of speech folks had found out the BurstNET was selectively editing peoples blogs? We then looked at his abuse history and saw that he has a history of not responding in a timely fashion. Due to the seriousness of the matter this leads us to an our next conundrum, do we simply issue an abuse notification to him and hope he responds or run the risk that he will not. Based on his own admission to the media, and the fact he didnít respond to the termination notice until July 11th (he states the 12th), he would in fact not respond. So what then? Leave the server online? What is the potential liability to BurstNET and ultimately our other customers if in fact someone acted upon the hit list?

    Now as far as the data goes, we were waiting for clarification on a couple of things. One being what is the legality of BurstNET knowingly allowing the transfer of potentially illegal content. Not just terrorist, but copyrighted material. Two, since there was some confusion as to the FBIís letter, could we even give him access to this data? If this was the beginning of a criminal investigation, what kind of issues would this create? Also, since we only had examples of pages with the links and no shell access to the server, how would we know ď73000Ē blogs are hosted here?

    It was Blogetery.comís choice to go public via webhosting talk not ours. When he finally responded to the termination notice, his 1st response was:

    <NAME REMOVED>
    07-11-2010 - 11:04PM I will start new thread on WHT about unacceptable service if you will not put server back online, and will not let me transfer it to another hosting.

    As has been stated on WHT numerous times, we will not be bullied. Blogetery.comís behavior and disregard for our TOS/AUP not only put us at risk, but also every one of our other customers who do make the effort to respond and manage their servers in a professional manner.

    We will provide blogetery.com access to his data within the next 36 hours.
    Joe Marr
    BurstNet Technologies, Inc.
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  4. #169
    1st: I tried to resolve the situation privately with your support/abuse team for few days, then I went public.

    2nd: Apparently you lied to me that server was shut down by the order of law enforcement officials.
    Last edited by affiliateplex; 07-22-2010 at 11:58 AM.
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  5. #170
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    4,487
    I think burst.net did a fine job at handling this and if at anytime I need a budget dedicated server they would be my choice.

    Providers have done much worse but it is less known due to the fact that it was not posted on major news
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  6. #171
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    ē
    Posts
    785
    Well thats good that the guy finally gets his data back.
    But it seems its the negative publicity, and not bursts good service that made this happen.

    What copyrighted material are you talking about?
    The previous abuse complaint in april was resolved, so as far as you are aware there is no more copyrighted material on his server.

    The FBI requested that you not inform the customer, that seems pretty clear that they just wanted the information, not to disrupt the customers activity.

    AFAIK there is no law prohibiting possession or distribution of bomb making instructions, its easily found through google and you can buy books on it in book stores.
    There is also no law about possession/distribution of death threat letters, only the person who made the threat committed a crime.
    High Quality Web Hosting from Host Ultra
    Visit us online at www.hostultra.com
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  7. #172
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    858
    Quote Originally Posted by BurstJoeM View Post
    His data is fully intact. We have every intention of returning it to him and are in the process of working out the details.

    Here is a question for WHT users, based on the following what would you have done differently?

    We received an emergency request for contact information for the site’s owner from the FBI on July 9th. The letter claims links to content containing a hit list and instruction/tips on making bombs. The letter states we may choose to terminate the URLs. You verify that the links exist. So, now what?
    My reasoning would be this.

    Did FBI request that an action take place within a very short time frame (let's say 24 hours) or it was up to you to remove it in reasonable time?

    Checking those URLs, are those blog posts OLD? If they're several days old it would be obvious that if those messages were intended to reach someone then they probably already reached that person so it's no urgency.

    Check the client history, does he reply relatively fast to emails or not, does he have history of not replying in short time.

    If FBI requests immediat action, less than 24 hours, I'd remove the network cable from the server or firewall it, notify the client of this and connect KVMoIP to sort it out (well, maybe only if client had history of replying fast to emails and collaborating well).

    If no immediate action is required, then if client is usually responsive I would email him explaining the situation and give him 12-24 hours to reply and fix the issue.
    If client not responsive, I would try to give him a call and at the same time email his with request to answer in 4-8 hours or his server would be disconnected from the net.

    If I'd choose to no longer keep him as client, I would firewall the server and request from him one IP that would be allowed to connect to the server so that he can transfer his data within 1-3 days.

    I believe none of these actions were forbidden by FBI based on what I've read in this thread.
      0 Not allowed!

  8. #173
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    ē
    Posts
    785
    Quote Originally Posted by mariushm View Post
    Did FBI request that an action take place within a very short time frame (let's say 24 hours) or it was up to you to remove it in reasonable time?
    It was posted a few pages back, the FBI did not request the site be taken down, they only wanted the server owners contact information, along with a notice saying not to inform the customer.

    Burst took it upon themselves to take down the server, against the FBI's request to not inform the customer.
    High Quality Web Hosting from Host Ultra
    Visit us online at www.hostultra.com
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  9. #174
    Join Date
    Dec 2000
    Location
    The Woodlands, Tx
    Posts
    5,962
    I'm personally kinda divided on the issue. On one hand I think someone maybe panicked and could have over-reacted due to the letter being from the FBI rather than a standard civilan report. On the other hand, the server and network belongs to Burst and it is their call what is deemed worthy of a server shutdown or not.

    Burst made the call, as it is their right to do so. I really do feel for the customer since a large blog service is hard to monitor and keep track of, but certainly cant sit here and rag on Burst for a call that was every bit their right to make.
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  10. #175
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    East Coast
    Posts
    2,062
    Burst went overboard on this and reacted very poorly based on this guy being a "bad customer". What a piss poor attitude, and how seemingly appropriate coming from Burst. Issues like this should be responded to of their own accord, in fact I think that you opened yourself to potential harm by taking action that alerted the user to the FBI investigation while they were in the evidence gathering stage. I would think that something like this could be construed as impeding an ongoing investigation.

    You reacted emotionally to this situation, you should have simply complied with the request and let it run it's course, of course you should have also taken extra precautions to ensure that other customers were safe from a possible seizure but that is just part of being a service provider and you have to take the bad with the good otherwise you are cherry picking customers. Whats wrong with cherry picking customers? Ask all the unmetered hosts that went out of business because their removed people who actually tried to utilize their service thus destroying their reputations.
    Just199.com cPanel WebHosting and VPS's
    Paidforumposting.com The #1 content provider for forums and blogs
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  11. #176
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    56
    @BurstNET:

    I have been using your service for more than 6 years now. I understand that you had to take the server offline immediately but why didn't you do the following:

    - Suspend the server immediately.
    - Give the client SSH access but keep everything else blocked via firewall (maybe limiting access to his IP range).
    - After client deletes the links bring the server back online but cancel regularly with 14 days due notice.

    Perfect solution for you. Happy FBI, slightly pissed of yet not too angry customer and nobody could acuse you of anything here.
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  12. #177
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Under The Floor Tiles
    Posts
    566
    Quote Originally Posted by hostinginsiders View Post
    Perfect solution for you. Happy FBI, slightly pissed of yet not too angry customer and nobody could acuse you of anything here.
    From a technical standpoint it would be impossible for Burst to limit access only to the customer's IP, since they don't know where he is or what IP he would access it from.

    Additionally, it's not enough to just cut off HTTP access. Somebody might access it via FTP or SSH and get the instructions that way.

    And it seems that even though Burst has posted a full and complete explanation with all their reasoning and logical steps documented, people are still failing to read that and keep asking the same questions over and over. I have a strange feeling that a lot of people in this thread started out feeling sorry for the client, but now are just out to get BurstNET for whatever they can.

    Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
    "When a man begins to doubt himself, he does something incredibly stupid and thereby is reassured."
    ::http://www.dustytech.net/:: Personal Website
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  13. #178
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Posts
    4,149
    Quote Originally Posted by danclough View Post
    From a technical standpoint it would be impossible for Burst to limit access only to the customer's IP, since they don't know where he is or what IP he would access it from.
    How about... BurstNET providing the backup on another IP?

    Quote Originally Posted by danclough View Post
    Additionally, it's not enough to just cut off HTTP access. Somebody might access it via FTP or SSH and get the instructions that way.
    Nice to see you're exploring all possibilities, but that's abit far fetched for a blog site.

    Quote Originally Posted by danclough View Post
    And it seems that even though Burst has posted a full and complete explanation with all their reasoning and logical steps documented, people are still failing to read that and keep asking the same questions over and over. I have a strange feeling that a lot of people in this thread started out feeling sorry for the client, but now are just out to get BurstNET for whatever they can.
    It would help if BurstNET didn't have a poor reputation in the first place.
    Granted, they are a budget provider (which they often bring up as justification for their attitudes).

    So here's a newsflash: you get what you pay for (and vice versa).
    Seems like there's a good number of people who don't like BurstNET's handling of customers and issues, and the solution is simple: avoid them.
    For the rest, they can settle with BurstNET till they can afford better or face the brunt of BurstNET's attitudes.
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  14. #179
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Huntersville, NC
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Host Ultra View Post

    The FBI requested that you not inform the customer, that seems pretty clear that they just wanted the information, not to disrupt the customers activity.
    Correct, they did not ask us. We admitted a mistake was made. This was the first time we had seen this particular request. It was identified incorrectly in our system and we communicated it incorrectly to blogetery.com. We've updated our policy and procedures and We've apologized for the mistake. However, given the clients documented history of violating our TOS/AUP, and the seriousness of information contained in the request we choose to terminate.

    At the very least, had Blogetery.com not been previously suspended we would have simply suspended him this time.
    Joe Marr
    BurstNet Technologies, Inc.
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  15. #180
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Huntersville, NC
    Posts
    72
    Quote Originally Posted by Dave - Just199 View Post
    Burst went overboard on this and reacted very poorly based on this guy being a "bad customer". What a piss poor attitude, and how seemingly appropriate coming from Burst. Issues like this should be responded to of their own accord, in fact I think that you opened yourself to potential harm by taking action that alerted the user to the FBI investigation while they were in the evidence gathering stage. I would think that something like this could be construed as impeding an ongoing investigation.
    You honestly don't think we might have checked with them before releasing a statement or speaking with the media?
    Joe Marr
    BurstNet Technologies, Inc.
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