Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Web Hosting : SimpleHelix PayPal Policy

[bmzero]

I wanted to shed some light on a highly questionable payment policy by SimpleHelix.

Several months ago, I canceled a hosting contract with SimpleHelix. To be up completely honest about it, their service was very good. This is not a complaint about their products. However, during the cancellation process, I failed to cancel the PayPal recurring payment, rather, I failed to realize there was a recurring PayPal payment. Technically, none of that is a problem to this point. In the last couple of days, it has come to my attention that SimpleHelix has been receiving this money monthly and not refusing payment. Furthermore, they refuse to refund the money sent for services not rendered, stating, "it's not our policy to refund PayPal payments."

Putting something so blatantly unethical in your policy, which I clearly should have read better, does not make it OK.

Now, many months of PayPal payments sit in limbo at SimpleHelix.

I post this not to bash SimpleHelix, but to hopefully warn someone from getting themselves in the same situation. In a capitalistic economy, the consumer is king. For me, I will chose to spend all of my hosting money elsewhere, not at SimpleHelix. May they reap what they sew.

Here is the excerpt sent to me from "their policy":

"Please be advised that by selecting the yellow PayPal "Pay Now" or "Subscribe" button, a recurring PayPal subscription will be initiated. PayPal is a third party payment gateway, and as a result, clients are solely responsible for the creation, maintenance, and cancellation of any recurring subscriptions. SimpleHelix does not have the ability to initiate or cancel a PayPal subscription on behalf of our clients. Therefore, it is the responsibility of the client to cancel PayPal subscriptions along with any SimpleHelix services to prevent continuous billing through PayPal. SimpleHelix will under no circumstances issue a refund for PayPal payments. In the instance a duplicate PayPal subscription is created, SimpleHelix will only issue account credit, not a refund in the amount of the duplicate PayPal payment. For questions regarding your PayPal payments, please contact our Billing Department."

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there is no technical limitation through PayPal that would prevent issuing a refund, but I guess that's ok if "it's not their policy".


-brit

[quiksilver]

Well it looks like they've covered their asses, and unfortunately you're probably out the money.

If it were me I would file a dispute for the payments you sent after you canceled the service.

Oh and I would be more careful next time

[HostLeet]

I fail to see how they have done anything wrong?.. You're the one responsible for your own payments, as well as cancelling your PayPal subscription after you cancel your services, not them.

They can't login inside your PayPal account and cancel the subscription for you... I hate to break it to you, but this is common practice for alot of PayPal merchants in this industry. Also, they seem to be prefectly clear about it in their documentation.

[Senator B]

They may not have a way to stop the payments, but that doesn't mean they don't have an obligation to return money they know they're not entitled to have, "policy" notwithstanding. If the OP mailed a check for his last month of service that accidentally had an extra zero on it ($1000 instead of $100), does that mean they get to keep the extra $900? If not, why are things magically different when Paypal gets involved?

To the OP: if you feel the amount is worth it, I'd absolutely make a stink about this. "Policy" in this case is simply code for "we don't feel like it", and someone at that company can return your money to you if they suddenly feel like it.

[SwarmHost]

Actually, I don't know how long this has been in place, but a business account can cancel a subscription. They either have outdated information or they are not being honest with their clients. I have done it multiple times upon request. I find that most people hate that feature, but some do like it so I leave it as an option.

[plumsauce]

Originally Posted by HostLeet

I fail to see how they have done anything wrong?.. You're the one responsible for your own payments, as well as cancelling your PayPal subscription after you cancel your services, not them.

They can't login inside your PayPal account and cancel the subscription for you... I hate to break it to you, but this is common practice for alot of PayPal merchants in this industry. Also, they seem to be prefectly clear about it in their documentation.

Well, actually, they have. It's called ethics. They have been accepting money to which they are not entitled.

They can refuse the payment, or refund the payment from their own control panel. They can even cut a cheque. They could even have sent a simple warning email to the former client.

The OP should file a case with Paypal. And, review the rules that Paypal has in place for payments made in error, and recurring payments. Anyone can have any wonky policies they like, but Paypal policies will override them.

[NexDog]

SimpleHelix does not have the ability to initiate or cancel a PayPal subscription on behalf of our clients.

This is pretty horrible. Firstly a merchant must always be able to control a client's billing. Secondly all PayPal merchants can cancel a subscription at any time. It is incredible to think that a host leaves it up to a client to cancel their own billing. Many might check but most leave it up to the host.

File with PayPal. The host cannot deny the account was cancelled and they will have to refund.

[SiberForum]

I do not think they are telling truth to you. If they initialized the recurring they can easily stop it anytime or you as end user can do that.

[SercoNetworks]

SimpleHelix are correct; they have no control over your PayPal account, specifically re-occurring payments this is all down to you to maintain and sort out.

As far as I'm concerned its up to you to to cancel the re-occurring payment when your no longer using the service, you also state this has been occurring for 'months' - do you not check PayPal/Bank Statements? did you not wonder what you where paying monthly for? did you not receive the receipt email from paypal after each payment

[StealthyHosting]

If you use your paypal account a lot it is very easy to not notice $20/month. Paypal merchants can not create a recurring subscription on your account (They can send you a link that you then subscribe using) but they CAN cancel a subscription by looking up the subscription or looking at a recent subscription payment. I would file a dispute in paypal for as far back as you can go, Include all cacelation emails. They will be required to proove they gave you service, and with a canceled service they can not.

[Sparrow-Sean]

SimpleHelix will under no circumstances issue a refund for PayPal payments. In the instance a duplicate PayPal subscription is created, SimpleHelix will only issue account credit, not a refund in the amount of the duplicate PayPal payment.

I agree with the rest of this, however, this part really is inappropriate. You can issue refunds accordinly from your PayPal account and although it was a subscribed payment it can still be re-issued to the client and fees will be reveresed.

This is just another money making mechanism by SompleHelix. Pretty sad really how they gauge you in the end.

[bmzero]

I really appreciate all of the interest and feedback on this issue. Thanks.

As I said in my original post, clearly I should have canceled the recurring payment through PayPal. That didn't happen, for many oversight reasons, but it comes across as SimpleHelix punishing me for not canceling. That is the issue, not the lack of cancelation on their end.

The bottom line is they have received money they are not legally or morally entitled to an they are refusing a refund.

Thanks again.

[SercoNetworks]

Originally Posted by bmzero

The bottom line is they have received money they are not legally or morally entitled to an they are refusing a refund.

Legally they are as at some-point you will have agreed to those Terms and Conditions.

Morally I agree with you.

[Sparrow-Sean]

The bottom line is they have received money they are not legally or morally entitled to an they are refusing a refund.

Sad part is that this is in their terms to which you were bound by, morally unacceptable but you agreed to it

We wish you luck in your new journey.

[bmzero]

Originally Posted by Sparrow-Sean

Sad part is that this is in their terms to which you were bound by, morally unacceptable but you agreed to it

We wish you luck in your new journey.

At the point when I canceled service from them, I feel I should no longer be bound by their policies. If I was an active customer, I would have no problem with a PayPal credit, but seeing that I do not use their service, it seems as they are holding money is not theirs.