Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : Programming Discussion : Avoid dephnet-technologies.com / DephNet[Paul]

[AdamD]

I was looking for a coder to create a plugin/modification for my Vbulletin forum, as well as for a client of mine who was also interested in the idea.

So I decided to look on WHT for a coder who was competent in PHP/MySQL and Vbulletin in general.

And that's when I came across a thread in the offers section by DephNet[Paul]

http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=947680

I contacted Paul via email as requested in the thread, explained what I wanted and was quoted £300 for 30 hours of PHP work.

He asked if I had a date that this needed to be implemented by, I said "upto 30 days"

The first part of the payment was sent on May 13th at roughly 10pm GMT, for £150 (50% deposit)

Fast forward to the 14th of June, I never received the promised product/modification and despite numerous requests for updates, I never got any solid finish date, or update on how close it was to completion.

Despite numerous "I'll check on the status tomorrow" emails, I never got anything back.

So on Saturday the 5th of June, I requsted a refund, as I was tired of waiting with no updates and my client was also fedup and decided to go to another programmer to get the work done.

The reply I got back was dissapointing, to say the least.

Hello Adam,

I did receive your email, As I do not work during the weekends I did not receive it until today.

I am sorry to hear that you had to go elsewhere to get the mod done.

Unfortunately, because of the time I have taken to do this, I am unable to provide a refund.

Paul

And

Adam,

You paid a deposit of £150, deposits by their very nature are non-refundable, I initially gave you the option that if, after 7 days, you were not happy with my work I would refund 100% of the deposit. You did not take up this offer, and so the deposit reverted to being non-refundable.

On top of this, I have taken a further 10 hours, on top of the 30 I quoted to begin with, but I am not going to expect the final £250 to be paid as you have not received the final product.

I admit that my contact with you could have been better but having to deal with several issues here my mind was elsewhere. If I had an issue free month I would have had this done three weeks ago, but unfortunately the best laid plans do not always go to plan.

Therefore the refund is denied.

Paul

So, any advice or thoughts are appreciated.

[AdamD]

Saturday the 12th of June rather, not the 5th.

[ThatScriptGuy]

Refund denied or not, file a chargeback if you really want your money (Assuming you paid with a CC)

[AdamD]

Nah it was a bank transfer through paypal, unfortunately
And paypal don't want to know, even though I escalated it to a claim, they closed the case and said they couldn't help.

[Dan_EZPZ]

In that case contact your bank.

[-Edward-]

Have you spoken to your bank about getting a reversal done ? some banks will reverse the transfer for a small administration fee.

[AdamD]

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to call the bank tomorrow first thing.

[volmasoft]

As a side point, I would be wary of anyone who offers programming at £10 an hour, that's very cheap and usually it's younger generations attempting it.

[DephNet[Paul]]

To everyone that says that Adam should contact his bank and dispute the transaction, the only way that Adam can do that is if he claims that he did not authorise the payment. As he did infact authorise the payment, any claim that he did not would be considered to be a case of fraud.

Originally Posted by volmasoft

As a side point, I would be wary of anyone who offers programming at £10 an hour, that's very cheap and usually it's younger generations attempting it.

If you actually read the thread that Adam posted it says that my normal rates are £40 per hour.

Now, onto the complaint. As I stated in the reply to Adam, deposits, by their very nature, are non-refundable, however I gave him the option of reviewing the contract after 7 days, and if he was not happy after the 7 days I would refund the deposit, Adam did not take up this offer and so reverted to a non-refundable deposit.

Yes Adam did submit a Paypal dispute, and escalated the dispute only 40 minutes after opening it, not giving me enough time to file a response. I phoned Paypal and gave my response. The Paypal rep said that because the dispute related to a deposit for an intangible item there were two reasons to close the claim in my favor. Both deposits and intangible items are not covered by the Paypal T&C.

[Dan-CKS]

Originally Posted by AdamD

Thanks for the tips, I'm going to call the bank tomorrow first thing.

Good luck

[AdamD]

Originally Posted by DephNet[Paul]

Now, onto the complaint. As I stated in the reply to Adam, deposits, by their very nature, are non-refundable, however I gave him the option of reviewing the contract after 7 days, and if he was not happy after the 7 days I would refund the deposit, Adam did not take up this offer and so reverted to a non-refundable deposit.

During those 7 days, did you once show a working prototype? or give me a progress report on how it was going? No.

Even when the 30th day came and passed, you still hadn't delivered a working prototype, demo or any kind of update on when it would be finished

How the heck was I to even review the contract when all you gave me was excuses?

When I paid the original 50% deposit, you gave me optimism that this would be finished pretty quickly, an error on my part, for sure, as the comment you made right after I paid you was

Thursday, May 13, 2010 10:32 PM

"Thats great, Ill get started on that tomorrow morning."

On May 17th I contacted you see if you were able to do the modification and requested an update, as I hadn't heard from you, your response was

Hi Adam,

Sorry I have not contacted you since Thursday but I have been busy in London, clearing up after a few servers decided they needed a lie down.

I am on my way back home now, and will have a look at this tomorrow afternoon.

I am pretty sure that I can create this as there is almost the entire process already in the admin centre, but at present the Team Leader's are unable to assign moderators to their forums.

Paul

Fast forward to May 25th and I still hadn't received any updates, to which I emailed you about again, with

Howdy Paul,

Hope you sorted your sleepy servers out.

Was just wondering if you had any updates?

Thanks again

Adam

To which you replied with

Hi Adam,

We have almost sorted them out, just a few last tweaks to be done, I feel confident enough to leave my staff too it now, and I will have a look at your work first thing in the morning.

Paul

Despite the product only needing a "few last tweaks" and telling me you would look at it's progress "first thing in the morning", I never did hear from you.

I only heard from you nearly 3 weeks later when I asked for a refund.

To be honest, if you'd have actually kept in touch and kept me updated with it's progress (if work was even being done at all), I wouldn't have minded so much

[Driver01]

Now, onto the complaint. As I stated in the reply to Adam, deposits, by their very nature, are non-refundable, however I gave him the option of reviewing the contract after 7 days, and if he was not happy after the 7 days I would refund the deposit, Adam did not take up this offer and so reverted to a non-refundable deposit.

Yes Adam did submit a Paypal dispute, and escalated the dispute only 40 minutes after opening it, not giving me enough time to file a response. I phoned Paypal and gave my response. The Paypal rep said that because the dispute related to a deposit for an intangible item there were two reasons to close the claim in my favor. Both deposits and intangible items are not covered by the Paypal T&C.

Sorry but that is a load of poppycock, if not for a better word...

I could post a long and thoughtful post but I can't see that it would make any difference so I'll give you a brief of my opinion. You are the one that has not fullfilled the agreement or service, therefore I would say that you either

a. provide the OP with the work as is. (i.e. the 15 hours worth of work completed @10£ per hour.)
b. Refund the upfront Payment.
c. Finish the project and make agreement with OP to purchase for the remaining amount initially quoted.

Unless we're missing something here the OP has done nothing wrong for him to forfeit the £150 part-payment (Not Deposit!)?

If you feel that he has wasted your time give him the 15 hours of work that was completed to justify the £150 payment.

[DephNet[Paul]]

Originally Posted by AdamD

During those 7 days, did you once show a working prototype? or give me a progress report on how it was going? No.

If you were unhappy, for any reason, you should have said then and I would have refunded you.

Originally Posted by Driver01

Unless we're missing something here the OP has done nothing wrong for him to forfeit the £150 part-payment (Not Deposit!)?

What do you think a deposit is? I stated in the original email contact with Adam that I require a 50% payment as a deposit, which is normally non-refundable, but I decided to give him the offer of having a refundable deposit for 7 days, on day 8 it would turn into a non-refundable deposit.

[AHFBWEB]

Paul, looking at this from thge outside in, your posts are probably doing your rep more harm than good. So far what I see is nothing more than "ha, gotcha". Maybe the best way to handle the problem is to...try to handle the problem.

[Driver01]

What do you think a deposit is?

A refundable payment made for a providers protection that a consumer will follow and abide by any conditions set in an agreement or contract. If a consumer breaks the agreement or contract the deposit becomes non-refundable.

"If I rent a flat the landlord/agent requires a deposit to ensure that I abide by the tenacy agreement, this also protects the agent from any damages that occur during my tenacy. If the agreement is not breached and there is no verifiable damage the deposit remains refundable."

"If I go to paintball with my friends I have to put a deposit on the companys gun that I am going to use, as a protection against any losses to the company due to theft or damages, if those conditions are not incurred the deposit remains refundable."

"If I want to reserve a flight to NY over the internet I need to make the payment for my ticket which is a non-refundable deposit, if I don't turn up for the flight I will lose my deposit, if I turn up and BA cannot supply the flight I booked and cannot give me a flight to NY, then my deposit is refundable."

so I concur for me a deposit is refundable by nature and non-refundable under condition.