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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059

    When will I learn?? GET PAID UP FRONT!!

    I feel uncomfortable making this post, but I have been cheated and think it is an appropriate post.

    On Nov 14 I got a call from a customer who had already purchased tutorials from me. In the original order, he wanted to pay by check, so he overnighted payment to me. Great, everyone was happy. When he called on Nov 14 he wanted more tutorials (Ensim). He explained that he wanted to get his site designer to incorporate them into his site that day, so he asked to get the product first, then send in a check by regular mail. Well, being the nice guy (fool), I fell for it. I gave him product. In the next couple of weeks, I sent him a few emails reminding him of the $89.95 he owed me, no answer. On Dec 2, I called him. He admitted he never sent the payment, and asked me to provide him with an invoice and he would overnight it. I emailed as well as faxed him an invoice. I received nothing in the mail. For the last week I have emailed him with no reply. When I try to call, it says voice mail is unavailable.

    What really burns me is that hours after my conversation with him on Dec 2nd, he posted a thread here http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showth...threadid=93317 promoting his new site design. So he's got funds to pay (presumably) for a new site design, but refuses to pay a $90 bill for product received? Defies logic. I see in his Support section he's got the Ensim tutorials nicely displayed.

    I sent him an email and a PM yesterday telling him that he had until today to make good on his debt, else I would post this incident publically. Obviously, since you're reading this, you know what decision he made.

    I even went to the extent of trying to figure out if I'm making unfair presumptions. Maybe he got sick or something happened right after I spoke with him that would have prevented him from sending payment as promised. But I couldn't reconcile that possibility. After all, several hours after our phone call he had the presence of mind to create a new thread promoting his new site design.

    Again, this post makes me feel very awkward. I really do hate airing dirty laundry in public. But perhaps if any of you are considering buying a hosting plan from him, perhaps I owe you a heads up on how this fellow conducts business.

    Now if Mr. Upton decides to reply to this thread and provides a reasonable explanation for his disappearing act, I will humbly apologize (after payment is received) and move on. But somehow, almost a full month later and no hint of a payment forthcoming - I think I am spot-on.

    Lesson learned: Set a payment policy for your business - and DO NOT DEVIATE from it for ANYONE.

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    12,185
    I agree Vito and sorry to hear about your experience.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    7,147
    Lesson learned: Set a payment policy for your business - and DO NOT DEVIATE from it for ANYONE
    great suggestion

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,100
    Contact his host/reseller/dedicated server provided and tell them hosting content with no permission

  5. #5
    Greetings:

    If this is a "lessons learned" area <smile>, then

    * Don't personally loan money to employees.

    * Don't have the company loan money to employees.

    * Don't believe you are protected because of a promissory note.

    Thank you.
    ---
    Peter M. Abraham
    LinkedIn Profile

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    1,953
    try contacting the person hosting with, ie datacenter or if hes reselling, the comany, then tell them he is displaying illegal copys of ur stuff
    Chicago Electronic Cigarettes: Tobacco Free, Smoke Free. 3 E-Cig Models, 11 flavors, and accessories.
    http://www.chicago-ecigs.com

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059
    You know, this makes me more disappointed than angry. Sometimes I'm just amazed at what dollar figure some people are prepared to compromise their integrity and name.

    Off to pick up my 8 year old daughter at school. Will chime in later...

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    1,262
    This is another sorry tale and makes conducting business in this forum even more difficult. As a supplier you don't want to get burned by not getting paid - as a customer you don't want to pay and not receive.
    Tonight I felt peeved at someone asking me for a deposit for work he has just started for me, especially as I had a problem with some templates recently - I guess this shows me the other side and a deposit has been sent.
    Maybe asking for a deposit is a good policy - I hope you get paid Vito.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    3,100
    Originally posted by davidb
    try contacting the person hosting with, ie datacenter or if hes reselling, the comany, then tell them he is displaying illegal copys of ur stuff
    I'm faster

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,815
    My sentiments exactly vito (regarding integrity). I have the same feelings about design theft, yet with some people around here seems as though they tolerate it. I see folks giving suggestions and input to a known ripper, what the hell is that? Run the bastards off.

    Why is that you think? Perhaps some have become so de-sensitized to it, they don't care? Or maybe because money never changed hands, they don't see it as theft. Or maybe it's because they're afraid of the truth, that they can't get a pixelbrick design for $150, so they ignore it.

    Anyways, good luck getting your money.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,372
    Check out our hosting plans or give us a call if you have any questions. We answer the phone!

    Well...that is what it says on his site anyway.

    Simon

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059
    Originally posted by SimonMc
    Check out our hosting plans or give us a call if you have any questions. We answer the phone!

    Well...that is what it says on his site anyway.

    Simon
    Well, since I'm in Canada, his toll free number doesn't work for me, so when I call his regular number, it's on my nickel (rubbing yet more salt in the wound...)

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    1,372
    Maybe one of the nice US people here could give him a call...infact..if all the us people here give him a call and then another and another...you will soon get your $90 bucks worth as he has to pay for that toll free.

    Or..you could just forget it and say to your self...lesson learned...but it really sticks in the back of your throat to do it.

    If he is prepared to stake his rep for that...then his rep was probablly sh*t anyway and he won't give a monkeys what you say about him.

    Simon

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059
    If I get paid, great. If I don't, lesson learned. Thankfully it would not be a lesson that was too expensive.

    What I think I will do is send him an email 2 (or 30) times a day until I get tired of doing it. At least I'll be "in his face" about it for a little while.

    Is there some kind of a cron job that I could set up to do that automatically??

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Illinois, USA
    Posts
    7,147
    Is there some kind of a cron job that I could set up to do that automatically??
    make a PHP script and execute that via cron every half hour

  16. #16
    Yeah man, that definitely sucks.
    I always ask for a deposit on anything now after I get ripped off by a board member here about 3 weeks ago.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059
    Originally posted by akash


    make a PHP script and execute that via cron every half hour
    I'd love to know how to do that. Is it a simple entry in the command line? I use cPanel, so I assume I click to create a cron job, but I'm unfamiliar with what to put into the command line...

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    12,185
    PHP is evil for cron jobs
    But any how, emailing him every 30 minutes is not going to change anything; all he has to do is block your email address.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059
    timechange - the voice of reason...again...
    Taking all the fun out of it.

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Central Texas
    Posts
    425
    LOL!

    He can also just block your emails due to the subject or written content.

    But...is this really the best solution?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059
    No, it's actually not. The solution is probably to chalk it up to experience and get on with business.

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    3,100
    Based on yours and my recent experience I think that there would be market out there for service that can provide some comfort in situations simmilar to this one . As soon I better undestand all legal issues, I will start coding it.

    Someone already had similar idea before.
    http://web.archive.org/web/200110271...com/index.html

  23. #23
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,799
    So 800 numbers really don't work in Canada?
    Have A Question?
    Call Us 866-465-9832
    DANG DANG! DANG!!
    I know ***** ripped off everybody else, but they wouldn't do it to me.
    "When you use bottom feed for bait, you are only going to catch bottom feeders."
    "You do what you are, and you are what you do."

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Toronto, Canada
    Posts
    11,059
    It depends on how you set it up with the phone company. I have a toll free line and have it set up to receive calls from anywhere in Canada and US. If I chose to, I could have it only work in Canada. If you're in the States, I guess you can specify the same thing, since when I call that number, it says "Your call cannot be completed as dialed". Unless of course the number is just no longer in service...

    Vito
    DemoDemo.com - Flash tutorials since 2002
    DemoWolf.com - 5,300+ Flash tutorials for hosting companies, incl. Voice tutorials

  25. #25
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,799
    OK try adding the country code 1-866-465-9832 and see if that helps. The US has been running out of numbers, and now (started in Oct 2002) we all have to dial the three digit prefix even if we are calling next door. Also, my cell doesn't need the "1" but the land line gives me the message "Your call cannot be completed as dialed" if I don't dial the "1" first.
    DANG DANG! DANG!!
    I know ***** ripped off everybody else, but they wouldn't do it to me.
    "When you use bottom feed for bait, you are only going to catch bottom feeders."
    "You do what you are, and you are what you do."

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