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Thread: Cloud or VPS?

  1. #1
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    Cloud or VPS?

    When I tried to get more info from LiquidWeb's VPS services, they recommended me to take up their Storm On Demand(Cloud Computing).

    I tried their livechat, I was addressed by Alex. The responses were quite vague. Simply saying that cloud is better over VPS in everything. This statement seems scary. I tried to place an order, to see the total price payable. The phone number I provided in the first place was incorrect when Alex tried to call me. I gave him another number to call, but kept insisting that I should state that number in the order.

    I am looking for a managed service, and has to have cPanel+WHM+Fantastico.

    Anyway, is Cloud Computer really better? I am pretty new to this new idea, and would appreciate your feedback. Has anyone used their Storm On Demand services? Are there alternatives?
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  2. #2
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    Whats the application? Are you looking to use it for hosting?
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by crj- View Post
    Whats the application? Are you looking to use it for hosting?
    Yes, I am using it for hosting.
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  4. #4
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    Cloud would be nice, could be a USP.
    Clients sites would be a little faster I guess.
    Im intrested in getting a cloud server soon.
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  5. #5
    You can think of a cloud as a specialized VPS. Typically, it allows for portability, ondemand scalability, physical redundancy, more granual, utility type of billing, etc...

    Also, a VPS itself has a wide variety of definitions - before you even get to discussing clouds..

    You can have software level VPS solutions (things like Virtuozzo and OpenVZ) or hardware level VPS (like Xen), etc...

    A cloud will typically be built on flexible and elastic hardware level virtualization.. you can then run software level VPS within it, as well as whatever applications you desire..

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by crj- View Post
    Clients sites would be a little faster I guess.
    Why would the sites be faster than other hosting options?

  7. #7

    Go for cloud

    Cloud servers will generally be better than VPS for a few reasons:

    1. A lot of VPS providers oversell their servers leading to slower performance and bandwidth, cost can be slightly higher, but better performance makes up for the difference
    2. Cloud servers are generally auto-provisioning, so you can bring them online faster
    3. Cloud servers are usually billed using a utility model, by the hour, so you can save $ if you don't need a server 24x7, or if you need to provision additional servers during peak periods
    4. Cloud vendors usually provide more advanced features like backups, server templates, load balancing, firewall, VPNs, etc.
    5. Cloud vendors usually provide APIs and tools for integrating external software with their cloud. This can be useful for automation

    On the flip side, cloud vendors aren't generally going to hold your hand as much with the setup. You won't usually find CPANEL, Plesk, or phpMyAdmin pre-installed on cloud servers or included in the service fee. You can still install that software, but it will require a bit more know-how.

  8. #8
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    What I am continuing to find with vps is they are easier to manage and setup, and support is better. I like the idea of cloud, but I haven't seen anything yet that is easy to use.
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  9. #9
    Cloud computing is a fairly recent service offering for most of these providers. You will have to ask yourself if you expect your needs to grow so much that you will require a cloud environment. Most users have managed find without the clouds being around.

  10. #10
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    Cloud and VPS aren't really the same thing. If you want a VPS, get a VPS.
    I don't like upselling.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by johngrey View Post
    Cloud computing is a fairly recent service offering for most of these providers. You will have to ask yourself if you expect your needs to grow so much that you will require a cloud environment. Most users have managed find without the clouds being around.
    well, most users go along fine before the day of control panels, shared hosting, VPS offerings, etc.. peoples requirements evolve and change, as do the offerings out there...

    Quote Originally Posted by kpmedia View Post
    Cloud and VPS aren't really the same thing. If you want a VPS, get a VPS.
    I don't like upselling.
    it is not about upselling, it is all about the right tools for the job..

    the cloud is just another weapon in a providers arsenal.. some customers are fine in shared hosting, some simply need isolation and a basic VPS is a good fit, others want elasticity and redundancy - and a cloud is the best fit there... no need to try and fit a square peg into a round hole - find the right solution for a particular customers needs..

    Quote Originally Posted by dvduval View Post
    What I am continuing to find with vps is they are easier to manage and setup, and support is better. I like the idea of cloud, but I haven't seen anything yet that is easy to use.
    I think the industry is starting to see more and more managed cloud providers out there.. sure, if you just need infrastructure and want to manage it all yourself, that is available.. but, more and more companies are surfacing with offerings giving consumers the benefit of the cloud, along with installs, configuration and management they are used to seeing with traditional services..

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cloudharmony View Post
    Cloud servers will generally be better than VPS for a few reasons:

    1. A lot of VPS providers oversell their servers leading to slower performance and bandwidth, cost can be slightly higher, but better performance makes up for the difference
    2. Cloud servers are generally auto-provisioning, so you can bring them online faster
    3. Cloud servers are usually billed using a utility model, by the hour, so you can save $ if you don't need a server 24x7, or if you need to provision additional servers during peak periods
    4. Cloud vendors usually provide more advanced features like backups, server templates, load balancing, firewall, VPNs, etc.
    5. Cloud vendors usually provide APIs and tools for integrating external software with their cloud. This can be useful for automation

    On the flip side, cloud vendors aren't generally going to hold your hand as much with the setup. You won't usually find CPANEL, Plesk, or phpMyAdmin pre-installed on cloud servers or included in the service fee. You can still install that software, but it will require a bit more know-how.
    I've heard some cloud services have had database sync issues. In most clouds, where does the database reside? On a single server? If so, there's a bottle neck. If the database resides on multiple servers, how do they maintain proper sync?

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by accelerated_hosting View Post
    I've heard some cloud services have had database sync issues. In most clouds, where does the database reside? On a single server? If so, there's a bottle neck. If the database resides on multiple servers, how do they maintain proper sync?
    It does not generally work like this..

    Firstly, it depends on what sort of data base you are working with and what inherent limitations that DB type (ie mssql, MySQL, etc) may have...

    most importantly though is how things are built..

    Some people use a combination of cloud based services for their web content and dedicated nodes for their the DB content - eitherway, I do not see a bottle neck here as its nothing new to have several web servers front ending a DB node..

    others will run DB service in the cloud, and replication is not really required as typically data is handled by storage systems - which also handle replication, snap shotting, etc..

    bottle necks come into play with anything and everything - if there is not enough capacity, and environments are over allocated - there will be bottlenecks.. this is completely independent of clouds or whatever other environment.. it becomes a provider issue..

    the cloud, just as anything else, is dependent on proper resource planning, advanced metrics to predict potential capacity bottlenecks and appropriate infrastructure to scale and add capacity where and when needed - and preferably in a pro-active manner.. as with every other hosting service - there will be good providers and not so good providers and different grades of service.. the good providers will have enough capacity, will predict future capacity requests and prevent bottlenecks strictly based on their business model and philosophy - others will not..

    this is no different then any other hosting service that has been a concern in this industry for years and years..

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post
    It does not generally work like this..

    Firstly, it depends on what sort of data base you are working with and what inherent limitations that DB type (ie mssql, MySQL, etc) may have...
    OK. Suppose I have an application that for each user transaction interrogates a database, obtains a result of typically 10 to 1000 rows of 100 bytes, and uses that to build the response to the user. Each database query accesses a single table and reads all the rows.

    1) What transaction rates could I support on shared hosting for $10 per month?
    2) What transaction rates could I support on a VPS, at what cost?
    3) What transaction rates could I support on a dedicated server, at what cost?
    4) What transaction rates could I support on a a cloud, at what cost?

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    OK. Suppose I have an application that for each user transaction interrogates a database, obtains a result of typically 10 to 1000 rows of 100 bytes, and uses that to build the response to the user. Each database query accesses a single table and reads all the rows.

    1) What transaction rates could I support on shared hosting for $10 per month?
    2) What transaction rates could I support on a VPS, at what cost?
    3) What transaction rates could I support on a dedicated server, at what cost?
    4) What transaction rates could I support on a a cloud, at what cost?
    Hello tim2718281,

    this is a pretty specific question and requirement and honestly does not really indicate much outside of this very specific requirement...

    Firstly, these results will greatly vary amongst different configurations of the same solution (ie one shared provider to the next and one VPS provider to the next) as it is highly reliant on configurations, etc...

    if all you are interested in is transaction rates, then you should go with a local storage model, probably not shared, with SAS drives in a RAID10 array - optimized coding and extensive memory caching... A VPS server utilizing software level virtualization with SATA drives and with shared resources which may or may not be available will perform completely different then hardware level virtualization with guaranteed resources and SAS drives for example...

    For this specific requirement, a GOOD, hardware level VPS with guaranteed resources and local storage SAS drives in a RAID10 array would probably be your best bet - but, you would still be bound by the resources available in your instance...

    but, the flip side is, if this is a transactional specific requirement - most of these types of scenarios would have seasonal or bursting requirements.. therefore, a cloud solution, even without local storage - may be the best solution as it contains the elasticity and redundancy that is usually required in these types of scenarios even if there is a small performance hit.. Heck, many large transactional companies will have clustering in place where web and DB are separated, knowing full well they are taking a small performance hit, but, benefiting with specialized roles, increased security and resiliency..

    If you are really interested in such a specific requirement, you should run some benchmarking for your specific application in certain environments.. and if all you care about is transaction rate - and redundancy or elasticity or anything else do not matter - you will be able to pretty quickly figure out which environment and which solution would work best for your specific requirements.. there really is not a way to generalize this...

    as I have said - it really depends on what you are trying to accomplish and which provider you are dealing with.. there are many ways to skin a cat - and rarely does the ideal solution come down to a single simple metric like a specific query rate on a specific table..

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by cartika-andrew View Post

    Some people use a combination of cloud based services for their web content and dedicated nodes for their the DB content - eitherway, I do not see a bottle neck here as its nothing new to have several web servers front ending a DB node..
    But many cloud services include database, which basically means the database is on a shared server. The other accounts being on the server too makes it a bit more of a bottle neck, than if they were paying for multiple dedicated boxes, including a dedicated box for DB.

    So paying for cloud service only, makes it potentially more bottle necked at the DB, than if someone payed for a dedicated DB box, right?

    Thanks for your answers!

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by accelerated_hosting View Post
    But many cloud services include database,
    Well of course...

    which basically means the database is on a shared server.
    A cloud instance is no more shared then a hardware level VPS..

    The other accounts being on the server too makes it a bit more of a bottle neck, than if they were paying for multiple dedicated boxes, including a dedicated box for DB.
    I think there is a misunderstanding of what a cloud looks like and how it works..

    So paying for cloud service only, makes it potentially more bottle necked at the DB, than if someone payed for a dedicated DB box, right?
    I apologize, this is not necessarily correct.. Dedicateds can have their own bottlenecks, clouds, if not built properly can also have bottlenecks, advanced clusters can have bottlenecks.. everything can...

    Each solution has its own benefits for different reasons..

    Thanks for your answers!
    not a problem, hopefully overtime, peoples understandings of the different technologies and their various benefits and applications will grow

  18. #18
    I have been using RackSpace Cloud and have been very pleased thus far.

  19. #19
    @jweeb
    Hi,

    We seem to have covered a lot of ground with VPS and cloud.

    Here are my 2 cents on the precise of differences between cloud and VPS:

    1. Cloud will have a Pay As You Go Model. VPS will not. So, just like a utility service if you use the cloud server for 15 hours day, you will only get billed for 15 hours.

    2. You could create custom server images in cloud. Missing in VPS. These images can be used to build servers from.

    3. Cloud allows you to upgrade or downgrade your server on the fly and in real time. This means that you can upgrade from a 2 GB server to 4 GB in 5 minutes without the need for any re-installing or loading of applications. Most VPS do not offer that.

    Hope it helps.

    Cheers!

  20. #20
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    It is important that you define what you mean by "cloud" because it doesn't have a strict definition to everybody at the present time.

    In the usage in which it is being used in this thread, however, "cloud" seems to be referring to a virtual server provisioned on infrastructure that enables it to be more scalable and robust in terms of the hardware and software running beneath that virtual server?

    An interesting point to make is that a single virtual server on "cloud" infrastructure doesn't mean that your application is any more scalable, secure, or reliable than hosting that application on a single dedicated server.... you'll still need to reboot that single instance, rebuild the kernel etc etc. The point of "cloud" infrastructure is to use ideas of clustering and load balancing to increase the availability of your application. The utility billing model helps with this - such that you can fire up additional web server nodes with minor configuration on your part (or even automatically if you're smart) at certain times when your site is particularly busy (e.g. 7pm-midnight), and then shut those down when they're not required.
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  21. #21
    There is no harm in defining cloud hosting, again.

    1. Clustered virtualized environment which has hardware fail-over options.
    2. On-demand servers - Create/upgrade/downgrade/remove servers like a utility.
    3. Pay As You Go. Pay by the hour and not by month or year.
    4. Create custom server images.

    I suppose that is the broad definition everyone is working with, here and in the industry.

    While exact definitions vary, the key difference is that cloud hosting or cloud offers A. Pay As You Go & B. On Demand services. Just like a utility.

    Cheers!

  22. #22
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    Thanks for the sharing!
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