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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    iWeb - faxing CC info after you get charged?

    So I just purchased a server from iWeb, and apparently I need to wait until Monday (Or maybe as late as Wednesday) before it is setup... That's kind of annoying, but not a big deal. What IS, and what has me... Let's just say livid, as the words I want to use aren't allowed on WHT... Is the fact that apparently I need to FAX them a signed contract, AND my credit card information?

    Can anyone confirm this? I paid them in full, my card was charged literally seconds after the order was placed, and they have all of my information. Why, then, do they require me to FAX anything? I do not own a fax, I do not own a scanner, I do not own a printer, I own no method to print, scan/fax them this information, nor do I want to - maybe after the 2 hours I spent reading everything I could about them, I somehow overlooked a notice saying I was required to fax them something... But I don't think so.

    Can anyone confirm that I need to fax them ANYTHING even after they charged me immediately after I ordered the server? If this is the case, can someone tell me how I can get an immediate refund (Not credit on their site), so I can go with a datacenter that doesn't require unnecessary steps*? I've been with three data centers over the past 8 years, and none of them have required me to fax them a single bit of info.


    *It needs to be before the 18th... Absolute latest time it can happen - I need to cancel my server elsewhere by midnight on the 18th otherwise I'm going to have to pay another month there as well, which I would really like to avoid.
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  2. #2
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    I believe it is normal.

    Why not just go out for some fax service?
    Specially 4 You
    .
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by net View Post
    I believe it is normal.

    Why not just go out for some fax service?
    No printer, no scanner, no fax machine, and I live in a small town... Not to mention the fact that I do not want to, I refuse to - no where in the order page does it mention this except after they charge you. This is not acceptable, and if I am really required to fax them anything (Let alone my credit card information), I want a refund. I did not agree to this - if they had mentioned it beforehand, I'd be fine with figuring out a way to fax them the contract... Maybe find a friend who has a printer/scanner or fax.
    But being required to fax my credit card? After I was charged? Not okay, not at all.
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  4. #4
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    Sorry to hear your are not happy, maybe you can try paypal as an option?
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  5. #5
    Some kind of verification is many times necessary, either over the phone or by checking the credit card.
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2007
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    From their Term's of Service:

    The Customer hereby authorizes iWeb Technologies Inc. and gives consent to iWeb Technologies Inc. under applicable privacy laws for iWeb Technologies Inc. to obtain credit information and bank and other financial references regarding the Customer for the purposes of assessing the Customer's credit worthiness, and the Customer will promptly execute and deliver to iWeb Technologies Inc. such further documents and assurances and take such further actions as iWeb Technologies Inc. may from time to time reasonably request in order to carry out the intent and purpose of this Section.
    Somewhat hidden in the TOS, but there none-the-less...
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  7. #7
    This is a normal thing that happens in web based transactions. Credit card fraud is increasing at an alarming rate. The details you send to your hosting company helps protect them 6 months from now. There are those who would spend 6 months with a host using an expensive dedicated server only to to move to another hosts, call the bank and dispute the charge.. The hosting company looses if there is no proof. Hence the verification.
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
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    Quote Originally Posted by zendzipr View Post
    This is a normal thing that happens in web based transactions. Credit card fraud is increasing at an alarming rate. The details you send to your hosting company helps protect them 6 months from now. There are those who would spend 6 months with a host using an expensive dedicated server only to to move to another hosts, call the bank and dispute the charge.. The hosting company looses if there is no proof. Hence the verification.
    I agree, verification of identity details has become a necessity real quick due to the increasing fraud with credit card payments.
    People like to forget it's not the same as walking into a store and pay with a creditcard, it's online without any visual identification possibilities.
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
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    correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't it make more sense to request id BEFORE charging the card?
    requesting it afterwards seems kinda pointless to me.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by smenkhare View Post
    correct me if i'm wrong but wouldn't it make more sense to request id BEFORE charging the card?
    requesting it afterwards seems kinda pointless to me.
    It's not. Fraud detection only works _after_ you ran the card through the system.
    Companies have some choices to do that: 1. They can attempt a symbolic value first to check if the card is valid and data is OK (like a $1 charge) or 2. They can try an authorization for the full amount and then only later after ID manually confirmed if any red flag raises, is that they will commit the transaction for real. Such authorizations last from 3-7 days before expiring automatically - during this time, the authorized amount is on hold at the customer's card account, as if it were a purchase. Some banks return the hold to the customer after a longer time (10-30 days in some real stupid cases), but that is an issue between the bank and the card holder.

    The main difference between options #1 and #2 is that #1 generates two independent transactions. Each one carries a separate transaction fee (so it's doubled) as well as address screening fees, etc. Yet #2 will charge the vendor just a single transaction fee. So, depending on the final price and profit margin, is that a company may opt to go the #1 or #2 route.
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Quote Originally Posted by zendzipr View Post
    There are those who would spend 6 months with a host using an expensive dedicated server only to to move to another hosts, call the bank and dispute the charge.. The hosting company looses if there is no proof. Hence the verification.
    There is proof, you did provide them with 6 months of service. Do you even try to prove your case?

    So instead of hassling your customers, why not think of ways to prove that you provided service, maybe a 3rd party monitoring service?

    The IP address belongs to you, you can prove that and the customer is using it on his domain, that's easy to detect, just have a 3rd party check it each day and log it.

    Hire a CPA audit firm to come in and do it, have them check the physical server. Cheaper than losing 6 months pay.

    The host providers should all get together and take the banks on over their flawed credit card system.

    The banks have no reason to change the system because they put all the liability on the merchant. You have to stop bending over and taking it from the bankers! They should be protecting your business and your money!

    You will have to force them to change through economic means of some type, either a big huge lawsuit, or boycott them and go back to regular billing practices if it's getting so bad that you have to hassle a customer that you have a valid, confirmed charge with.

    Send the banks a notice monthly that shows you provided a service and give them 2 weeks to respond if they can prove otherwise. Then when they want to charge back you have solid proof.

    Why can't you people think outside the box?
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
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    Sykoi, can you please send me by PM your customer / order number. I will verify what I can do for you.

    Oh, by the way, if you send the documents today, pretty we can put your server online tomorrow (sunday).
    Sylvain Delisle
    Community Manager
    iWeb.com
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by web-1 View Post
    There is proof, you did provide them with 6 months of service. Do you even try to prove your case?

    So instead of hassling your customers, why not think of ways to prove that you provided service, maybe a 3rd party monitoring service?

    The IP address belongs to you, you can prove that and the customer is using it on his domain, that's easy to detect, just have a 3rd party check it each day and log it.

    Hire a CPA audit firm to come in and do it, have them check the physical server. Cheaper than losing 6 months pay.

    The host providers should all get together and take the banks on over their flawed credit card system.

    The banks have no reason to change the system because they put all the liability on the merchant. You have to stop bending over and taking it from the bankers! They should be protecting your business and your money!

    You will have to force them to change through economic means of some type, either a big huge lawsuit, or boycott them and go back to regular billing practices if it's getting so bad that you have to hassle a customer that you have a valid, confirmed charge with.

    Send the banks a notice monthly that shows you provided a service and give them 2 weeks to respond if they can prove otherwise. Then when they want to charge back you have solid proof.

    Why can't you people think outside the box?
    Apparently you have never had a chargeback to deal with before. If a client does a chargeback, the *only* thing you can do to dispute a charge is to send a signed document/agreement and any other proof you have (ie scanned card, etc..) to the credit card company. They won't take anything else. We have just been able to recover a good chunk of money by doing just that. We had 2 different clients get around 5 servers each through us, they passed initial fraud review, etc.. and then they did a chargeback after 1 month of service. We sent their banks their signed agreements and additional documents and we were able to recover the funds in full.

    As far as iWeb goes, there is nothing new to this tactic and we use it as well. However, what we do is, put the payment on 'hold' until we get the verification documents in from the client, so the card is not actually charged. If the customer is uncomfortable with this (we have had 1 client so far leave due to this, out of many), we simply cancel the order.
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  14. #14
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    Nothing's wrong with this pratice, if you cannot afford it, choose another place to host your stuff.
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  15. #15
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
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    360
    Quote Originally Posted by hosteur View Post
    Nothing's wrong with this pratice, if you cannot afford it, choose another place to host your stuff.
    It's in no way an issue of not being able to pay, I'm not sure where you got that from - it's the fact that I do not have any method of faxing, and the fact you have to fax isn't clearly stated before they charge your credit card.
    It may in fact be common practice, and it may be a smart thing to do, but up until now, dealing with EV1, The Planet, and Softlayer - I have never once been asked to fax anything, so I just assumed iWeb would be no different.

    Anyways that aside, I went into their live chat shortly after making this post and got ahold of David B from the sales department. I asked him to cancel my server - he informed he did, and my money would returned "shortly". I woke up this morning, and the money was still missing from my account, so I went and asked another sales person if my server was in fact canceled - it was, but now I have to call the billing department on Monday to actually get my money back.
    Awesome. I just lost 3 days because iWeb isn't clear on their requirements for purchasing a server, this isn't good especially when I don't have much time to move from Softlayer. I don't exactly want to risk buying a server elsewhere when my money may be tied up in iWeb for... Who knows how long.


    I'm sure iWeb is great if you own a fax machine and number, their support seems fast and from what I've heard their datacenter is good - they just don't want you as a customer if you don't own a fax machine. Go figure.


    Companies have some choices to do that: 1. They can attempt a symbolic value first to check if the card is valid and data is OK (like a $1 charge) or 2. They can try an authorization for the full amount and then only later after ID manually confirmed if any red flag raises, is that they will commit the transaction for real. Such authorizations last from 3-7 days before expiring automatically - during this time, the authorized amount is on hold at the customer's card account, as if it were a purchase. Some banks return the hold to the customer after a longer time (10-30 days in some real stupid cases), but that is an issue between the bank and the card holder.
    They did both a $1 charge and the full charge. The full charge happened beforehand, however.
    Last edited by Sykoi; 11-14-2009 at 04:50 PM.
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  16. #16
    The inability of a customer to verify ownership of a credit card raises screaming red fraud flags. In today's economy, no business can afford to take unreasonable risks when dealing with money.

    It is not the iWeb's fault that you do not own a fax machine or are not able to send a fax. Any business who works with credit cards and deals with PCI and threat assessment understand that there is risk and expense involved with taking credit cards. The cost of loosing one customer is much cheaper than 6 months of charge backs.

    Having to contact them on Monday is no surprise. Most hosting companies do not have billing or non-support staff on the weekend.
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  17. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
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    I can relate to the @op as I also never do business with companies that require extensive personal information. One vendor (no names) seemed to indicate that they were expecting prospective customers to fax/send them scanned copies of their credit card, drivers licenses, etc. An absolutely absurd expectation for anyone remotely concerned with protecting their identity from theft.

    In my opinion, the root of the problem is the credit card companies -- there are many options for them to secure credit card transactions to bring fraud to a near zero value, however they do not embrace it because they still make money off fraud (even though the consumer is mostly protected)

    Anyways, the bottom line is always read the TOS closely. I'm fine with giving a host my phone number, mailing (non-PO box) address, etc., but when they start asking for information that I consider personal they can kiss my business goodbye. Too many take security lightly and I don't want my personal data floating on the Internet when they are hacked.

    PS. In the past I have always preferred to use PayPal for online transactions, however I have read that PayPal does not recognize purchase of services (like web hosting) as something that you can dispute/get a refund for if you encounter a scam host. I've never had to file a dispute/charge back, but having the option is important to me.
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  18. #18
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by zendzipr View Post
    The inability of a customer to verify ownership of a credit card raises screaming red fraud flags. In today's economy, no business can afford to take unreasonable risks when dealing with money.

    It is not the iWeb's fault that you do not own a fax machine or are not able to send a fax. Any business who works with credit cards and deals with PCI and threat assessment understand that there is risk and expense involved with taking credit cards. The cost of loosing one customer is much cheaper than 6 months of charge backs.

    Having to contact them on Monday is no surprise. Most hosting companies do not have billing or non-support staff on the weekend.
    Yeah that's fine... Annoying but fine, what the issue at this point is the fact that I was not told beforehand - now I have to wait several days to make sure my funds are released (And not given back as "credit" for other iweb services, as a few other places do), because no where is it obvious and clearly stated, before you are charged, that they require you to fax them information. I must be extremely lucky or something, but this is the first time I have ever had to fax my credit card information to... Anyone. I've dealt with datacenters, countless online vendors (Even some that handle 4-digit+ orders), and so many others online... And I have never once ran into this issue. I can understand why they do this, that's not what this is about anymore - it's the fact that it is not stated before the order is processed that I will have to fax them, well... Anything.
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  19. #19
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    Why aren't the hosts complaining about chargebacks using the verified by visa system?
    I have not had any problem with chargebacks since using it.
    Absolute guarantee of no chargeback beats a faxed signature.

    Making people jump through hoops to become your customer is not a good business choice, asking people to fax stuff in the internet age is really silly.

    Who actually owns a fax machine in their home??
    And who wants to print stuff out and goto a store either.
    Unless your price is too good to pass up, Ill just look for somewhere else when sites ask me to do this.

    If you need a signature, use flash applet and have customer do a signature with the mouse, this is what merchant plus did when I signed up with them, awesome idea.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Host Ultra View Post
    Why aren't the hosts complaining about chargebacks using the verified by visa system?
    I have not had any problem with chargebacks since using it.
    Absolute guarantee of no chargeback beats a faxed signature.

    Making people jump through hoops to become your customer is not a good business choice, asking people to fax stuff in the internet age is really silly.

    Who actually owns a fax machine in their home??
    And who wants to print stuff out and goto a store either.
    Unless your price is too good to pass up, Ill just look for somewhere else when sites ask me to do this.

    If you need a signature, use flash applet and have customer do a signature with the mouse, this is what merchant plus did when I signed up with them, awesome idea.
    Unfortunately Banks are also cruel on this part. They will as you to go paperless and save the earth, but when it comes to disputes they are for actual physical statements or paperwork, so its in our own interest as being providers to have something of a hard copy.
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  21. #21
    Join Date
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    Location
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    This practice of sending in faxes of personal information is just wrong.

    Find a provider who doesn't do it.
    André Allen | E: aallen(a)linovus.ca
    Linovus Holdings Inc
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, VPS, Dedicated Servers & Public Cloud | USA, Canada & UK - 24x7x365 Support
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  22. #22
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    Closed by OP request.
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