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  1. #1

    Hivelocity - I will never use them again.

    I used to be a client with HiVelocity Servers. If you give them a credit card they will NOT stop charging it unless you have a fax/scanner. I have neither and I dont want to, but I may have to take this to legal matters. They refuse to stop charging me, my account is overdrawn by around $2000.

    Regards,

    jlane0
    Last edited by jlane0; 11-09-2009 at 06:49 PM.
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  2. #2
    You are able to change your payment information on your own from our SPEED customer portal. If you sign up for our service and pay with a credit card then we will automatically bill that card again on your anniversary date. This is common practice in the industry. If you wish to cancel we do have a PDF we ask that you fill out. If you dont have access to a fax or scanner we certainly make exceptions if you let us know the situation. We do not arbitrarily bill people at our whim. I have a feeling there is part of the story missing here.

    Either way, as always, all I want is happy customers and fair practice. Email me directly and I promise to personally look into your issue.
    Steve Eschweiler- Hivelocity- Director of Operations
    Bare Metal Servers. Colocation. Private Cloud.
    Customers in over 130 countries. Privately owned and operated data centers.
    Limited Supply Outlet Server Specials
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  3. #3
    Email Sent.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlane0 View Post
    If you give them a credit card they will NOT stop charging it unless you have a fax/scanner.
    For anyone in this situation with any supplier:

    If you tell your credit card company you have lost the card, they will send you a new one and decline payments on the old one.
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  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    If you tell your credit card company you have lost the card, they will send you a new one and decline payments on the old one.
    That's just silly. You enter into a legally binding contract that specifies how you need to cancel. If you can't follow the terms you agreed to, you deserve to be charged again. Canceling your credit card instead of following an agreed upon cancellation process is a bit absurd.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlane0 View Post
    I used to be a client with HiVelocity Servers. If you give them a credit card they will NOT stop charging it unless you have a fax/scanner. I have neither and I dont want to, but I may have to take this to legal matters.
    Be sure to show your lawyer the contract that you voluntarily agreed to that says what you need to do to cancel
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  7. #7
    WTF that doesn't even make any sense.. if it is really difficult to cancel thats just not cool.
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  8. #8
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    I read this and it brings me back to the early 90s when trying to cancel AOL.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahneeno View Post
    WTF that doesn't even make any sense.. if it is really difficult to cancel thats just not cool.
    Well, it *ought* to be difficult to cancel; you don't want just anyone calling up your service supplier and cancelling your servers!
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  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by JixHost View Post
    I read this and it brings me back to the early 90s when trying to cancel AOL.
    Evening Jose
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  11. #11
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    This post reminded I had to cancel some additional server so i didnt get re-billed
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by HivelocityGM View Post
    If you wish to cancel we do have a PDF we ask that you fill out. If you dont have access to a fax or scanner we certainly make exceptions if you let us know the situation.
    Does your provider not ordinarily accept telephone or online cancellations? :curious: A PDF request is usually required?

    -mike
    Mike G. - Limestone Networks - Account Specialist
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  13. #13
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    I guess PDF is done so a signature can be placed for legality. In the case of online or telephone, you cant be certain if its the real person who asks for cancellation and cannot be used as proper evidence. Most courts in the world still say the "word of mouth" is not as strong as the "written law/agreement". I assume HL takes PDF requests to ensure there is a digital or normal signature embedded for security as well as legal reasons.
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  14. #14
    Stuff happens, but I think Hivelocity are good guys - met Steve several years ago at hostingcon. Hope you'll resolve all the issues.
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  15. #15
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    I have read the post and agree. The cancellation policy needs to be strong enough to insure that some disgruntled employee can not cancel your servers. I know it probably seems like a pain to cancel but it is really for your own protection. It sounds like they will help so you should be fine.
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  16. #16
    I am sure my post will be followed with something from OP. Whether OP decides to post the facts or not we will see. As you all know anyone can post anything truthful or not here on WHT. All I can do is state the facts and hope the community reads through the half-truths and libel.

    1. OP emailed telling us to stop charging him. We replied promptly asking him for clarification on which server(s) he wanted to cancel. We also provided him with clear instruction on how to cancel. We did not hear back from OP. No calls, no emails, no chats and no trouble ticket. We were not told anything about a lack of fax or scanner.

    2. The initial email we received was actually after the renewal date of one server and not 24 hours before the renewal of another.

    3. OP claims he emailed us many times about the cancellation but has no record of those emails. We also do not have any records of those emails. I called OP today to discuss his complaint and asked for any information or proof he could provide to substantiate his case. Nothing could be provided to me. I also took a moment to explain why we try to get the signed cancelation if possible. Our reasons were recognized by others in this thread. People do try to cancel competitors or ex-employers servers.

    4. Prior to this post and other postings here on WHT claiming we somehow ripped OP off we were unaware of any issue. The last correspondence was from us exactly 1 month ago(email mentioned in item 1) with instruction on how to cancel.

    5. We searched our phone logs and see that we actually called OP a few weeks ago and left a voicemail. Our call was not returned.

    6. I have refused the refund.

    I always try to be fair and work something out where each party walks away satisfied. We are a customer service oriented company after all. However, it seems to becoming common practice to go on a smear campaign as part of an effort to get your demands, right or wrong. I hope you are all wise enough to recognize how simple it is to sling mud as an anonymous poster. Just because it is in print doesnt mean its true.
    Last edited by hivelocitygm; 11-10-2009 at 01:43 PM.
    Steve Eschweiler- Hivelocity- Director of Operations
    Bare Metal Servers. Colocation. Private Cloud.
    Customers in over 130 countries. Privately owned and operated data centers.
    Limited Supply Outlet Server Specials
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  17. #17
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    Where's our OP ??? as i always say WHT has become more of a complain shoutbox rather than being informative discussion forum.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    Well, it *ought* to be difficult to cancel; you don't want just anyone calling up your service supplier and cancelling your servers!
    true but What i meant was if its almost impossible to cancel your services than there is a problem with the customer service
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahneeno View Post
    true but What i meant was if its almost impossible to cancel your services than there is a problem with the customer service
    But it's not almost impossible to cancel; the OP basically didn't TRY to cancel. He ignored all attempts from HiVelocity to contact him.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nahneeno View Post
    true but What i meant was if its almost impossible to cancel your services than there is a problem with the customer service
    I doubt very much if it's "almost impossible to cancel".

    But if you read the post, the person says they gave instructions not to take any more money from their account, and it ended up $2000 overdrawn I think they said.

    I assume not all that $2000 was in server fees; so I'd guess they had a pretty severe financial problem, which meant they needed to cancel straight away, without giving the required 15 days notice.

    That kind of thing does happen. And when it does, the people with the problem aren't necessarily very good at explaining things to their service suppliers ... they may even be embarrassed to talk about it. And they are also not very good at seeing things from the supplier's point of view - the supplier *has* to have a cancellation method that protects them against accusations of incorrectly disconnecting servers.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    But if you read the post, the person says they gave instructions not to take any more money from their account, and it ended up $2000 overdrawn I think they said.
    HiVelocity reports that the OP mailed him and *CALLED* him, and he never got back to them. How critical could the situation really have been if the OP can't be bothered to get back to them?

    I can't fault any service provider who receives a cancellation request for NOT processing it if the person does not respond to attempts to verify that they really want it cancelled!
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guspaz View Post
    HiVelocity reports that the OP mailed him and *CALLED* him, and he never got back to them. How critical could the situation really have been if the OP can't be bothered to get back to them?
    Well, we don't know the poster's situation.

    My point was that it seems unlikely the $2000 was just the result of their server supplier payment (which it sounds as if they tried to cancel after the billing date anyway.)
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  23. #23
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    Sorry, I meant to say, HiVelocity reports that *they* mailed and called the OP.
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  24. #24
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    Sure send in 14 faxes in duplicate and a drop of blood. I think that when someone like Serverpronto does it everyone cries foul but now other providers are makign it way too difficult to cancel. They took the money without a signature didn't they? They have likely taken upgrade requests, support, reboot, rebuild requests but a cancellation needs to have the customer jump through hoops??
    André Allen | E: aallen(a)linovus.ca
    Linovus Holdings Inc
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, VPS, Dedicated Servers & Public Cloud | USA, Canada & UK - 24x7x365 Support
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolraul View Post
    Sure send in 14 faxes in duplicate and a drop of blood. I think that when someone like Serverpronto does it everyone cries foul but now other providers are makign it way too difficult to cancel. They took the money without a signature didn't they? They have likely taken upgrade requests, support, reboot, rebuild requests but a cancellation needs to have the customer jump through hoops??
    Such requests would happen through HiVelocity's ticket system in the customer portal. But the OP didn't open a ticket, the OP *emailed* HiVelocity asking to stop charging his card (which he could have apparently done himself by logging into the customer portal and changing his credit card info). When HiVelocity tried to get in touch with him by email and phone to verify, he did not reply...

    How exactly is that jumping through hoops?

    A customer portal account is at least conceivably verified; the customer requires a login and password in order to access it. E-mail has no such security. It's trivial to fake a mail so that it appears to come from wherever you want it to; the only hint that it might not be legit would be SPF.

    Should HiVelocity set up a new cancellation system which is simply a textbox on a public page, and they will immediately cancel any server owned by the name you type into that textbox? Or perhaps they should just cancel servers from anyone with a similar name just to be sure.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coolraul View Post
    Sure send in 14 faxes in duplicate and a drop of blood. I think that when someone like Serverpronto does it everyone cries foul but now other providers are makign it way too difficult to cancel. They took the money without a signature didn't they? They have likely taken upgrade requests, support, reboot, rebuild requests but a cancellation needs to have the customer jump through hoops??
    We don't generally take any money without a signature, or at least a verification phone call , so as a community leas ion , it doesn't really make sense to make such a post.
    Ceridius Networks Sales
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guspaz View Post
    Such requests would happen through HiVelocity's ticket system in the customer portal. But the OP didn't open a ticket, the OP *emailed* HiVelocity asking to stop charging his card (which he could have apparently done himself by logging into the customer portal and changing his credit card info). When HiVelocity tried to get in touch with him by email and phone to verify, he did not reply...

    How exactly is that jumping through hoops?

    A customer portal account is at least conceivably verified; the customer requires a login and password in order to access it. E-mail has no such security. It's trivial to fake a mail so that it appears to come from wherever you want it to; the only hint that it might not be legit would be SPF.

    Should HiVelocity set up a new cancellation system which is simply a textbox on a public page, and they will immediately cancel any server owned by the name you type into that textbox? Or perhaps they should just cancel servers from anyone with a similar name just to be sure.
    It is likely you will be able to generate the form from our NEW portal in the future , we may also implement a digital signature system like the banks have , but only if you cant digitally sign the paperwork for whatever reason (like you dont know what card you used to sign up or are unable to verify some detail related to the service) a fax would still be require , since 99% of our clients fax in the credit card auth form, I would suspect this is the case. I say we look for the records and port a blacked out credit card authorization form that references our cancellation policy right on the page.
    Ceridius Networks Sales
    Email/MSN [email protected]
    Ceridius Networks - Reseller of Hivelocity Hosting
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiVelocity View Post
    It is likely you will be able to generate the form from our NEW portal in the future , we may also implement a digital signature system like the banks have , but only if you cant digitally sign the paperwork for whatever reason (like you dont know what card you used to sign up or are unable to verify some detail related to the service) a fax would still be require , since 99% of our clients fax in the credit card auth form, I would suspect this is the case. I say we look for the records and port a blacked out credit card authorization form that references our cancellation policy right on the page.
    I actually remember writing the information down on a sheet of paper with my signature taking a photo and sending it
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  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiVelocity View Post
    We don't generally take any money without a signature, or at least a verification phone call , so as a community leas ion , it doesn't really make sense to make such a post.
    What does my opinion have to do with being a Liason. I think you make it too hard to cancel. As a former client who has actually had a pretty good experience with you I think I am entitled to my opinion.
    André Allen | E: aallen(a)linovus.ca
    Linovus Holdings Inc
    Shared Hosting, Reseller Hosting, VPS, Dedicated Servers & Public Cloud | USA, Canada & UK - 24x7x365 Support
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    Well, it *ought* to be difficult to cancel; you don't want just anyone calling up your service supplier and cancelling your servers!
    But then you also don't want to be charged for the following 6 months because it was so hard to cancel!
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  31. #31
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    Hivelocity is the only provider I know who needs you to sign some pdf docs scanned to cancel. It is impossible if the client does not have any scanner.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Hivelocity is the only provider I know who needs you to sign some pdf docs scanned to cancel. It is impossible if the client does not have any scanner.
    But as Steve said, If the customer does not have a scanner or a way to sign and send the documents, exceptions can be made.
    Although i do agree it is a bit extreme.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Hivelocity is the only provider I know who needs you to sign some pdf docs scanned to cancel. It is impossible if the client does not have any scanner.
    So then why would a client sign up for a service that they can't possibly cancel without a fax machine when they don't have one? They did read the terms of service beforehand right? Well, I would hope...
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  34. #34
    Can I suggest for parties to work out a deal between themselves and then to post an experience of how successfully they had it done? I think it will be much more interesting as well as everybody will learn from the past experience on what to do and what not to do?
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  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    Can I suggest for parties to work out a deal between themselves and then to post an experience of how successfully they had it done? I think it will be much more interesting as well as everybody will learn from the past experience on what to do and what not to do?
    We got a winner.
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by HivelocityGM View Post
    <<Snipped for quick reading>>
    1. I will guess either they landed in spam or the OP deleted them when he read them. Quite uncommon for people to delete e-mails.

    3 and 5, you called, then waited a few weeks. Seems a bit of a stretch, if there was an issue, I'd be calling first and then wait till the next day if they didn't pick up and then if no answer try again in 3 days. 3 weeks between calls is a bit of a stretch especially if the matter was urgent.

    6. Wouldn't blame you, $2,000 is a bit of money. Maybe you could of attempted a partial refund? Say last month payment? Heck I just hope you canceled it now.

    Also cancellations by PDF is a bit on the extreme side. You could easily of done it through sensitive data such as last 4 digits of CC on file or the security code on back. If they're through alternatives like paypal or something like Google which are easy to cancel from, have them confirm something like the last four digits of the subscription if any.

    I can almost guarantee that no employee will know the security code unless they sleep with their boss or something at which save it for the movies ok?
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  37. #37
    Hey WHTers. I wanted to repeat a few key points here since some folks are still crying foul over issues that have already been addressed.

    1. If a customer DOES NOT HAVE A FAX OR SCANNER they CAN STILL CANCEL the server rather easily. We just validate some information via email, phone or ticket. We prefer, I repeat PREFER, a signed pdf form be sent in so we have it for our records, can gather information about the reason for cancellation and can validate the request.

    2. We did not charge OP $2000, we did not charge OP anywhere near $2000. If OP account is $2k overdrawn it is not due to us.

    3.
    A big point here some of you are choosing to simply ignore is, as I stated previously, OP's first contact with us to cancel the servers was AFTER THE RENEWAL DATE OF 1 server and NOT 24 HOURS before the due date of another. He was not even within our billing policies!

    4. We have people working around the clock 24/7. Our support team is here 24/7 via phone, ticket and live chat. Our sales team is here 9am-2am via phone, ticket and chat Monday- Thursday and 9am-midnight on weekends. Our billing team is here 9am-5pm Monday- Friday. If someone wants to reach us, dispute a charge, change their credit card information, ask how to cancel, confirm our TOS, tell us they dont have a fax machine, complain about service, talk to the GM, request a refund, or any other thing, we are here! We dont require blood samples. All you have to do is log on to your computer or pick up your phone.
    Steve Eschweiler- Hivelocity- Director of Operations
    Bare Metal Servers. Colocation. Private Cloud.
    Customers in over 130 countries. Privately owned and operated data centers.
    Limited Supply Outlet Server Specials
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  38. #38
    They did not help me. In fact... Steve (HiVelocity GM) Called me and told me they wont do anything because I have no proof. As I formatted and lost my emails out of windows mail.... He SAID he would cancel.. But no refund. He also stated that I was telling 100% lies here on the forums - Which is a false statement, and I really dont like that. HiVelocity will get screwed over like they did me if they dont change their ways. That is fact. Good day to you all!
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  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    Well, we don't know the poster's situation.

    My point was that it seems unlikely the $2000 was just the result of their server supplier payment (which it sounds as if they tried to cancel after the billing date anyway.)
    I did contact them several times. They refuse to admit it. I talked to there salesperson *Rob* and he said he would get back to me. As I do have a voice recording. I tried to cancel and have been billed for 3 months AFTER I asked them to cancel... Please tell me 3 months would be a good enough notice.

    Steve: 2. We did not charge OP $2000, we did not charge OP anywhere near $2000. If OP account is $2k overdrawn it is not due to us.

    OK. Think about my $600 overdraw fees. As you have bounced the following
    House Payments
    Car Payments
    Medical Payments

    EDIT : I didnt sign a form. It was phone verification.
    Last edited by jlane0; 11-12-2009 at 05:13 PM.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by jlane0 View Post
    As I formatted and lost my emails out of windows mail....
    You say you're in a billing dispute for $2000, and you erased your mail (or formatted without backing up, same thing).

    PEBKAC. If your situation is indeed legitimate, then you made a very stupid mistake and have only yourself to blame for that part.
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