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  1. #1
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    Secret copyright treaty leaks. It's bad. Very bad.

    Does anyone know if the following information is accurate / legit?

    The internet chapter of the Anti-Counterfeiting Trade Agreement, a secret copyright treaty whose text Obama's administration refused to disclose due to "national security" concerns, has leaked. It's bad. It says:

    * That ISPs have to proactively police copyright on user-contributed material.
    Continue article at: http://www.boingboing.net/2009/11/03...right-tre.html

    http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/4510/125/

    Proactive policing user-contributed material? As far as I know, Section 230 of the Communications Decency Act (CDA) provided immunity to Internet providers, which also meant web hosts, forum publishers (such as WHT), etc. Does this new treaty change all of that?

    Is it even feasible for most providers to proactively police user-contributed material?

    What are your thoughts on all of this? How would it affect the web hosting, web publishing & even ISP industries?
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  2. #2
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    Anyone who is in a position to tell you whether the leaked information is accurate or not, is not going to do so.

    But judging from what has been leaked, yes. Laws can be changed, and the ACTA is more or less looking to rewrite national laws in order to lock down the Internet and much of the related technology on the behalf of the media companies.

  3. #3
    Limitation of freedoms from the U.S. Government is happening more often than not. The U.S. acts like the world police most of the time. The U.S. does not do anything for the people but themselves. The U.S. elects rich folks that do not represent the people. Our country acts more like a dictatorship than anything else. If you try to do anything about it, you will get arrested like everybody else or nobody Political will listen. More than 50% of people do not vote and I wonder why.

  4. #4
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    We already do have to police copyright on user contributed content, thank you DMCA

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlshosting View Post
    The U.S. elects rich folks that do not represent the people. Our country acts more like a dictatorship than anything else. If you try to do anything about it, you will get arrested like everybody else or nobody Political will listen. More than 50% of people do not vote and I wonder why.
    Sounds like China

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlshosting View Post
    The U.S. elects rich folks that do not represent the people.
    You mean like that bloke who made millions from being a community organiser and the son of a Kenyan man?

    I ask you this... would you rather have a rich businessman whos done well for himself or an "average" guy that knows nothing about the legal system, economy or how to manage a team?


    Quote Originally Posted by rlshosting View Post
    Our country acts more like a dictatorship than anything else. If you try to do anything about it, you will get arrested like everybody else
    Like who? The govt never threatned to lock you up because you voted the opposition and they never forced you to vote.



    Quote Originally Posted by rlshosting View Post
    More than 50% of people do not vote and I wonder why.
    Or... that 50% are a bunch of lazy morons that couldn't care less whos in power. If they really cared that much, why doesn't the 50% create their own political party?


    These laws are becoming very common across the world, I understand why the ISPs are being forced to do it. At the end of the day breaking copyright law is breaking the law and everyone has a responsibility to prevent the law from being broken. If the govt asked you to report any assaults you seen would you then deem that your civil rights are being removed from you?

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH-Scott View Post
    Or... that 50% are a bunch of lazy morons that couldn't care less whos in power. If they really cared that much, why doesn't the 50% create their own political party?
    Or that 50% is a made up statistic, and without the financial backing of some major players a new party is doomed to failure. It's all about advertising to win an election, and the one that has the most ads generally wins.
    Wealth and power beget wealth and power.
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  8. #8
    Independent Political parties never get elected in this country. Its either Republican or Democrat or Nothing.

    You can be an Average Guy and know what you are doing from exeprience. I would not like a person with millions of dollars be on a political party. Maybe a few thousand dollars. Not millions of dollars.

    Most people that I know do not agree with anything that our country says and nothing is done about it no matter what we say.

    Do you live in the U.S. right now or have in the past?

    Over 50 million people do not have health coverage and quite a few people do not have employment and our school systems have a high dropout rate and over 2 million people are in prison with over crowded jails.

    Our country is not very good. I doubt any country is. I do not think any system really works in favor of the people.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH-Scott View Post
    These laws are becoming very common across the world, I understand why the ISPs are being forced to do it. At the end of the day breaking copyright law is breaking the law and everyone has a responsibility to prevent the law from being broken. If the govt asked you to report any assaults you seen would you then deem that your civil rights are being removed from you?
    That's not the issue here. In my mind, the DMCA or at the very least the online part of it (featuring the OCILLA) is a good thing. It makes me, as the owner of a major image gallery site, not legally responsible for what other people post on my site, provided I meet the legal requirements in the OCILLA. The most important part of this is cooperating with copyright holders to keep their material off my site, which I do very well. And at the end of the day, the law protects me against lawsuits for what other people do.

    The ACTA, as it is worded here, would explicitly give me legal responsibility for everything anyone posted on my site. It would give anyone running any form of online service legal liability for other people's actions. If you run a forum, an image sharing site, any form of file upload site like RapidShare, a video sharing site like YouTube, and even any form of site where people can post text or comments, you would have responsibility for everything that happens on your site. It's like being sued for murder if someone kills someone else in your front yard.

    And the same would apply to any third party hosting provider, from the upstream bandwidth provider to data centers and all the way down to small web hosts.

    Mark my words, if this goes through as written here, three years from now Pastebin is going to be sued because someone had the audacity to post the lyrics to "Happy Birthday to You".

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by rlshosting View Post
    Independent Political parties never get elected in this country. Its either Republican or Democrat or Nothing.

    You can be an Average Guy and know what you are doing from exeprience. I would not like a person with millions of dollars be on a political party. Maybe a few thousand dollars. Not millions of dollars.

    Most people that I know do not agree with anything that our country says and nothing is done about it no matter what we say.

    Do you live in the U.S. right now or have in the past?

    Over 50 million people do not have health coverage and quite a few people do not have employment and our school systems have a high dropout rate and over 2 million people are in prison with over crowded jails.

    Our country is not very good. I doubt any country is. I do not think any system really works in favor of the people.
    Well... perhaps if the 50% were to work a little bit harder they could see some change, even if they donated $10 each you would have a rather large amount of money to play with.

    In my country, there were two major political parties who have been winning for hundreds of years, along came a bunch of students who didn't agree with what they stood for and they are now in charge of the govt. Took a while to get it done, but sitting moaning about it isn't going to do anything.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH-Scott View Post
    If the govt asked you to report any assaults you seen would you then deem that your civil rights are being removed from you?
    The problem is not being asked, most people would agree to that,
    but being 'TOLD' you must do something is very diff.
    using your example,
    yes I'd normaly report an assult,
    no I would not accept I was law breaking if I didn't.

    and as I'm posting 'Proactive' is a fictional ward created my 'marketing gurus'
    in the 80's !
    The correct word [for old timers like me] is simply 'active' .
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  12. #12
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    Gotta love the lobbyists... always wining and dining the people that should be representing us so they can get the best interests of their corporate customers put into law!

    Pretty soon we'll all be sued for breathing because someone has a patent on a "device that exchanges stale air for fresh air."

    But seriously, I understand protecting valid intellectual property, but we just keep pushing the boundaries of what is fair and rational.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RH-Scott View Post
    In my country, there were two major political parties who have been winning for hundreds of years, along came a bunch of students who didn't agree with what they stood for and they are now in charge of the govt. Took a while to get it done, but sitting moaning about it isn't going to do anything.
    The cost of entry in US politics is much higher. You have to realize that our "Laissez-faire-on-steriods" approach has allowed businesses to not only flourish, but also to control legislation... this is nothing new though, it has been going on since the country was founded. Combine that with the fact that some of the same corporations own the media outlets, and you'll see why most of the candidates that truly want to work for and with the people will get nowhere because they have no corporate backing, and no media exposure. The average American will never even know who these "good guys" are!

    (Note that this is not in reference to any specific party, this applies to all of them.)

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeris View Post
    the online part of it (featuring the OCILLA) is a good thing. It makes me, as the owner of a major image gallery site, not legally responsible for what other people post on my site
    This is a great thing. The community aspect of the net would not be anything like it is today if it were not for the concept of individuals being responsible for themselves. Making the service providers responsible would be very detrimental to the Internet as well as even freedom in general.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeris View Post
    at the end of the day, the law protects me against lawsuits for what other people do.
    That's exactly how it should be. You, as a publisher, should never be held responsible for the actions of another party. The violators themselves should be held responsible.

    Quote Originally Posted by aeris View Post
    The ACTA, as it is worded here, would explicitly give me legal responsibility for everything anyone posted on my site. It would give anyone running any form of online service legal liability for other people's actions. If you run a forum, an image sharing site, any form of file upload site like RapidShare, a video sharing site like YouTube, and even any form of site where people can post text or comments, you would have responsibility for everything that happens on your site. It's like being sued for murder if someone kills someone else in your front yard.

    And the same would apply to any third party hosting provider, from the upstream bandwidth provider to data centers and all the way down to small web hosts.

    Mark my words, if this goes through as written here, three years from now Pastebin is going to be sued because someone had the audacity to post the lyrics to "Happy Birthday to You".
    This is what I'm concerned about. This treaty is looking to have extremely bad ramifications for web hosts, web publishers, forum operators, image hosts, ISPs, etc, etc.
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  15. #15
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    you americans voted the crap who prepared these documents. it was GOP senate and congress which prepared this in between 2006-2007.

    enjoy.

    bend your senator's ear on that issue. dont give them time to breathe. hammer them. if you dont keep them in check, more of this will follow.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by unity100 View Post
    you americans voted the crap who prepared these documents. it was GOP senate and congress which prepared this in between 2006-2007.

    enjoy.

    bend your senator's ear on that issue. dont give them time to breathe. hammer them. if you dont keep them in check, more of this will follow.
    A senator or representative that listens to their constituents? Where? I thought they all ignore your letters and continue with their own agenda, hoping you forget when it comes time to re-elect them.

    Funny that this was from 2006-2007 yet we're just now finding out about it. I hope we're on track for a little more transparency, but that's probably just wishful thinking.

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