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  1. #1
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    USA PATRIOT Act how it effects us

    If anybody cares to learn look here for the basics
    http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Surveilla..._analysis.html

    I spent the better part of the day getting my lawyer to interperet certain parts of it.

    so here is the summary that I was told that I have to live with.

    1) I have to place on my tos / aup that the log files have a specific cycle life within the system

    2) without a court order, any server that I have access to within the USA I have to turn over the log files. All they have to do is call and ask for it.

    3) forgien servers that I control might be subjected to same rules.

    so overall I have a new layer of paperwork to deal with on a daily basis.

    thought you would all like to know

    Mike
    I am Mike From ADEHOST.Com, Multidomain Windows hosting with Cold Fusion and ASP and Dot.NET Also offering multi-domain Unix hosting. silently, each one should ask, Have I done my daily task. Have I kept my honor bright, can I sleep without guilt tonight. Have I done and have I did, everything, to be prepared. - our motto to maintain services.

  2. #2
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    Curious as I have not had time for someone to look this over. How does this affect affiliate programs and resellers? 2checkout seems to think it has changed the relationship, has it?

    Thanks

    Chet

  3. #3
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    Uhh ... yeah, you didn't know about this ... it's been in effect for over a year.

    It's major, and a violation of many american's rights. This is now the law, and as hosts, yes, we must abide by it. I didn't have a lawyer go through it, but I've read it myself and have a good understanding of everything it states. If you have any questions feel free to ask.

  4. #4
    Yeah it's great to live in such a free country.

    And I especially appreciate the fact that since it's called the Patriot Act, if I do not like the increased restrictions, I guess I'm not a patriot.

    The founding fathers must be rolling their eyes in their graves.

  5. #5
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    most likely it will be repelled or changed in one way or another. just think of MaCartherism. let's do a red hunt ....

    anyway just abide by the rules and write your congress and senators.

    also don't forget to vote

    Mike
    I am Mike From ADEHOST.Com, Multidomain Windows hosting with Cold Fusion and ASP and Dot.NET Also offering multi-domain Unix hosting. silently, each one should ask, Have I done my daily task. Have I kept my honor bright, can I sleep without guilt tonight. Have I done and have I did, everything, to be prepared. - our motto to maintain services.

  6. #6
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  7. #7
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    Originally posted by IntraHost
    Right after the 911 attacks we voluntarrily gave up log files for a user (upon the users request) and sent them to the FBI.

    I don't see a problem with protecting freedom.
    So you're willing to turn over everything you do in your life to be collected into a giant database?

    We're talking phone records, credit card records, what you do on the internet, etc.

    You'd do that for the sake of freedom?

    If we don't have privacy, then how do we have freedom?

    I'll wait for the day when they start monitoring our thoughts, where we all are truely free, and criminalize us for thinking anything negative.

    When that happens... time for another revolution.

  8. #8
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    Re: USA PATRIOT Act how it effects us

    Originally posted by ADEhost
    2) without a court order, any server that I have access to within the USA I have to turn over the log files. All they have to do is call and ask for it.
    Fight that one as unconstitutional. That falls under search and seizures limits.

    by MyBrotherDan
    The founding fathers must be rolling their eyes in their graves.
    Yes, they are.

    They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

    --Benjamin Franklin, 1759

  9. #9
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    Ah, makes me glad I'm not in the US
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  10. #10
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    Originally posted by achost_ca
    Ah, makes me glad I'm not in the US
    Well, it does affect you as well... read the part about foreign organisations...
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  11. #11
    I think we are well prepared for the USPA and i may note it will probably be revised by mid next year due to the fact it isnt totally constitutional
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  12. #12
    But isn't it a US law?

  13. #13
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    How would it affect investor's trust?
    Last edited by ForumsAddict; 11-22-2002 at 06:43 PM.

  14. #14
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    ForumsAddict ... sorry, I'm a grammar freak.

    When you used "effect", the correct word to use was "affect"

  15. #15
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    sorry..

  16. #16
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    All I gotta say is:
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails bigbro.jpg  

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by achost_ca
    Ah, makes me glad I'm not in the US
    Oh forgot a small catch,

    if the servers are in the USA, the datacenter will be required to pull the log files, simple. that's why many firms that are offshore but hold a server in the USA are rather nervous because this.

    But at the same time this would also make us on equal footing with most of europe when it comes to industrial spying at a government level. ( france and china being the top at it currently (

    MIke
    I am Mike From ADEHOST.Com, Multidomain Windows hosting with Cold Fusion and ASP and Dot.NET Also offering multi-domain Unix hosting. silently, each one should ask, Have I done my daily task. Have I kept my honor bright, can I sleep without guilt tonight. Have I done and have I did, everything, to be prepared. - our motto to maintain services.

  18. #18
    I have a quick question, as orginally posted in the first post, what is the life cycle of log files required, is there a minimum amount of time, and I have yet to see the question answered as to how this affects resellers, wouldn't the host that the reseller be required to hold the logs, though if they didn't and it was the reseller's client I imagine the reseller would still be held accountable.
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  19. #19
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    Originally posted by MyBrotherDan
    Yeah it's great to live in such a free country.

    And I especially appreciate the fact that since it's called the Patriot Act, if I do not like the increased restrictions, I guess I'm not a patriot.

    The founding fathers must be rolling their eyes in their graves.
    Yeah damn straight. Sounds more like 1933-1945 GERMANY...

  20. #20
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    "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"

    They spent many months coming up with the proper acronym...

    Anyone with a basic psychological understanding knows what they're trying to do.

    Laws keep becoming broader (DMCA) and broader:

    http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mess...hreadid=126042

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by clockwork
    "Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act"

    They spent many months coming up with the proper acronym...

    Anyone with a basic psychological understanding knows what they're trying to do.

    Laws keep becoming broader (DMCA) and broader:

    http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/mess...hreadid=126042
    I see. Gaining World Power didn't fit into the initials...

  22. #22
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    One little obscure program here

    Another program here

    Terrorists attack and it's all grouped into:

    http://www.darpa.mil/iao/programs.htm
    dotGig
    <:<: [Fruit eating linux administrator]

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by Samuel
    One little obscure program here

    Another program here

    Terrorists attack and it's all grouped into:

    http://www.darpa.mil/iao/programs.htm
    It's lovely to have that run by a convicted felon (later acquited) during the Iran-Contra incidents.

    Have to love the theme of the eye looking over the world (mostly Asia.. hmmm...).

    For a good read, I suggest everyone have a look at "Rulers of Evil" (search for it on Amazon). Great book, lots of facts.

  24. #24
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    This is ridiculous. What if I use software that doesn't generate logs?

  25. #25
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    FBI/CIA/NSA/*** rules....

  26. #26
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    But we gotta live with it

  27. #27
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    Americans, should be horrified! This is downright wrong and against the basics of how this country was formed.

    This is abusive politcs at it's best. We ALL should be scared to death that the constitution is getting crumbled.

    God help us all.
    Joe - HostingWave.Com / TXINSURANCE.COM
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  28. #28
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    Originally posted by intraweb
    God help us all.
    God helps those who write their congresscritters and vote.

  29. #29
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    Originally posted by living_media
    God helps those who write their congresscritters and vote.
    That's not going to happen, because as usual some 80 year technophobe suggested this law and people will not do anything to stop this, because they got their face in the potato chip bag. Politicians know that people won't do anything and they can get away with it.

  30. #30
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    ......write your congress and senators.

    also don't forget to vote..............
    Wouldn't you get all your citizen's views ignored quicker if you cut the middle men out (congress) and sent your letters straight to the supreme court? Especially now the US is no longer a constitutional democaracy.

  31. #31
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    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove


    Especially now the US is no longer a constitutional democaracy.

  32. #32
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    *scratches head*

    I thought we were always a Representative Democracy or some crap like that... a true democracy would be where every citizen voted on every issue right?

    Oh well, I'm not into the intricals of politics anyways so I don't know much in this area
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  33. #33
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    We do have the right to vote on every single issue. The fact is people don't care.

  34. #34
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    offtopic

    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove
    Especially now the US is no longer a constitutional democaracy.
    ok I'm involved rather deeply in local government ( i'm the guy at city council meetings with 3000 signatures telling local council members that they did wrong ( or right ) ), So please tell me when we lost our constitutional democaracy?

    if your talking about the florida count issue then that was fought in court, popular vote issue ... show's you how tricky the game is and how much we let congress get away with.
    I am Mike From ADEHOST.Com, Multidomain Windows hosting with Cold Fusion and ASP and Dot.NET Also offering multi-domain Unix hosting. silently, each one should ask, Have I done my daily task. Have I kept my honor bright, can I sleep without guilt tonight. Have I done and have I did, everything, to be prepared. - our motto to maintain services.

  35. #35
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    Mike the US is rapidly being turned into an authoritarian state.

    There was the matter of Florida and the President Select stuff. Once revered throughout the world now we have election monitors visiting from Russia and Albania to observe Florida elections.

    I was mainly referring to the subject matter of this thread. There is a rapid program of “legislation” being passed that runs directly counter to many of the freedoms and rights enshrined in the constitution. The constitution is thus being thrown away, ignored and marginalized. Nobody seems to care or realize.

    Kissinger gave the world the model in Pinochet’s Chile. Now that is what the US is to become.

    Further thoughts: discuss. Both Hitler and the Roman Establishment used the notion of external threats to dump inconvenient rights, especially when their economy was in decline. Not widely known Rome of the turn of that millennium was previously actually a republic which became ruled by an all- powerful emperor as deemed necessary to protect the people of Rome from outside terrorists. The Romans burnt their city and Hitler torched his own Reichstag.

  36. #36
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    Originally posted by Dr Strangelove

    Further thoughts: discuss. Both Hitler and the Roman Establishment used the notion of external threats to dump inconvenient rights, especially when their economy was in decline. Not widely known Rome of the turn of that millennium was previously actually a republic which became ruled by an all- powerful emperor as deemed necessary to protect the people of Rome from outside terrorists. The Romans burnt their city and Hitler torched his own Reichstag.
    The place where Washington D.C. is now used to be called Rome. Interesting, wouldn't you say?

    Moved from Philadelphia to Rome for what reason?

    Really -- Go buy "Rulers of Evil", I bet you'll start reading and won't stop until it is finished.

  37. #37
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    dotGig
    <:<: [Fruit eating linux administrator]

  38. #38
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    well, maybe we need a serious wake up call. Pinochet’s Chile had death squads and a few other nasty things. maybe it's time for a tyrant to rule and crush everything. maybe the tyrant will rule with justice and force the poor and the rich to work together.
    maybe, just maybe, this tyrant will rule for the people at the cost to the people for the net gain of the people.

    Good example is what we have in the USA.
    that is :

    A) people screaming " Not in my backyard " when it comes to power plants

    b) cell towers on top and near schools ... what the heck is that all about, poision the kids on a long term scale. keep it away from schools.

    c) waste. the consumers of the USA waste more than any other culture I know. Who the heck needs an SUV, as much as I want to own one I won't because I know that the gas consumed is way too much for so little extra. I get a good laugh at those tree huggers driving SUV's by themselves to the market.

    well anyway, when I'm sitting on 3000 acres of land and the revolution comes knocking to take my home I will make sure they get a broad side that will flatten them back to hell.
    I am Mike From ADEHOST.Com, Multidomain Windows hosting with Cold Fusion and ASP and Dot.NET Also offering multi-domain Unix hosting. silently, each one should ask, Have I done my daily task. Have I kept my honor bright, can I sleep without guilt tonight. Have I done and have I did, everything, to be prepared. - our motto to maintain services.

  39. #39
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    Do any of you guys know if the constitution applies to non-residents? Can people get deported without due process?

  40. #40
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    Do any of you guys know if the constitution applies to non-residents?
    Doesn't much apply to anyone now

    Can people get deported without due process
    Certainly can. Guantanamo Bay, anyone?

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