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  1. #1
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    Does the iPhone violate Nokia patents?

    Interesting story.

    Nokia, the world’s largest cellphone maker, sued Apple on Thursday, claiming the iPhone violates 10 patents for wireless transmission technologies.

    The iPhone, which was introduced by Apple in 2007, uses two industry standards for wireless communications, G.S.M. and U.M.T.S., that Nokia developed as part of a consortium of global telecommunications companies. Nokia said it had repeatedly asked Apple to license its patents related to these standards and that Apple had refused.
    See In Lawsuit, Nokia Says iPhone Infringes Its Patents in the New York Times.

    Do you think that the iPhone may be infringing upon those Nokia patents? Or is Nokia blowing smoke?

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  2. #2
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    Don't know enough to make a judgement I'm afraid, it will be an interesting case though. Anyone know which country the complaint has been filed?

    Nokia obviously think they have a case, so we shall see if they do win it's going to be a huge amount of money.

  3. #3
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsh View Post
    Ironic how they file the suit the same week Apple made a killing.
    Lol, yes. Coincidental timing? :p Hmm....

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  5. #5
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    Several other communications companies, including Sony Ericsson and Samsung, also contributed technology to the G.S.M. standards. These firms typically license their patents to each other at no cost, said Roger Entner, a senior vice president for telecommunications research at Nielsen.

    Handset makers not part of this group typically pay royalties — but Apple has not. “Apple is a Johnny Come Lately and has not paid its dues to the club,” Mr. Entner said.
    They may be onto something...

    But yea.. according to the article. 7.4Million iphones x $12 is quite a bit of coins
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  6. #6
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    Nothing interesting will come of this. 10 years from now apple and nokia will settle behind closed doors. End of story.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike - Limestone View Post
    . . . Do you think that the iPhone may be infringing upon those Nokia patents? Or is Nokia blowing smoke?
    Nokia is losing money while Apple is rolling in it. You do the math.
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  8. #8
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    I'm a big Apple fan.

    However, I think Nokia has some merit.

    But I don't know enough about the patents to call either way.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by hycloud View Post
    I'm a big Apple fan.

    However, I think Nokia has some merit.

    But I don't know enough about the patents to call either way.
    Same thoughts here, I suppose. I wish I knew more patent specifics.

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  10. #10
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    Over 40 other phone makers are paying nokia royalty rights, I think they have a case.

  11. #11
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    Last week, Nokia said its share of the global smartphone market slipped to 35 percent in the third quarter, from 41 percent in the second, as its competitors Apple and Research In Motion, the maker of the BlackBerry, gained.

    As communications equipment sales decline, manufacturers are looking to be more aggressive in making money from their patent portfolios, said Neil Mawston, an analyst at Strategy Analytics in London. “The intellectual property rights wars are ramping up in the handset industry now,” he said.
    'nuff said.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    'nuff said.
    So? This has nothing to do with the actual merits of the claim.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    So? This has nothing to do with the actual merits of the claim.
    Read the article. It's to do with the motive of the claim. The "merits" will be tested in a court of law, and that is no doubt going to be a long and tedious process. Motive = money and "merits" = decided by the court/s.

    Bottom line is Nokia are serious losing market share to Apple's iPhone and they need to recoup some of these losses by trying to monetize some of their intellectual property rights, or patents. So if you can't beat your competitors in the marketplace, try and beat them in the courts.
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  14. #14
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    Lol, Nokia are just sad because Apple killed them

  15. #15
    Funny how these large companies such as Nokia need 2 years since the iPhone release to come up with this patent infringement.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by denisbkk View Post
    Funny how these large companies such as Nokia need 2 years since the iPhone release to come up with this patent infringement.
    Nokia pinged RIM for pretty much the same patent royalties last year, and RIM paid up, in an undisclosed settlement/deal.

    Nokia's market share is sliding badly, with other players like RIM and Apple taking market share. Last quarter (Q3) Nokia posted a US$832,000,000.00 LOSS, while Apple's profits were up dramatically, from US$1.14B to US$1.67B. That's a 24% jump. Very impressive the way the market judges Apple's products.

    I had some Nokia phones many years back, but they're fast losing market share to RIM and especially Apple. I'd be real worried if I was holding Nokia shares.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    Nokia is losing money while Apple is rolling in it. You do the math.
    I agree with your comment, I reckon that Nokia are Jealous of the iPhone

    My last Nokia broke.. Fail

    Does anyone remember the Nokia 3310....? The one time everyone in the world had the same mobile

  18. #18
    This is completely a money game on Nokia's part. An effort to boost their sales and mess with Apples because they can make it look like Apple stole from them. These are INDUSTRY STANDARD technologies.

  19. #19
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    Always been a fan of Blackberry personally. One of the newer Nokia phones looked promising but also looked quite a bit bloated especially with a $400-$500 price tag. With phones that expensive and no one locally really carrying them, it's no wonder they are losing money.

    Verizon & AT&T pretty much carry LG, Samsung, Sony, RIM and Apple products now. T-Mobile carries cheaper products and HTC and Sprint/Nextel is following suit. They only difference is that they carry the Palm products.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by [Vissol] Chris View Post
    This is completely a money game on Nokia's part. An effort to boost their sales and mess with Apples because they can make it look like Apple stole from them. These are INDUSTRY STANDARD technologies.
    That's why all these cell phone makers are paying royalties to Nokia right ?
    Last edited by lonea; 10-23-2009 at 03:41 PM.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael-DAS View Post
    Always been a fan of Blackberry personally. One of the newer Nokia phones looked promising but also looked quite a bit bloated especially with a $400-$500 price tag. With phones that expensive and no one locally really carrying them, it's no wonder they are losing money.

    Verizon & AT&T pretty much carry LG, Samsung, Sony, RIM and Apple products now. T-Mobile carries cheaper products and HTC and Sprint/Nextel is following suit. They only difference is that they carry the Palm products.
    It is true that in the US most carriers do not carry very many Nokia handsets, but they are much more popular in other parts of the world, especially in Europe.

    The handset you're referring to at a $400-500 price tag is probably unlocked, as opposed to subsidized handsets through a carrier that will always be cheaper, simply because they generally carry a two-year contract and are locked to that specific carrier. A Nokia E71x smartphone on AT&T is just $99 with contract.

    Personally I own a Nokia E71 (unlocked) and it is an excellent phone, better than any BlackBerry I have used for sure. Now if you were to compare this (and other Nokia products) to the iPhone, I feel that the target market and function of the device is quite different. The E71 shines in getting things done very fast (multi-tasking is very fluid and hardly slows down the phone), whereas an iPhone (or similar device) is better for multimedia, etc. With the release of devices such as the N900, I feel that Nokia will be catching up in this regard, and should be able to gain back some market share.

    Quote Originally Posted by [Vissol] Chris View Post
    This is completely a money game on Nokia's part. An effort to boost their sales and mess with Apples because they can make it look like Apple stole from them. These are INDUSTRY STANDARD technologies.
    Nokia is a pioneer in the cell phone/wireless industry, and have in may ways set the very standards you speak of. So regardless of motive, I believe these claims do hold some merit.
    Last edited by layer0; 10-23-2009 at 09:27 PM.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by [Vissol] Chris View Post
    This is completely a money game on Nokia's part. These are INDUSTRY STANDARD technologies.
    Yes it is a money game. Would you leave about a $100 million sitting on the table?
    Yes they are industry standards that Nokia invented and owns the patents on.
    Stop being an Apple fanboy and open your eyes.
    Every other major handset maker pays Nokia their royalty payments, it is about $2.00 to $12.00 per phone sold.
    Nokia has been in talks with Apple about the payments since the Iphone was released Apple refuses to pay so it is up to the courts now to decide.
    In the end Apple will settle they just want to pay a lower fee than evenyone else.

  23. #23
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    It's standard stuff apparently in the IP game. RIM only started paying Nokia royalties in Dec 08, and they've been doing phones for years before that, so it's not like RIM started paying as soon as they started making phones. Nokia themselves settled in a HUGE US$2.2B payment to Qualcom, over IP related issues. It's a complex dance.

    Legal action is just part of the Intellectual Property negotiating process. The courts will make the call and Apple and Nokia will go by that.
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aussie Bob View Post
    It's standard stuff apparently in the IP game. RIM only started paying Nokia royalties in Dec 08, and they've been doing phones for years before that, so it's not like RIM started paying as soon as they started making phones.
    Did RIM start paying as a result of a lawsuit or lawsuit threat, or did they decide on their own?

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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by layer0 View Post
    It is true that in the US most carriers do not carry very many Nokia handsets, but they are much more popular in other parts of the world, especially in Europe.

    The handset you're referring to at a $400-500 price tag is probably unlocked, as opposed to subsidized handsets through a carrier that will always be cheaper, simply because they generally carry a two-year contract and are locked to that specific carrier. A Nokia E71x smartphone on AT&T is just $99 with contract.

    Personally I own a Nokia E71 (unlocked) and it is an excellent phone, better than any BlackBerry I have used for sure. Now if you were to compare this (and other Nokia products) to the iPhone, I feel that the target market and function of the device is quite different. The E71 shines in getting things done very fast (multi-tasking is very fluid and hardly slows down the phone), whereas an iPhone (or similar device) is better for multimedia, etc. With the release of devices such as the N900, I feel that Nokia will be catching up in this regard, and should be able to gain back some market share.



    Nokia is a pioneer in the cell phone/wireless industry, and have in may ways set the very standards you speak of. So regardless of motive, I believe these claims do hold some merit.

    Friend of mine already has the N900 in the states, gotta love Singapore.
    Not sure what to put here :-P

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooseweb View Post
    Friend of mine already has the N900 in the states, gotta love Singapore.
    Very cool. That handset should definitely be a game changer, especially if coupled with Project Dark on T-Mobile.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike - Limestone View Post
    Did RIM start paying as a result of a lawsuit or lawsuit threat, or did they decide on their own?
    Not sure about that. RIM only started paying Nokia royalties in Dec 08, so that's a fair few years into the game for RIM.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mooseweb View Post
    Friend of mine already has the N900 in the states, gotta love Singapore.
    One of my friends also has one, too. His sister is a Nokia employee overseas and receives free phones periodically (1x a year?) that she sends him.

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