Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 70
  1. #1

    * cheap colo for content delivery network?

    Hi,

    we have a broadcast network for about 200 tvs and 1300 radio stations and looking for a datacenter to get cheap dedicated bandwidth and space for our servers.

    * 1 to 4 gbit bw
    * 1 full secure cabinet
    * 20 amp power
    * c class ip
    * non tech help
    * 2 years contract
    * north america or europe

    He.net, uberbandwidth and fdc are lowest rates as i have found on the net. what would you recommend? any reviews about those (and other) dcs?


    Thanks

    Engin

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    762
    I've really been pleased with FDC's network, although if I had multiple servers and location wasn't an issue I probably would go with uberbandwidth.

  3. #3
    Checkout Atlanta http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=893967 I'm sure they can get you a deal at 1GB+

  4. #4
    I would also recommend checking out http://www.corexchange.com you can talk to Trey Berndt over there.

    They have a full mesh of 6 top tier bandwidth providers, and my guess is at that commitment level is that Trey could get pretty close to that HE.net pricing.

    Being in the middle of the U.S. it should help with latency throughout the continent.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    986
    Hi Engin,

    What particular cities are you interested in POP'ing out for your CDN?
    Corey Northcutt | Northcutt
    Competitive inbound marketing with a hosting industry competency.
    Social | Content | Optimization | Outreach

  6. #6
    Once you'll go below certain price point you may have problems with quality of services. I wouldn't recommend neither any single provider (like he.net), neither second tier providers in the network mix.
    Probably Internap will be the best, but their pricing could be too high for you - you may want to find something in between, but on the bottom of the price/quality companies.
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    337
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with tier 2 providers tulix. You bash them alot however if you actually realize it only creates a 1ms or less hop between yourself and the tier 1 providers on that blends network and in turn you pay 1/3 of the cost. I cant mention names but I wonder why major CDN's use combinations of tier 2's and not tier 1's. I really would love to hear your standpoint.
    Gary Simat
    COLO@ Colocation. Perfected.
    Atlanta - Dallas - Phoenix - Weehawken - Los Angeles - Chicago
    Total Server Solutions - Servers - US Based Support - Server Management

  8. #8
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with tier 2 providers garysimat Turbo 911 - $140K, Saturn $15K (?), difference 50 Mph (may be). It is all about marketing (and guaranteed quality )
    Actually I don't have my standpoint. I agree with you, tier 2 providers is an excellent choice for the network Is there any Tier 3 providers? They are probably even better, one more 1ms and 1/6 of the price
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Florida
    Posts
    337
    You don't really get guaranteed quality with Tier 1's, you do not get guaranteed quality with tier 2's either. It is all up to you to diversify your network and optimize it how you see fit. IE: Internap which is not a tier 1 will guarantee uptime and quality because that is the product they are selling.
    Gary Simat
    COLO@ Colocation. Perfected.
    Atlanta - Dallas - Phoenix - Weehawken - Los Angeles - Chicago
    Total Server Solutions - Servers - US Based Support - Server Management

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by garysimat View Post
    You don't really get guaranteed quality with Tier 1's, you do not get guaranteed quality with tier 2's either. It is all up to you to diversify your network and optimize it how you see fit. IE: Internap which is not a tier 1 will guarantee uptime and quality because that is the product they are selling.
    And?...

    Not sure if the answer actually responds to my post, especially about 3-rd tier providers

    Whatever is cheaper is not always worse, but in majority of cases is...

    I don't want to argue about obvious things...
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Bay Area
    Posts
    1,211
    Akamai uses a lot of HE.

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by RackPoint-Morgan View Post
    Akamai uses a lot of HE.
    Cachefly uses alot of Nlayer, Limelight has their own transit network llnw, etc, etc.

    The point of a CDN and content distribution is not to use top tier carriers to deliver all your content from a few central locations, the intent is to distribute and get as close to the eyeball as possible and take the cheapest path to get there with the greatest efficiency. Tier-2 ISPs and small regionals generally have the greatest accessibility to *local* eyeballs.

    Not much to argue about here, you aren't going to have any benefit other that a bullet point on your marketing collateral if you use "Pure Tier1 transit" to which there are still alot of carriers that claim to be "Tier 1" and are not, example Cogent's recent marketing push. They are still not settlement free.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post

    The point of a CDN and content distribution is not to use top tier carriers to deliver all your content from a few central locations, the intent is to distribute and get as close to the eyeball as possible and take the cheapest path to get there with the greatest efficiency. Tier-2 ISPs and small regionals generally have the greatest accessibility to *local* eyeballs.
    While for "progressive" downloads, binary distributions (what Akamai started with) it is not important how to get to cashing servers as long as it will get there, for streaming applications, especially live ones all the network segments suppose to have sufficient quality - lower grade providers (especially second tier ones) definitely could negatively affect that. Th point - for streaming, especially live ones - quality of distribution network is very important. For "downloadable" content dependency is not that high on the quality of network, as long as you have "close to the customer" distribution point - you are good.
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    There is absolutely nothing wrong with tier 2 providers garysimat Turbo 911 - $140K, Saturn $15K (?), difference 50 Mph (may be). It is all about marketing (and guaranteed quality )
    Actually I don't have my standpoint. I agree with you, tier 2 providers is an excellent choice for the network Is there any Tier 3 providers? They are probably even better, one more 1ms and 1/6 of the price
    Do you even know what a tier 1 provider is? I doubt it since you implied Internap is tier 1 which it is not. This is not 1995. If you understood the most basic principles of routing, peering, and how BGP works you would realize that today tier 1 providers are actually becoming unnecessary middlemen. If you know what you are doing an optimal configuration nowadays would make minimal use of tier 1 providers as their is not much need for them. They are just an extra middleman in many cases that add latency and cost more for lower quality of service.


    You really shouldn't be making such comments, they make you sound terribly ignorant on the topic.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCrowley View Post
    Do you even know what a tier 1 provider is? I doubt it since you implied Internap is tier 1 which it is not. This is not 1995. If you understood the most basic principles of routing, peering, and how BGP works you would realize that today tier 1 providers are actually becoming unnecessary middlemen. If you know what you are doing an optimal configuration nowadays would make minimal use of tier 1 providers as their is not much need for them. They are just an extra middleman in many cases that add latency and cost more for lower quality of service.


    You really shouldn't be making such comments, they make you sound terribly ignorant on the topic.

    Steve, I'm a bit confused here. How would a Tier-1 provider, example, Level3, be an unnessecary middleman? Are you referring to a scenario where you may purchase transit from some regional "Tier-2" with whom local ISP's use/peer with instead of purchasing a more expensive and potentially less optimally routed product from say Level, ATT, Verizion?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCrowley View Post
    Do you even know what a tier 1 provider is? I doubt it since you implied Internap is tier 1 which it is not. This is not 1995. If you understood the most basic principles of routing, peering, and how BGP works you would realize that today tier 1 providers are actually becoming unnecessary middlemen. If you know what you are doing an optimal configuration nowadays would make minimal use of tier 1 providers as their is not much need for them. They are just an extra middleman in many cases that add latency and cost more for lower quality of service.


    You really shouldn't be making such comments, they make you sound terribly ignorant on the topic.
    Please be professional, we had already one poster who was very emotional and even posted some "forbidden" words at WHT. The account has been terminated - with your 6 posts you look very like like him/her.

    Now about the business - I haven't "implied Internap" - please read the thread again. And if you are so angry on posters about Internap - what do you want for me? Ask about that to the guys who actually didn't "imply", but brought Internap's name to this thread. Sounds fishy to me that you are "angry" on me but not on the guys that were talking about Internap...
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    32
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    Steve, I'm a bit confused here. How would a Tier-1 provider, example, Level3, be an unnessecary middleman? Are you referring to a scenario where you may purchase transit from some regional "Tier-2" with whom local ISP's use/peer with instead of purchasing a more expensive and potentially less optimally routed product from say Level, ATT, Verizion?
    Because level 3 doesn't have any eyeballs. Well not many a tiny tiny amount. So if you user is say on Comcast or verizon Level 3 will be handing your data to Cocmast or Verizon. Why not just hand it them yourself? It's cheaper and in most cases faster. What if your user's network doesn't buy transit from level 3? Now you are giving your traffic to level 3 who is then giving it to NTT who is giving it to the eyeball network. Many Tier 2 providers would either peer directly with that eyeball network or at least be able to hand the data off to NTT bypassing Level 3.

    Peering has exploded over the last decade. Tier 1's are becoming less and less relevant every day.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCrowley View Post
    Because level 3 doesn't have any eyeballs. Well not many a tiny tiny amount. So if you user is say on Comcast or verizon Level 3 will be handing your data to Cocmast or Verizon. Why not just hand it them yourself? It's cheaper and in most cases faster. What if your user's network doesn't buy transit from level 3? Now you are giving your traffic to level 3 who is then giving it to NTT who is giving it to the eyeball network. Many Tier 2 providers would either peer directly with that eyeball network or at least be able to hand the data off to NTT bypassing Level 3.

    Peering has exploded over the last decade. Tier 1's are becoming less and less relevant every day.
    I don't disagree with you, I was just trying to make sense of your post, using Level3 as an example. I guess Cogent would have been a much more appropriate example given their "claim" of being "Tier 1" and their routing / handoff policies with the entire east coast hitting WDC to transit off. We've found great network performance out of internap, he, mzima, wvfiber, rapidlink, and the 30+ peers we peer with at the AIX here in Atlanta.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCrowley View Post
    My anger is with the fact that you are spreading such misinformation. Take a look at my first 5 posts. I wrote extremely long posts to help people out here. I am responsible for for a number of websites combined push about 15,000 TERABYTES per month. I am not the other poster you mention.
    Still, there is room to be civil. You push your TB your way, and others their way. Tulix is a long time respected member at WHT. There is no need to barge in and bash someone. For one thing, it detracts from your credibility. Readers don't come here to raise their blood pressure.

    Having said that, I went back and read all of Tulix's posts in this thread. There is nothing that I would disagree with. As a matter of fact no particular point of view seems to have been pushed. At least, in my understanding of the words.
    Last edited by Alex; 10-17-2009 at 09:47 PM. Reason: typo
    edgedirector.com
    managed dns global failover and load balance (gslb)
    exactstate.com
    uptime report for webhostingtalk.com

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCrowley View Post
    My anger is with the fact that you are spreading such misinformation. Take a look at my first 5 posts. I wrote extremely long posts to help people out here. I am responsible for for a number of websites combined push about 15,000 TERABYTES per month. I am not the other poster you mention.
    I hoe we've cleared up a lot by now

    Unless it is a secret, can you post which one is the largest and which one is the smallest site that you are managing? And also, is is live streaming, prerecorded streaming of static files download you are talking about?

    I think WHT rules will allow you to PM (send private message) to me, if don't want to publish those site here.

    Thank you,
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by SteveCrowley View Post
    Because level 3 doesn't have any eyeballs. Well not many a tiny tiny amount. So if you user is say on Comcast or verizon Level 3 will be handing your data to Cocmast or Verizon. Why not just hand it them yourself? It's cheaper and in most cases faster. What if your user's network doesn't buy transit from level 3? Now you are giving your traffic to level 3 who is then giving it to NTT who is giving it to the eyeball network. Many Tier 2 providers would either peer directly with that eyeball network or at least be able to hand the data off to NTT bypassing Level 3.

    Peering has exploded over the last decade. Tier 1's are becoming less and less relevant every day.
    At first I'd like to thank both posters who supported me and support good quality posts here.

    Regarding the post above - this is a very good post. Big providers, like Comcast, Verizon and others already have very good peering with Tier 1 providers. So it takes couple hopes and you'll be on any "big user network". If you can cut and get into their network directly - that's great. Very often for smaller MSOs (regional ones, like Knology, etc.) - you can't get to their network, unless you'll use somebody's fiber. Probably the best bet - to use Tier 1 to get to them (smaller MSOs and telcos), rather than anybody else.

    Also, the tool that we are using shows where traffic goes to (which network) - the idea of this tool is to see how much traffic goes to which network and based on that info to get direct peering with that (or more) particular network. In many cases it is impossible or cost a lot of money (if geographically they are far and don't have a local presence), especially with International ones (who are overseas) or on the other side of US, or in South America, etc. So the principles are correct, but because of the difficulties with implementation (mostly financial) it is more "practical" to use Tier 1 providers (now, if Tier 2 providers will do the job and your customers will be happy with - no problem at all with that too )
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    At first I'd like to thank both posters who supported me and support good quality posts here.

    Regarding the post above - this is a very good post. Big providers, like Comcast, Verizon and others already have very good peering with Tier 1 providers. So it takes couple hopes and you'll be on any "big user network". If you can cut and get into their network directly - that's great. Very often for smaller MSOs (regional ones, like Knology, etc.) - you can't get to their network, unless you'll use somebody's fiber. Probably the best bet - to use Tier 1 to get to them (smaller MSOs and telcos), rather than anybody else.

    Also, the tool that we are using shows where traffic goes to (which network) - the idea of this tool is to see how much traffic goes to which network and based on that info to get direct peering with that (or more) particular network. In many cases it is impossible or cost a lot of money (if geographically they are far and don't have a local presence), especially with International ones (who are overseas) or on the other side of US, or in South America, etc. So the principles are correct, but because of the difficulties with implementation (mostly financial) it is more "practical" to use Tier 1 providers (now, if Tier 2 providers will do the job and your customers will be happy with - no problem at all with that too )

    Verizon in particular is a bad example as Verizon Business aka MCI is a Tier-1 within itself and they like to show you that in the pricing.

    The reason the T2's are so strong is their presence in the regional peering point take a look at the peering list at the AIX here in Atlanta. We peer directly with earthlink, knology, gatech, emory, and many other major local eyeball destinations. If we didn't have direct access to the peering point some of the T2 providers we purchase from, Mzima, WVFiber (a founding member of the AIX), RapidLink, all also peer at the AIX providing 1-hop access into the few networks at the aix we aren't large enough to peer with (national ISP's that require peering at 3+ distinct locations).

    Take a note that there are no "Tier-1" providers at the aix

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    Verizon in particular is a bad example as Verizon Business aka MCI is a Tier-1 within itself and they like to show you that in the pricing.

    The reason the T2's are so strong is their presence in the regional peering point take a look at the peering list at the AIX here in Atlanta. We peer directly with earthlink, knology, gatech, emory, and many other major local eyeball destinations. If we didn't have direct access to the peering point some of the T2 providers we purchase from, Mzima, WVFiber (a founding member of the AIX), RapidLink, all also peer at the AIX providing 1-hop access into the few networks at the aix we aren't large enough to peer with (national ISP's that require peering at 3+ distinct locations).

    Take a note that there are no "Tier-1" providers at the aix
    This is a great example of peering with local MSOs, network. What you are gonna do if your customer is ptci.net? Or Bendbroadband.com? Or parasun networks? Tier 2 will get you to Tier 1 (see garysimat's message) and then you'll get to their network (those 3 that I've mentioned). And you know that we have customers like that - They have local networks with 5,000 to 200,000 subs on them, unless they are local like Cox, knology, Spirit Telecom (they have presence, I believe at AIX too), no luck without Tier 1 providers.

    And I think it all depends on how much money you've got. If you have enough - you can build your own US (and beyond) network. We were talking with one IPTV provider/potential customer - they are putting 10 Gb/s lines (leasing) and force10 (they claim they are better for streaming) equipment in each large city in US. They would still need "starting point" - so why we were talking with them, but network wise - they would be using their network and local peerings in each city where they would have a presence...
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  24. #24
    ANd about AIX...
    3 years ago I wanted to setup similar service in 55 Marietta, but was discouraged by my coworkers... Sad, now AIX is charging money for all connects (was not that way several years ago) and I think they've got bought by Telx.

    In Europe by the way the setup is very different. Technical and financial - both...

    It may not be too late to setup another AIX even now, especially for some "users" it is difficult to get some services and in reality you would need just small portion of them (current "peerers").
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    ANd about AIX...
    3 years ago I wanted to setup similar service in 55 Marietta, but was discouraged by my coworkers... Sad, now AIX is charging money for all connects (was not that way several years ago) and I think they've got bought by Telx.

    In Europe by the way the setup is very different. Technical and financial - both...

    It may not be too late to setup another AIX even now, especially for some "users" it is difficult to get some services and in reality you would need just small portion of them (current "peerers").
    JTC already operates an open exchange in 55 where anyone within the space is able to freely connect (which is most everyone in 55 anyway). There is not a shared peering fabric in place but it's fully open for interconnection. Yes, since the AIX was purchased by TelX they have instituted some fees but we were grandfathered in as an existing member so our structure is slightly different.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    This is a great example of peering with local MSOs, network. What you are gonna do if your customer is ptci.net? Or Bendbroadband.com? Or parasun networks? Tier 2 will get you to Tier 1 (see garysimat's message) and then you'll get to their network (those 3 that I've mentioned). And you know that we have customers like that - They have local networks with 5,000 to 200,000 subs on them, unless they are local like Cox, knology, Spirit Telecom (they have presence, I believe at AIX too), no luck without Tier 1 providers.

    And I think it all depends on how much money you've got. If you have enough - you can build your own US (and beyond) network. We were talking with one IPTV provider/potential customer - they are putting 10 Gb/s lines (leasing) and force10 (they claim they are better for streaming) equipment in each large city in US. They would still need "starting point" - so why we were talking with them, but network wise - they would be using their network and local peerings in each city where they would have a presence...
    Well of course there are always going to be some reach issues with small market and micro-isp clients. Parasun for example only has connectivity to Peer1 which is itself a Tier2 so there is no point in paying a T1 premium to reach Parasun, BendBroadband has connectivity to Level3 which is the only T1 they appear to have but I don't see any routes to them via Level3 out there and only see inbound via 360Networks, another Tier2. PTCI on the other hand has only ATT/Verizon so again you are going to have to hop a few carriers to get into their network.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    JTC already operates an open exchange in 55 where anyone within the space is able to freely connect (which is most everyone in 55 anyway). There is not a shared peering fabric in place but it's fully open for interconnection. Yes, since the AIX was purchased by TelX they have instituted some fees but we were grandfathered in as an existing member so our structure is slightly different.
    Comparing JTC to AIX is like comparing MMR in 56 Marietta to AIX. I think AIX is a good idea, before they started charging to peer with each other. I've heard that even "grandfathered" were not able to get what they wanted even for a fee and I was surprised that was offered 10 Gb/s port for a very marginal fee.

    Gnax had (probably has now too) publicly available graphs for network usage with AIX - haven't looked recently, but up until now traffic was very minimal - this is the major reason why we don't have them - don't think it worth for us - we have too diversified (globally) market. But I would say and even repeat - I think AIX is a great idea - I wish it have been more useful to participants.
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    Well of course there are always going to be some reach issues with small market and micro-isp clients. Parasun for example only has connectivity to Peer1 which is itself a Tier2 so there is no point in paying a T1 premium to reach Parasun, BendBroadband has connectivity to Level3 which is the only T1 they appear to have but I don't see any routes to them via Level3 out there and only see inbound via 360Networks, another Tier2. PTCI on the other hand has only ATT/Verizon so again you are going to have to hop a few carriers to get into their network.
    Good research - just to clarify - you can have multiple choices:

    you - Tier1 - customer
    If customer is "cheap" then (and that is not under your control)
    you - Tier1 - Tier2 - customer

    If you are "cheap", then

    you - Tier2 - Tier1 - customer
    If customer is "cheap" then (and that is not under your control)
    you - Tier2 - Tier1 - Tier2 - customer

    Make a choice if you want to be "cheap" or not - the rest you can see above.

    And yes, it could be other cases, like:
    you - Tier2 - customer, when customers are "local"
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    Comparing JTC to AIX is like comparing MMR in 56 Marietta to AIX. I think AIX is a good idea, before they started charging to peer with each other. I've heard that even "grandfathered" were not able to get what they wanted even for a fee and I was surprised that was offered 10 Gb/s port for a very marginal fee.

    Gnax had (probably has now too) publicly available graphs for network usage with AIX - haven't looked recently, but up until now traffic was very minimal - this is the major reason why we don't have them - don't think it worth for us - we have too diversified (globally) market. But I would say and even repeat - I think AIX is a great idea - I wish it have been more useful to participants.
    Correct, JTC is an open MMR / colocation facility not like the AIX, as I stated there is no switching/exhange fabric in place it's meerly a point where connections can be made, which for most people in 55 that would suffice. We maintain a rack and fiber there for interconnection and we have an open connection policy and infact connect with a few networks there. If there is more interest from other 55 tenants it would be rather trivial for us all to donate the necessary components to run an exchange.

    GNAX does connect at the AIX still, we peer with them as well and they do list their usage publicly at http://www.gnax.net/services_ip-netw...-network.shtml It looks like their RouteScience optimization still sees quite some value in pushing traffic to the AIX for pure performance.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    At first I'd like to thank both posters who supported me and support good quality posts here.
    You're quite welcome. I for one am not prepared to have this place turned into a free for all.

    Now, I'll just step aside.
    edgedirector.com
    managed dns global failover and load balance (gslb)
    exactstate.com
    uptime report for webhostingtalk.com

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    Correct, JTC is an open MMR / colocation facility not like the AIX, as I stated there is no switching/exhange fabric in place it's meerly a point where connections can be made, which for most people in 55 that would suffice. We maintain a rack and fiber there for interconnection and we have an open connection policy and infact connect with a few networks there. If there is more interest from other 55 tenants it would be rather trivial for us all to donate the necessary components to run an exchange.

    GNAX does connect at the AIX still, we peer with them as well and they do list their usage publicly at http://www.gnax.net/services_ip-netw...-network.shtml It looks like their RouteScience optimization still sees quite some value in pushing traffic to the AIX for pure performance.
    Thank you for pfinding and posting Gnax graphs - what is - about 4% goes to AIX - in my opinion it didn't worth it, especially per AIX "recommendations" - in optimizer you "suppose" to push as much traffic to AIX, even if it is not the best route - still about 4%

    I think when you put numbers together than you can see real values, but not marketing fluff, although, like I've said - in Europe are similar exchanges (they do work on L2 level) and I think AIX is a great (but not original) idea - I wish (as you can see) it would have been more useful for ALL participants.
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    Good research - just to clarify - you can have multiple choices:

    you - Tier1 - customer
    If customer is "cheap" then (and that is not under your control)
    you - Tier1 - Tier2 - customer

    If you are "cheap", then

    you - Tier2 - Tier1 - customer
    If customer is "cheap" then (and that is not under your control)
    you - Tier2 - Tier1 - Tier2 - customer

    Make a choice if you want to be "cheap" or not - the rest you can see above.

    And yes, it could be other cases, like:
    you - Tier2 - customer, when customers are "local"
    Thats the magic of maintaining a large connectivity base and coupling that with route optimization. All the magic behind Internap's FCP, Avaya's RS devices, etc is some simple statistics. As such, the larger the sample size the more accurate your (routing) decsisions will be.

  33. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    Thats the magic of maintaining a large connectivity base and coupling that with route optimization. All the magic behind Internap's FCP, Avaya's RS devices, etc is some simple statistics. As such, the larger the sample size the more accurate your (routing) decsisions will be.
    My post was for the reason for explaining T1 vs T2 scenarios.

    Regarding Network Optimizers - if you'll do performance based optimization - you are right - it will be exactly what I had shown in my post. Now if you are "cheap" - will do "cost based" optimization - then it is the same like having T2 providers. As long as your customers are happy - everything is great !
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Atlanta, GA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    My post was for the reason for explaining T1 vs T2 scenarios.

    Regarding Network Optimizers - if you'll do performance based optimization - you are right - it will be exactly what I had shown in my post. Now if you are "cheap" - will do "cost based" optimization - then it is the same like having T2 providers. As long as your customers are happy - everything is great !
    given how "cheap" transit is these days for anyone with a reasonably sized network cost based route optimization is (or should be) a thing of the past as it's simply not necessary.

  35. #35
    I have a question.

    From Wiki:

    Tier 1 network is a transit-free network that does not pay settlements to any other network to reach any other portion of the Internet. It is impossible for an outside authority to confirm that a network is not paying settlements of any type because such business agreements are frequently not public information, or even covered under a Non-Disclosure Agreement.

    How many Tier 1 providers connect to South America?
    How many CDN services have POPs point of presences in South America as right now?

    That should add something nice to CDN providers discussion. Most DON'T any have presence in this regions. Please don't flame me now.

  36. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    given how "cheap" transit is these days for anyone with a reasonably sized network cost based route optimization is (or should be) a thing of the past as it's simply not necessary.
    It should, but it is not Especially if you have a mix of cheap T2 and expensive T1 providers.

    And size of the network sometimes makes cost based optimization very noticeable.
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    I have a question.



    How many Tier 1 providers connect to South America?
    How many CDN services have POPs point of presences in South America as right now?

    That should add something nice to CDN providers discussion. Most DON'T any have presence in this regions. Please don't flame me now.
    I know that NTT has presence on the islands in Caribbean Sea. A year ago I've met GM of a telco from one of the SOuth American country at the conference - he was trying to interconnect with US network - don't know if he succeeded or not.

    Regarding POP for CDN - it is a simple procedure to do. It very well may be that nobody is paying for distribution of the content in South America. I am surprised to hear about that (although I haven't done research on CDN in S. A.), because our streaming services are very popular over there and, I believe we have resellers in several countries (for streaming services only).
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  38. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    I know that NTT has presence on the islands in Caribbean Sea. A year ago I've met GM of a telco from one of the SOuth American country at the conference - he was trying to interconnect with US network - don't know if he succeeded or not.

    Regarding POP for CDN - it is a simple procedure to do. It very well may be that nobody is paying for distribution of the content in South America. I am surprised to hear about that (although I haven't done research on CDN in S. A.), because our streaming services are very popular over there and, I believe we have resellers in several countries (for streaming services only).
    I will answer it. Unless you consider Telefonica a Tier 1 there aren't. Taking Brazil aside, Telefonica basically dominates connections in almost all countries. For CDN, not Akamai not Limelight, not one has a POP at all. Now the interesting thing is that CDN would work like gold, why? Because the connections are very slow, not over 1 Megabit at most countries, thats why so many countries use local providers for hosting content, because its streaming fast on their local backbones. Now if you ask me CDN would work like magic, as they can access content fast and locally. But there aren't CDN pops. Thats why most CDN providers probably don't have any clients there, because its useless, you get the same speed for your content, since they use Miami as the closest POP for Latin America, which gives you only a 20 ms advantage over Dallas or anywhere else in the US. CND content loads the same, so there is no use. That would change with a POP of course. Eventually someone will come up with that idea and business and will start to put some servers for their POP. CDN is something that im looking for sometime now but as nobody has a POP it doesn't work for clients.
    I was so mad for some years that I even thought of caching the Miami POP accounts and replicated them locally and use my own made POP.

  39. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    I will answer it. Unless you consider Telefonica a Tier 1 there aren't. Taking Brazil aside, Telefonica basically dominates connections in almost all countries. For CDN, not Akamai not Limelight, not one has a POP at all. Now the interesting thing is that CDN would work like gold, why? Because the connections are very slow, not over 1 Megabit at most countries, thats why so many countries use local providers for hosting content, because its streaming fast on their local backbones. Now if you ask me CDN would work like magic, as they can access content fast and locally. But there aren't CDN pops. Thats why most CDN providers probably don't have any clients there, because its useless, you get the same speed for your content, since they use Miami as the closest POP for Latin America, which gives you only a 20 ms advantage over Dallas or anywhere else in the US. CND content loads the same, so there is no use. That would change with a POP of course. Eventually someone will come up with that idea and business and will start to put some servers for their POP. CDN is something that im looking for sometime now but as nobody has a POP it doesn't work for clients.
    I was so mad for some years that I even thought of caching the Miami POP accounts and replicated them locally and use my own made POP.
    What about google? They are not a CDN, but they are putting servers in the countries/places that I wouldn't think they would put them. Don't they have any local servers over there? It could be a good start for the infrastructure.
    Professional Streaming services - http://www.tulix.com - info at tulix.com
    Double optimized - AS36820) network, best for live streaming/VoIP/gaming
    The best quality network - AS7219

  40. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    What about google? They are not a CDN, but they are putting servers in the countries/places that I wouldn't think they would put them. Don't they have any local servers over there? It could be a good start for the infrastructure.
    No. Google Latin America is hosted in Terramark, Nap of the Americas 4 floor, if im correct.

    Thats actually one the best pings for Latin America. All Google Latin websites are there. I actually researched and found even a lower ping to a building 3 blocks aways with Level 3.

    The NAP is the one that most US companies including Google use as Latin America hub. Not a cheap facility by the way since everybody wants to be there. Im testing near Washington and it also seems to be great. They are building some facilities in Colombia and Dominican Republic, Brazil has also ones, Terramark but Brazil is not connected to the rest of the inside countries. Im not sure why they picked countries that are not even in the middle, they are up to North and you have better routes to the US then to them. Example, a route to Brazil, Colombia, etc, actually goes trough the US first.

    Best pings are 120 ms to 250 ms depending on which country you are to Miami. Virgin ground for infrastructure.
    Last edited by PYDOT; 10-13-2009 at 04:58 AM.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Content Delivery Network: Who provides the best
    By gdtechind in forum Web Hosting
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-19-2009, 11:54 PM
  2. Content Delivery Network?
    By NationHosts in forum Specialty Hosting and Markets
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 12-19-2008, 01:59 PM
  3. Cheap content delivery network
    By mshephard in forum Colocation and Data Centers
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-26-2008, 02:22 PM
  4. Peer 1 Network 30 Day Free Trial Content Delivery Network
    By jcooper in forum Dedicated Hosting Offers
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-09-2005, 09:38 AM
  5. Peer 1 Network 30 Day Free Trial of our Content Delivery Network
    By jcooper in forum Dedicated Hosting Offers
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-02-2004, 11:04 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •