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Thread: LiquidWeb
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10-09-2009, 06:55 AM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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LiquidWeb
I'm currently considering a host change, so I'm putting out feelers to potential candidates. As always, I'm putting on my difficult customer mask (turning down my rationality and patience module) to find out if the host can actually handle real-life customers (one of the things I find most important and that I don't want to find out once the server is already on fire). Most companies pass the test very well. Here's how LiquidWeb handles new customers:
Originally Posted by yosmcGreetings,
Thank you for contacting us. Liquid Web offers Heroic Support which covers the
hardware, OS, and installed components. We will also monitor your server, and
if a service fails one of our reps will log into your box and restart the
service. We do not provide support for your content (including backups). If
you are having a problem we will help you to troubleshoot the problem, however
if the fault is in your content or scripts we will not be able to assist you
with that.
For more information on what your support covers please see our website at:
http://liquidweb.com/services/heroicsupport.html
If you have any further questions please let us know.Originally Posted by yosmcOriginally Posted by LiquidWebOriginally Posted by yosmc
Anyone know what's wrong with these people? Are they full, or do they only take on easy customers who need nothing?
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10-09-2009, 06:58 AM #2Marketing Maestro
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It doesn't say they aren't taking new customers? It's just saying that they aren't the right host for you (their own words) because their support offered does not cover the tasks you want it to, from their understanding.
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10-09-2009, 07:03 AM #3Web Hosting Master
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Travis Stoliker
Liquid Web - Dedicated Hosting with Heroic Support
StormOnDemand - Flexible Cloud Hosting Infrastructure
1-800-580-4985 | Twitter: @liquidweb | @StormOnDemand
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10-09-2009, 08:37 AM #4Newbie
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ouch...I'm in the process of getting a dedicated with them.
As I posted here:
http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showpo...0&postcount=23
I think their main flaw (they would gain a lot by solving) is using the same resources (i.e support staff and ticket system) for $10/m customer and $1500/m customer. They don't differentiate.
I'm new to them but it looks like the phone support is a lot better then email or their ticket system. Over the phone, I think it's easier for them to differentiate the 14 year old kid on a $15/month account from the business person managing a company.Last edited by webpan; 10-09-2009 at 08:41 AM.
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10-09-2009, 09:26 AM #5Retired Moderator
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I support the Human Rights Campaign!
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10-09-2009, 10:40 AM #6Temporarily Suspended
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Sorry to hear about your bad experience.
Hope you find the right provider.
Cheers
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10-09-2009, 11:03 AM #7Randy
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I suggest hiring an employee or support company, as finding a server provider to do essentially the same thing is going to be very, very costly if you can even find one that meets your standard. Seems like you're at that critically lame moment in small business...where your workload is more than you can handle, but the income isn't allowing you to hire a full time employee. Tough spot to be in.
Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | DDOS Protected | Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
Since 2003 - Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters
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10-09-2009, 12:00 PM #8Junior Guru Wannabe
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Yep, that's pretty much it. Currently I'm simply trying to find out what managed hosting *can* do for me. Even if I'm not getting it all, I still don't think there's any other approach for this than playing with open cards. Which is of course why a reply along the lines of "go elsewhere" isn't very helpful, because that's no info I can base a decision on.
Thanks for the reply - PM sent.
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10-09-2009, 12:03 PM #9Web Hosting Guru
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By your own admission, you were being intentionally difficult with them. You also showed us that instead of asking direct and concise questions, you sent them a long-winded essay. Even though they gave a professional answer that was to the point, you decided to badmouth them at WHT, potentially costing them lost sales. Sorry, but that's really lame.
Read their answer again: you need a web developer to deal with your content. The DC will not and should not do this. If you can even find a DC that will do this, the deal with most certainly be bad in comparison.There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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10-09-2009, 12:14 PM #10CISSP-ISSMP, CISA
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10-09-2009, 12:18 PM #11Junior Guru Wannabe
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When I was reading his first email my brain told me "Ok, you can stay here, but I'm leaving".
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10-09-2009, 12:21 PM #12Custom Hosting Master
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Few top-end managed providers will offer application support, and that may be only for very popular web applications like WordPress. You expect everything, and in the ideal world you could actually pay a substantial amount of money and have a company help you out with all your requirements, but right now I can't think of any company that can fit your requirements, for any amount of money.
You need to loosen the requirements or hire someone for the web side of things.
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10-09-2009, 02:48 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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There are companies that can handle this sort of thing, but at what I think I can safely assume would be at a cost significantly higher than what you're willing to pay (thousands per month for a fairly modest setup). You'll get a team of people assigned to your account (sysadmin, DBA, network architect, etc.) that are intimately familiar with your environment and application(s)--you're dealing with the same people day in and day out instead of the next available support tech in the ticket queue. This also requires a lot more client discipline than I typically see in small operations (the kind that's de rigueur in large companies)--you need to adhere to proper change management and version control, unit testing, etc. Any time you change your application, they'll work with you to document it, test it and validate it before putting into production. This is not the kind of service you get for a $250/mo "fully managed" server.
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10-09-2009, 03:05 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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Your email is too long. You need to take a course on "writing for the web 101". No one reads on the web. People "scan" text on computer monitors. They don't read. So you write small paragraphs and be concise if you want them to read what you wrote.
By the way I did read some of what you wrote in your first email. It sounds to me like you should spend on a larger more powerful server than you currently have. That should give you the additional capacity you need and prevent half the problems your having.
BTW what is so tough about coming online once a day to check on your sites? Its a lot easier than going to work from 9-5.
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10-09-2009, 04:35 PM #15Junior Guru Wannabe
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Quite true, but the purpose of his email was to test out the support.
As for nearly everyone going on about "they shouldn't do application support", even the OP stated that that was the only question really ever answered... yet he had thrown out a good 5+ questions in that one email.
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10-09-2009, 04:56 PM #16Newbie
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10-09-2009, 05:14 PM #17
From a "server provider's" perspective, this is absolutely correct. Even a 'managed server provider' isn't going to do this for you.
As explained previously, this doesn't mean that LiquidWeb isn't taking new customers, but that they weren't the company for you, and, quite frankly, no hosting company is. Even rackspace, with their "fanatical" support isn't going to be the right company for you, and here's why:
Server Providers can not provide reliable 'managed servers', and you're starting to see why. A typical server provider uses ICMP (or ping) to check your ports and if they're up, that's all they look for. A proper monitoring technique is to check the response of that port and make sure it's the correct response. Examples:
http sends out proper header codes if it's running.
MTA's send out proper header codes if it's running.
In addition, most 'managed server providers' won't actually monitor anything but http, so, like you said, with SQL, you're on your own.
How to get around this? Get a decent server from a decent provider, hire a systems admin to monitor and administrate your server. More money, yes, but it allows you to take that time off that you want. Make sure that said administrator is someone you can trust to do the job, though.
Keep in mind, as well, you're responsible for monitoring your own client's websites. Asking a server admin to keep an eye on 500 websites is just a bit much, unless you're paying them a good chunk of cash (and no, $250 is not a good chunk of cash) to do so.Tom Whiting, WHMCS Guru extraordinaire
Linux problems? WHMCS Problems? Give me a shout
Check out my WHMCS Addons
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10-09-2009, 05:38 PM #18Web Hosting Guru
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As for nearly everyone going on about "they shouldn't do application support", even the OP stated that that was the only question really ever answered... yet he had thrown out a good 5+ questions in that one email.
Introduction about situation: strong wish for application support
Question 1: application support
Question 2: application support (webserver, etc)
Question 3: question about managed anti-DoS solutions
Question 4: application support (database)
Question 5: question about communication in case of outages/etc
Question 6: application support (what to do if application support goes wrong)
Question 7: application support (pre-emptive / against a fee)
Question 8: application support (letting users trigger application support)
So, except for questions 3 and 5, every wish that he expressed had to do with application support in one way or another. So, quite logically, the host apparently thinks "hey, this is a person who really really wants application support and we don't offer that; how about we tell him honestly that we don't offer that".
What else do you expect them to tell you? They can't meet ~80% of your demands. Maybe this is important information, eh?
But hey, maybe this is another one of those "tests"? Personally, I think trolls like these should leave the room with the imprint of a boot on their behind.
Note to mods: perhaps the title of this thread can be changed so as to avoid unnecessary confusion.There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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10-09-2009, 05:55 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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If I had a customer that sent big text's/tickets like you on sales I would try to advise him not to sign-up.
Try to be a little more straight forward you know...
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10-09-2009, 06:02 PM #20Web Hosting Guru
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So, let's continue the analysis.
The situation: LW explained TWICE that they don't do application support, yet the OP is not pleased with the answers. Now he makes the following complaints:
- complaint 1: LW won't fix bugs in client's programs (you're expecting programmers to fix your bugs??)
- complaint 2: expecting specialized host monitoring (you need an alert service, particularly since the resolution is application support)
- complaint 3: complaint that LW won't fix mysql configuration even though it doesn't support that in the first place (once again, application support)
- complaint 4: LW doesn't offer sub-accounts (seems to be tied to question about application support)
- complaint 5: some talk about custom partitions not being possible (huh?), probably unanswered because it was buried in a question about application support
- complaint 6: blaming LW for not explaining clearly enough they don't do application support
- complaint 7: their answers are actually concise and to the point
- observation: question no. 3 got answered by looking at their site
Exactly what kind of response do you expect from them? You keep insisting you want application support from them, they keep telling you they don't offer it.
At some point, they are rightly going to decide you're a troll (which, by your own admission, you are) and stop responding. This is not a matter of picking "easy" customers, it's a matter of picking sane ones.There are 10 kinds of people, those who understand binary and those who don't.
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10-09-2009, 06:30 PM #21Rockin' the beer gut
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10-09-2009, 06:48 PM #22renegade
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Talence, in my opinion you are way off base.
All managed solutions include some level of "application support" so you can't just categorize that into its own thing and disregard it.
Managed hosting can mean logging into the server and fixing Apache problems, or updating Wordpress and whatever have you.
The OP may have some really strict requirements, but I can't blame the guy for asking, even though he was a bit obnoxious in the way he asked.
There's a difference between a webmasters job and managed tech support, and that difference lies more in that tech support attends to proper running of services/daemons, more so than bug hunting in a php script like a webmaster does.
The OP may have confused some of the issues, but not all.
In fact he should get both managed solution AND a dedicated webmaster/server admin, and this will make sure every facet of his server is online and working.
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10-09-2009, 07:15 PM #23Aspiring Evangelist
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No, Talence is correct. Application support for most dedicated providers is usually limited to:
"Is apache running? Yes? Is MySQL running? Yes? I think we're done here."
It doesn't mean "verify that MySQL is optimized for some off-the-wall 3rd party software application that the hosting provider has never seen or heard of, especially if it is some application that they specifically stated that they don't support."
Also, Wordpress falls under the umbrella of 3rd party software, i.e., not installed or provided by the hosting company and not required for the server to be considered online. Even though *you* may consider it required for your site to be functional, the provider is only concerned about the base system (OS + hardware), not your content. You have to pay extra to find someone who will be concerned about your content. (A hosting provider's only concern is that they don't damage or delete it.) Therefore, Wordpress normally falls under the "unsupported" column. The most a provider *might* do is fix a small issue (e.g., ownership or permissions on a file), but upgrading Wordpress is a non-trivial process that could end up destroying your site if it isn't done properly and something goes wrong.
You have to understand, when a dedicated provider has hundreds, thousands, or tens of thousands of servers to manage, they can't provide each server owner with that highly specific, deeply involved level of support (at least, not cheaply).
The problem is that he asked for some services that can only be provided by someone who spends all their time studying the layout and configuration of his server. That person must know nearly everything about every web site and script that has been installed on that server. Otherwise, someone coming in on the tail end of things may or may not know how things are supposed to be working, what server loads are normal, what disk usage is normal, what processes need to be running, what is scheduled in cron, what management tools are already installed, etc. That is the kind of involvement that most (if not all) dedicated providers cannot provide. And then he decided to have an attitude about the entire issue causing negative press for a company that has not done anything wrong.
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10-09-2009, 07:40 PM #24Temporarily Suspended
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I think its harsh bad mouthing them here at WHT. According to your snotty emails
I hadn't written such a long email because I'm bored
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10-09-2009, 07:53 PM #25Aspiring Evangelist
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Originally Posted by yosmc
You send them a wall of text and then come to WHT saying they're not accepting new customers, simply because you didn't get an essay back?
Long messages are very hard to follow, especially when they get unprofessional (I would have stopped reading at "everything goes down the crapper")
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