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  1. #1

    Exclamation Looking for cheapish dedicated server hosting after disaster @ OVH

    Well, I had a software RAID1 with a failed disk, so I asked my provider (OVH), to swap the failing disk with a new one. They promptly decided, without consulting me, to diagnose my second disk as bad too so they simply replaced the disks and put a fresh OS. Now I lost my 4 VMs (Xen), my 700GB of data and for some reason my range of fail over IPs. Now I have a backup of all of that but a transfer of 700GB will cost me a bomb... Cheap hosting leads to cheap service and incompetency!

    It's thus time for a new, maybe more expensive, dedicated server provider.

    If any of you have a *serious* provider in mind and possibly not too expensive, I'd appreciate the URL.

    I will of course check out the posts on WHT but I though some of you might like to know about OVH. This is after all the second time they wipe my server clean and take no blame for doing so. You have been warned.

  2. #2
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    What kind of offer did you have with OVH?
    www.InstantDedicated.com - Online in no time
    Dedicated Servers in [EU] Netherlands with DAILY support, also on weekends
    DDOS Protected network - 100% Money Back if it doesn't work for you
    Streaming / IPTV allowed | Up to 10 Gbit ports | 100% Network Uptime

  3. #3
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    Do you have an budget in mind? (what are you willing to pay?)

    Spec on new server your looking for? eg: cpu, memory, harddrive (atleast 1TB?)

    Thats crazy on there part by deleting everything without notice.

    OVH from France?

    FYI: WHT only allows users to post links of company they had first hand experience with, so keep that in mind, been seeing lots of recommendations without first hand experience post going on.
    Last edited by TheServerExperts; 10-08-2009 at 10:12 AM.

  4. #4
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    I would recommend using a hardware raid card as the onboard raids can sometimes cause issues with rebuilding properly.

    Is there any particular location geographically that would work best for your clients?

  5. #5
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    eco6905 we are sorry to hear that you have problems with OVH.

    But to help you with buying new server, we need to know server specification, your budget, managed or unmanaged and Location of the server you need.
    If you can provide us with this information, then maybe we will recommend you something
    Last edited by CaroNetTanya; 10-08-2009 at 10:16 AM. Reason: -

  6. #6
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    I recommend not only raid-1 in either hard or software, but also a onsite backup. Like you already mentioned, restoring a large volume of data offsite can be slow and costly.

    Unfortunately, if a disk breaks down there is a rather large chance that data on the mirror disk also gets corrupted. It would be good if they still mounted that disk for you, to see if you can salvage some data.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    Well, I had a software RAID1 with a failed disk, so I asked my provider (OVH), to swap the failing disk with a new one. They promptly decided, without consulting me, to diagnose my second disk as bad too so they simply replaced the disks and put a fresh OS. Now I lost my 4 VMs (Xen), my 700GB of data and for some reason my range of fail over IPs. Now I have a backup of all of that but a transfer of 700GB will cost me a bomb... Cheap hosting leads to cheap service and incompetency!
    You could post this on the ovh forums too, if you have not already.

    The OVH UK forums are at http://forum.ovh.co.uk/

    It's absolutely baffling that a service supplier can do such a stupid thing.

  8. #8
    You are all right, I need to give you more info on the specs I'm looking for... just needed to let off some steam first

    What OVH offers for 70 EUR + VAT

    Intel Core2Duo 2x 2.66+ GHz 4 Mo L2 - FSB 1066 MHz

    Virtualisation: Instructions VT
    Architecture 64 bits
    RAM 4 Go DDR2
    HD 2x 750 Go SATA2 - RAID 0/1
    100 Mbit connection w/ no limit on traffic. Although It looks like I use no more than 10-15GB/month.

    The price is very cheap but as you gathered, so is the "service".

    I can't believe they have the good disk and won't put it back into the server because it's agains their policy... they will however ship it to me for 100 EUR!!!

    So if any of you know of a system with more or less those specs on which I can run my own VMs and around that price range, preferably in the EU, send me a URL.

    Oh and as for software RAID, I doubt I'll get any better for that price range.

    Thank you all for your help and comments.
    -Ed

  9. #9
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    I'm currently a customer of Limestone networks, just a short review about them, thinking of making a full one later on.

    I've been with them for a month now, I've gotten a package with: Dual CPU quad core Xeons, 8GB ram, 4TB bandwith, 2x500gb hdd in raid1 (WD RE3'S mind you, awesome HDD's) IPKVM included, and 100mbps up/down. All of this was around $280/mo roughly.

    I must say, they have such amazing service, great response time, and are very helpful! Also the prices are great considering their service. Look for my review on them later on.

  10. #10
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    You can try/use BurstNET their server line up is really new and prices are great.

    In cases where you have a failed harddrive you should type short messages and clear so the margin for error is low.

    Think it's kind'a like a twitter post.


    Any way good luck

  11. #11
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    Try webnx.com .check out the dedicated offers forum.They have lots of custom configurations at awesome prices.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by XENnode View Post
    I'm currently a customer of Limestone networks, just a short review about them, thinking of making a full one later on.

    I've been with them for a month now, I've gotten a package with: Dual CPU quad core Xeons, 8GB ram, 4TB bandwith, 2x500gb hdd in raid1 (WD RE3'S mind you, awesome HDD's) IPKVM included, and 100mbps up/down. All of this was around $280/mo roughly.

    I must say, they have such amazing service, great response time, and are very helpful! Also the prices are great considering their service. Look for my review on them later on.
    That's a ok deal but that's not amazing deal...

    Have you seen TurnKeyInternet our BurstNET prices?

    Add: Forgot to mentioned gigenet, they got good deals up sadly they don't have Telefonica as peer/backbone.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    Intel Core2Duo 2x 2.66+ GHz 4 Mo L2 - FSB 1066 MHz
    Sounds like a desktop CPU to me. Price is good, but they give you a desktop that they label and sell as a server. Compare apples with apples.......

    All fine if you do not have mission critical content.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Sounds like a desktop CPU to me. Price is good, but they give you a desktop that they label and sell as a server. Compare apples with apples.......

    All fine if you do not have mission critical content.
    I agree.. .we learn by our mistakes... It looks like I need to double what I'm paying now to get a decent server/service. I need more clients

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    I agree.. .we learn by our mistakes... It looks like I need to double what I'm paying now to get a decent server/service. I need more clients
    You will see, if you get a quality server with quality services, you will get more and better paying, on top of that more loyal clients as well.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
    Unbeatable dedicated bandwidth deals for Dedicated servers ! Support response time <15 minutes 24/7

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    I agree.. .we learn by our mistakes... It looks like I need to double what I'm paying now to get a decent server/service. I need more clients
    Forums are full of those coming to the same conclusion after they have only looked at the price tag. Better luck next time.

  17. #17

    Thumbs up

    Thank you all for your help. I will search a bit more but it looks like I need to do x3 to get the equivalent as a server with a proper service.

    Great site, great community.
    -E

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    Thank you all for your help. I will search a bit more but it looks like I need to do x3 to get the equivalent as a server with a proper service.

    Great site, great community.
    -E
    Do not over react. But do a little more due dilligence. There are companies out there with proper procedures and decent prices.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
    Unbeatable dedicated bandwidth deals for Dedicated servers ! Support response time <15 minutes 24/7

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    Well, I had a software RAID1 with a failed disk ...
    Incidentally, in another thread there was someone asking how they could tell if their RAID was working.

    How did you detect you had a failed disk?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    Well, I had a software RAID1 with a failed disk, so I asked my provider (OVH), to swap the failing disk with a new one. They promptly decided, without consulting me, to diagnose my second disk as bad too so they simply replaced the disks and put a fresh OS. Now I lost my 4 VMs (Xen), my 700GB of data and for some reason my range of fail over IPs. Now I have a backup of all of that but a transfer of 700GB will cost me a bomb... Cheap hosting leads to cheap service and incompetency!
    I am sorry that you have lost your data. However, in fairness, OVH makes absolutely no guarantees regarding your data on their lower end services. If there is a hardware fault of any kind their SLA is to fix that before all else and in every case I have ever heard of they *always* replace *all* the HD's when they pull a rack because it's so costly in manpower to pull a rack at all. It is assumed that before you notify them of a hardware failure you have already backed up all important data beforehand - this is why they provide backup server space with their BestOf plans (admittedly, it isn't enough at 100Gb). If you *did* want guarantees for your data, you need to purchase their level 3 support option while BestOf only comes with level 2.

    Personally I'd rent a bottom end Kimsufi for backup data storage. This makes it much quicker to restore the data. With OVH, as with any of the large cheap providers, you end up doing most of the work yourself. If you have lots of data and really need maximum uptime and data integrity then you should never ever go with provider costing less than US$250/month. If you want the personal treatment, you have to pay for it nowadays.

    BTW how did you detect the failing disk? I hope it wasn't from the SMART read error count - recent Seagate Momentum's always have a rapidly increasing read error count which resets when the power is reset.

    Cheers,
    Niall

  21. #21
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    [QUOTE=ned14;6434264 ...and in every case I have ever heard of they *always* replace *all* the HD's when they pull a rack because it's so costly in manpower to pull a rack at all.[/QUOTE]

    I just asked on the OVH support forum, and an OVH staff member said that is "completely untrue", and that they replace faulty drives only.

    He also said that after the drive is replaced, the data needs to be copied to it (assuming the server has Software RAID), and gave the URL for instructions:

    http://help.ovh.co.uk/RaidSoft

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    Incidentally, in another thread there was someone asking how they could tell if their RAID was working.

    How did you detect you had a failed disk?
    Hi,

    You can do it two simple ways:

    1. Get an over view and look for errors where a 'U' is replaced by a '_'
    Code:
    # cat /proc/mdstat
    Personalities : [linear] [raid0] [raid1] [raid10] [raid6] [raid5] [raid4] [multipath] [faulty]
    md1 : active raid1 sdb1[1] sda1[0]
          9765504 blocks [2/2] [UU]
    
    md3 : active raid1 sdb3[0] sda3[1]
          14655232 blocks [2/2] [UU]
    
    md4 : active raid1 sdb4[0] sda4[1]
          705221248 blocks [2/2] [UU]
    2. Detailed view of a single RAID/partition
    Code:
    # mdadm --detail /dev/md1
    /dev/md1:
            Version : 00.90.03
      Creation Time : Fri Oct  9 00:05:11 2009
         Raid Level : raid1
         Array Size : 9765504 (9.31 GiB 10.00 GB)
        Device Size : 9765504 (9.31 GiB 10.00 GB)
       Raid Devices : 2
      Total Devices : 2
    Preferred Minor : 1
        Persistence : Superblock is persistent
    
        Update Time : Sun Oct 11 10:09:16 2009
              State : clean
     Active Devices : 2
    Working Devices : 2
     Failed Devices : 0
      Spare Devices : 0
    
               UUID : 9e3a63de:b465e054:a4d2adc2:26fd5302
             Events : 0.2
    
        Number   Major   Minor   RaidDevice State
           0       8        1        0      active sync   /dev/sda1
           1       8       17        1      active sync   /dev/sdb1
    Here my raid is 'clean and both disks/partitions are 'active sync'

    Hope this helps.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ned14 View Post
    I am sorry that you have lost your data. However, in fairness, OVH makes absolutely no guarantees regarding your data on their lower end services. If there is a hardware fault of any kind their SLA is to fix that before all else and in every case I have ever heard of they *always* replace *all* the HD's when they pull a rack because it's so costly in manpower to pull a rack at all. It is assumed that before you notify them of a hardware failure you have already backed up all important data beforehand - this is why they provide backup server space with their BestOf plans (admittedly, it isn't enough at 100Gb). If you *did* want guarantees for your data, you need to purchase their level 3 support option while BestOf only comes with level 2.

    Personally I'd rent a bottom end Kimsufi for backup data storage. This makes it much quicker to restore the data. With OVH, as with any of the large cheap providers, you end up doing most of the work yourself. If you have lots of data and really need maximum uptime and data integrity then you should never ever go with provider costing less than US$250/month. If you want the personal treatment, you have to pay for it nowadays.

    BTW how did you detect the failing disk? I hope it wasn't from the SMART read error count - recent Seagate Momentum's always have a rapidly increasing read error count which resets when the power is reset.

    Cheers,
    Niall
    Hi Niall,

    I had sda failing on one of the partitions so I removed it from lvm, then a couple others started failing and wouldn't rebuild so I asked then to remove sda (primary-master) but they decided that sdb was also failing, even though I had lost no data and had no warnings. Now in my world, you do what the client asks for and you might warn him of pending failure of the other disk... but removing all disks in the RAID and reinstalling a new system is not support, it's sabotage. There is no excuse. Worst of all, they have the disks and won't put them back in so that I can sink sdb to a new sda AND they hide behind the fact I accepted there might be data loss. How pathetic is that? Sorry Niall but I don't agree. You don't buy a cheap car and accept it the wheels could come of at any time only because it's cheap.

  24. #24
    I would recommend Softlayer. They use high quality hardware only, same for network. Their RAID setups are 3Ware and Adaptec cards with battery units. Remember, there is a reason for cheap providers. Pay cheap and expect a cheap service. Also never go with software RAID, you WILL have a failure in 4 to 8 months without exceptions with software raid. There are other providers as well that are more less the same price range but I don't usually recommend services that I don't experienced myself. Anyway, you cant blame this on OVH, no providers makes guarantee on your data. What I don't understand is why they decide to do things you did not instructed, specially why will they refuse to pull the old disk back? If you lease a server, you are in charge, the client is the boss.
    Last edited by PYDOT; 10-11-2009 at 04:49 AM.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    Also never go with software RAID, you WILL have a failure in 4 to 8 months without exceptions with software raid.
    So true

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    I just asked on the OVH support forum, and an OVH staff member said that is "completely untrue", and that they replace faulty drives only.
    I didn't mean my statement in the sense of what official policy is - I meant it in the sense of that OVH staff replacing all the discs rather than just one is a very commonly reported problem in their forums and in historical WHT posts. I can understand people's anger, but before I signed up to OVH I did my research and that was one of the results of my research. I might add that I am a very happy customer of OVH's.

    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    Hi Niall,

    I had sda failing on one of the partitions so I removed it from lvm, then a couple others started failing and wouldn't rebuild so I asked then to remove sda (primary-master) but they decided that sdb was also failing, even though I had lost no data and had no warnings. Now in my world, you do what the client asks for and you might warn him of pending failure of the other disk... but removing all disks in the RAID and reinstalling a new system is not support, it's sabotage. There is no excuse. Worst of all, they have the disks and won't put them back in so that I can sink sdb to a new sda AND they hide behind the fact I accepted there might be data loss. How pathetic is that? Sorry Niall but I don't agree. You don't buy a cheap car and accept it the wheels could come of at any time only because it's cheap.
    Well ... if you're aware of the Ford Pinto case of the 1970s, basically until specific car consumer protection legislation was enacted it was taken for granted that cheap cars weren't as safe as expensive cars. With the Pinto in particular it had a nasty habit of exploding if someone tapped into its rear. Best of all Ford not only knew this during its design, but actually ran a cost-benefit model judging that the damages awarded to people suing for burns would cost less than making the car safer.

    When you're dealing with a big business with low margins - and OVH is one of the biggest of its type in the world - you gotta accept that the personal treatment is unlikely. Products from big low margin businesses tend to do everything they say on the tin very well - the only problem is when they go wrong, they really go wrong like the Ford Pinto. They do sell a commodity product after all, so caveat emptor.

    If I were you, I'd go for a really small provider. Years ago I had terrible trouble finding a good European web hosting company after having been with the really excellent pair.com for years beforehand. I went with very well known providers with excellent reputations according to WHT only to find the most appalling and shocking treatment e.g. of one of many things the DNS for my main personal website, nedprod.com, was redirected to a pornographic website along with all my email. That particular one went real nasty with its owner, a very well known person here on WHT at the time, tried reporting me to the police and my university for blackmail because I demanded my money back and he refused to provide it so I threatened to go public with a log of his company's mistreatment of me (I should add that I think he himself was competent, but his staff were not. That said you need to eat humble pie in such a situation and not go for the jugular of your customer at a personal level).

    After being very bruised by a string of very poor experiences, I eventually found Phil at lchost.co.uk who was a small operator at the time and I have never looked back since. They still have the personal touch - Phil recently added IPv6 support to his operations just because I wanted it. And even though I now have a small farm of my own servers, he'll be remaining my "worst comes to worst" backup for the foreseeable future.

    So, in short, find yourself a small but cheap provider and be prepared to get it wrong the first few times. Once you find that needle in the haystack, sit back and feel very pleased!

    HTH,
    Niall

  27. #27
    ned14,

    Thanks for your words. I agree entirely with what you say. I just find it's a shame that so few people take pride in the service they offer. There lack of professionlism puts me in a bad spot but like you say, try and error 'till you find the gem!

    Accidentally (no pun intended ) was there not a film about car companies that weighed the costs of claims versus redesign?

    Kind regards,
    -Edoardo

  28. #28
    It's rare to see OVH act that way, i thought they were superb

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    Also never go with software RAID, you WILL have a failure in 4 to 8 months without exceptions with software raid.
    Do you have data to back this claim? Also, is this Linux software RAID you are referring to? Anyway, we have software RAID with years of uptime.

    Regards
    UNIXy - Fully Managed Servers and Clusters - Established in 2006
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  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by UNIXy View Post
    Do you have data to back this claim? Also, is this Linux software RAID you are referring to? Anyway, we have software RAID with years of uptime.

    Regards
    Well, how a about a major computer store that sells thousands of computers per year?
    http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29

    You must be really lucky them or running low intensive write/read data on the disks.

    There is a reason why hardware raid card exists. You will not expect your 200$ motherboard to have the same raid features a 300$ raid card alone has. Or its that, or 90% of webhosts/datacenters/business, etc are just stupid, spendings their money on useless raid cards. Including myself.
    Last edited by PYDOT; 10-13-2009 at 12:36 AM.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    Well, how a about a major computer store that sells thousands of computers per year?
    http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29
    That says "Unfortunately, it is not as clear of a number when it comes down to how many RAID failures there have been. Since it is not a black and white failure issue, I do not have hard data."

  32. #32
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    How about renting two servers with OVH. (or other low cost provider as long as there network is reliable!)
    Any server can brake. Restoring backups always take time.
    Having two servers and mirroring your data between them enables you to be up and running with minimal down time in case of server/ hardrive crash.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    Well, how a about a major computer store that sells thousands of computers per year?
    http://www.pugetsystems.com/articles?&id=29
    I read the article but it has no substance. Hardware vendors want you to buy hardware.

    Quote Originally Posted by PYDOT View Post
    You must be really lucky them or running low intensive write/read data on the disks.
    It's many systems happily running very heavy disk IO for years now. Not single case of a broken array due to software raid (we have a client that loves to pull the power plug every other day for some reason). Have you ever rebuilt a broken array using raid controllers from different vendors? I was curious if you knew the difference between a disk controller and a raid controller. Understanding the former reinforces the strength of software (kernel) raid.

    Software raid has its weaknesses of course.

    Regards
    UNIXy - Fully Managed Servers and Clusters - Established in 2006
    [ cPanel Varnish Nginx Plugin ] - Enhance LiteSpeed and Apache Performance
    www.unixy.net - Los Angeles | Houston | Atlanta | Rotterdam
    Love to help pro bono (time permitting). joe > unixy.net

  34. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by snef View Post
    How about renting two servers with OVH. (or other low cost provider as long as there network is reliable!)
    Any server can brake. Restoring backups always take time.
    Having two servers and mirroring your data between them enables you to be up and running with minimal down time in case of server/ hardrive crash.
    Would you seriously consider OVH after what happened to me? Is your reasoning, buy twice as much as what you need because they are bad (to say the least) at what they do. I think not. I find a decent provider and stick with him. This time round, service quality will be as important as hardware!

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by eco6905 View Post
    Would you seriously consider OVH after what happened to me? Is your reasoning, buy twice as much as what you need because they are bad (to say the least) at what they do. I think not. I find a decent provider and stick with him. This time round, service quality will be as important as hardware!
    I think this time round, you should ensure you have a method of continuing your service regardless of what your service provider does.

  36. #36
    Oh I had that. I didn't put all my eggs in the same basket. It just greatly disrupted my work and added a week of installations, configurations and restore. My documentation was useless as they enforced some rules which where not there the first time round.

    I'm just glad that OVH was my fallback environment and not the main one.

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