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  1. #1

    where can i find a host that actuley owns the servers

    im in the market for a hosting company and it seems hardly any actuley own all the equipment and rather just outsource the hosting. im looking to host a bunch of small websites with info geared towards google adsence. so i need something that will handel more then 20 domains and frontpage extensions. any recommendations?

  2. #2
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    You could always try a cPanel VPS. Then, you are the one who exclusively uses your cPanel/WHM space.

    Another option would be to get a reseller account at a provider.
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  3. #3
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    Most hosts out there DON'T own their servers and equipment. I would say the majority LEASE their servers, which allows them to upgrade their servers without having to buy new parts like RAM, CPU's, ect. every few months. Since their provider owns all the equipment and handles all of that.

    Just think about it..If you buy 10 servers and colocate them somewhere, sooner or later you're going to have to upgrade all 10 servers. But, if you lease them, you'll always have the latest equipment. It's pretty much the smart thing to do IMHO.
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  4. #4
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    lucky6man,

    How much disk space and bandwidth do you need (not want)?

    What is your budget? Please specify if it's monthly or yearly.
    What's your budget?

    Seriously, what's your budget?

  5. #5
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    It's true that most providers do indeed lease their equipment as far as servers go. However, there are several providers who also own their equipment and colocates them in various datacenters. I really don't see too much of an advantage that the customer may have if a provider owns their equipment or not. Perhaps stability of service but I can't see how much that would help.

  6. #6
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    You should use a host that continues to support Windows 2003. That eliminates any recommendations that mention cpanel.
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  7. #7
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    rather just outsource the hosting.
    Then you'd basically have to go with hosts that own their data centers and also offer shared hosting (seems to be what you require), which will limit your options rather needlessly. In any case, Liquidweb would be such a host.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by igxhost View Post
    It's true that most providers do indeed lease their equipment as far as servers go. However, there are several providers who also own their equipment and colocates them in various datacenters. I really don't see too much of an advantage that the customer may have if a provider owns their equipment or not. Perhaps stability of service but I can't see how much that would help.
    To be honest I've seen just as many hosts go out of business which own their own servers vs ones that lease. Unless Hostgator has changed from a couple years ago, they are a perfect example of a company leasing equipment.

    I'll speak from personal experience:
    We started out with nearly $80,000 of datacenter gear, servers, switches, etc. After less than 2 years we were still backwards on most of the equipment simply due to the upgrade requirements in this industry. In order to stay on the edge, you normally need to continually upgrade. Shared hosting environments are a perfect example where you want to get the most bang for your buck.

    It really isn't cost-effective for a host to own their own equipment. It's a safer bet to allow the datacenter to foot that cost as they will recoup it. People still buy server equipment that's 5 years old. They'll still lease it. Datacenters are much better equipped to re-use that equipment whereas most hosts would be trading in or tossing gear every 2 years. Considering an HP DL380G6 will cost $4,800 with a base 12GB build. It would take at least a year in most situations to make back that money. After a year, sure it's profitable, but until that point you have made $0.

    Leasing allows a host to spread out the cost and upgrade/downgrade as required. We have had a month where we took on a big project and leased 7 new servers. The next month we canceled 4 of them. Had we owned them, we'd been stuck with that expense for the long-haul.

    If you really want to judge stability then you're better off judging by customer base and years in business. Leasing will likely keep a host in business longer than purchase agreements
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  9. #9
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    It is more cost effective in the long term to own your own equipment. We own most of our servers, and simply colocate. Its simple and effective, you wouldn't notice now, however should you be owning your own equipment you'll find its more cost effective in the long run.

    Leasing is generally for short term, unless you've arranged a special deal with your provider to get a cheaper price for maybe a year commitment.

    To sum it all up:

    Own - Cost effective in the long run
    Lease - Depending on how you organize can be advantage & disadvantage. You got the advantage of not having to upgrade HW and your provider will be having to keep up to date with tech not you.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by AHN-Andrew View Post
    It is more cost effective in the long term to own your own equipment. We own most of our servers, and simply colocate. Its simple and effective, you wouldn't notice now, however should you be owning your own equipment you'll find its more cost effective in the long run.

    Leasing is generally for short term, unless you've arranged a special deal with your provider to get a cheaper price for maybe a year commitment.

    To sum it all up:

    Own - Cost effective in the long run
    Lease - Depending on how you organize can be advantage & disadvantage. You got the advantage of not having to upgrade HW and your provider will be having to keep up to date with tech not you.
    May be the case but if you're buying from a vendor such as HP/Dell/SUN then I don't see how you're seeing that long-term come out so much ahead. If you're building your own servers then I can see where that could be the case. The concern there is the possibility of faulty hardware, replacements hardware to be kept in stock, lack of support, and lack of trade-in.

    To each their own I guess. Like I said, our personal experience was that leasing was much more cost-effective long-term. We always have the newest gear, replacement hardware, and never have to worry about blowing the dust off of memory that has been on the shelf 6 months *just in case* something breaks.

    Now days it almost seems like more of a hassle than it's worth. Although, that's where it comes back to what you prefer. If you trust your datacenter and you know they have good techs, response times, etc. It's easier to just let them handle the equipment side while your support teams focus on the customers and the OS.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by ServerOrigin View Post
    May be the case but if you're buying from a vendor such as HP/Dell/SUN then I don't see how you're seeing that long-term come out so much ahead.
    Because the posted price is NOT the price anyone buying more than a few units pays. The real price is substantially lower. Then, you bring in their leasing arms. It gets to the point where you could not possibly build a whitebox for less.

    To add to the general discussion, there is some clarification needed. There are three, not two forms of server acquisition.

    1. purchase
    2. lease
    3. rent

    The hosts who use #1 and #2 have a long term financial commitment to the equipment and directly control it.

    The hosts who use #3 do not have any long term financial commitment to that particular box. In fact, it belongs to the data center and the host is in fact a reseller.

    To make it easy to diffentiate, the hosts in #3 cannot move the box out of the current location. It is not theirs to move.

    Now, to be more confusing, even though the hosts using #1 and #2 to acquire servers to sell are free to move the equipment out, it is they who are more stable. They don't just decide to uproot everything and move to a different data center just because the rented server might be $10 a month cheaper.

    In fact, the server will never be cheaper because they either already bought it, or it is on a multi-year fixed cost lease.

    The hosts using #1 and #2 are in fact co-locating their servers at the data center while the hosts in #3 are renting servers owned by a data center.

    The stability comes from the fact that the colocated hosts have a greater long term commitment with respect to both their servers and space. The reseller hosts can come and go in a blink of an eye. Just rent a new server at a new data center and drag all the clients behind. The problem is, the clients don't necessarily want the disruption that is involved in a server move.

    It is possible to start a colocation based host on a shoe string, just like the reseller based hosts. But, it is a much longer shoestring
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    Because the posted price is NOT the price anyone buying more than a few units pays. The real price is substantially lower. Then, you bring in their leasing arms. It gets to the point where you could not possibly build a whitebox for less.

    To add to the general discussion, there is some clarification needed. There are three, not two forms of server acquisition.

    1. purchase
    2. lease
    3. rent

    The hosts who use #1 and #2 have a long term financial commitment to the equipment and directly control it.

    The hosts who use #3 do not have any long term financial commitment to that particular box. In fact, it belongs to the data center and the host is in fact a reseller.

    To make it easy to diffentiate, the hosts in #3 cannot move the box out of the current location. It is not theirs to move.

    Now, to be more confusing, even though the hosts using #1 and #2 to acquire servers to sell are free to move the equipment out, it is they who are more stable. They don't just decide to uproot everything and move to a different data center just because the rented server might be $10 a month cheaper.

    In fact, the server will never be cheaper because they either already bought it, or it is on a multi-year fixed cost lease.

    The hosts using #1 and #2 are in fact co-locating their servers at the data center while the hosts in #3 are renting servers owned by a data center.

    The stability comes from the fact that the colocated hosts have a greater long term commitment with respect to both their servers and space. The reseller hosts can come and go in a blink of an eye. Just rent a new server at a new data center and drag all the clients behind. The problem is, the clients don't necessarily want the disruption that is involved in a server move.

    It is possible to start a colocation based host on a shoe string, just like the reseller based hosts. But, it is a much longer shoestring
    Makes sense what you're saying... Although, we continue to purchase servers at one of our other companies. Albeit, our volume isn't really high but we purchase regularly. Our price has gone substantially lower than the normal tagged price but I sincerely doubt many hosts are purchasing enough servers to get below $700-$800 which is what most HIGH END white box servers will cost to build. We can get Sun x4150's around $2370 but that still isn't <$1000
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  13. #13
    Very interesting, no one answered your question.

    What you want to ask of your prospective hosts to determine if they own their own DC is:

    1. Are you a reseller?
    2. Do you own your own DC or are you just renting cage space?
    3. Can I tour your facility?
    a. What type of cooling do you have in place?
    b. What certifications is the DC held to?
    c. Fire Suppression?

    I hope that this helps. Be thorough in your questioning as many seem to want to represent themselves as the owner's of the DC. Also please keep in mind that there are good Resellers available but I would certainly want them to be honest with me and not misrepresent their ownership in the hardware.

    Hope this helped.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by ServerOrigin View Post
    Makes sense what you're saying... Although, we continue to purchase servers at one of our other companies. Albeit, our volume isn't really high but we purchase regularly. Our price has gone substantially lower than the normal tagged price but I sincerely doubt many hosts are purchasing enough servers to get below $700-$800 which is what most HIGH END white box servers will cost to build. We can get Sun x4150's around $2370 but that still isn't <$1000
    SUN is not a big discounter. But DELL, IBM and HP are. In particular DELL and IBM. Too bad I'm partial to HP and SUN.

    Even if you can build the whitebox cheaper, certain clients, the ones who pay well and don't argue about price, won't touch them. You can sell until you're blue in the face, and they won't buy. You can tell them they are just as good, which I sincerely do not believe, and they will not close the deal.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    SUN is not a big discounter. But DELL, IBM and HP are. In particular DELL and IBM. Too bad I'm partial to HP and SUN.

    Even if you can build the whitebox cheaper, certain clients, the ones who pay well and don't argue about price, won't touch them. You can sell until you're blue in the face, and they won't buy. You can tell them they are just as good, which I sincerely do not believe, and they will not close the deal.
    Agreed.

    /end for me

    I apologize to the op for derailing
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by HostLeet View Post
    Most hosts out there DON'T own their servers and equipment. I would say the majority LEASE their servers, which allows them to upgrade their servers without having to buy new parts like RAM, CPU's, ect. every few months. Since their provider owns all the equipment and handles all of that.

    Just think about it..If you buy 10 servers and colocate them somewhere, sooner or later you're going to have to upgrade all 10 servers. But, if you lease them, you'll always have the latest equipment. It's pretty much the smart thing to do IMHO.
    Serevers? Really? I though that is the must to have at least a server for the web hosting company

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SiberForum View Post
    Serevers? Really? I though that is the must to have at least a server for the web hosting company
    Huh? I'm not quite sure what you mean by your post..All I said is that most hosts LEASE their servers and not OWN them.
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  18. #18
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    Indeed they have dedicated servers. Once they are huge enough and then they switch to the colocation
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