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Thread: Power Metering

  1. #1
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    Power Metering

    I wonder if any colocation providers here have any tips for measuring power. Currently I'm using APC 7900 power strips with amperage meter. I'm not a power expert by any means but I want to be able to calculate whats the cost having a server drawing 2 amps 24/7 365 days week.

    Our secondary site gave us a whopping power bill, and at our own data center we never considered charging our customers for power.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamic Concepts View Post
    at our own data center we never considered charging our customers for power.
    That is all I have to say about that.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamic Concepts View Post
    I wonder if any colocation providers here have any tips for measuring power. Currently I'm using APC 7900 power strips with amperage meter. I'm not a power expert by any means but I want to be able to calculate whats the cost having a server drawing 2 amps 24/7 365 days week.

    Our secondary site gave us a whopping power bill, and at our own data center we never considered charging our customers for power.
    Um, before you change that policy, can I sign up at your site since power is free?
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    Address please? got about 1,000 masssssive server to send you guys
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    Nothing is ever free ... it's probably made up for in the cost for rackspace or bandwidth.
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    Power isn't free but just bundled into the rack/bandwidth. Our existing customers have been good and only use 2 20amp circuits in a 40u rack. But a few are requesting their 3rd and 4th circuits. So I been trying to find a way to properly calculate and charge ala cart style.

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    A fully loaded 20amp circuit (16.4amps) in our market costs $99.19 per month in raw electricity.

    Amps x volts = watts / 1000 = Kilowatts x 720 (hours in a month) = Killowatt Hours x electric rate = cost over a month.

    Then add all the other costs for cooling, UPS, generator, etc on top of that.
    Last edited by WII-Aaron; 09-10-2009 at 03:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WII-Aaron View Post
    A fully loaded 20amp circuit (16.4amps) in our market costs $99.19 per month in raw electricity.

    Amps x volts = watts / 1000 = Kilowatts x 720 (hours in a month) = Killowatt Hours x electric rate = cost over a month.

    Then add all the other costs for cooling, UPS, generator, etc on top of that.
    Thanks for the formula.

    Our generator gets tested once a week for 15 minutes, so I can measure how many gallons of fuel it consumes. It uses about 1/4 of a tank in 6 months.

    For the A/C I need to log how many minutes the A/C unit runs for in a day, I think thats going to be hard unless I sit next to the unit and time it.

    Not sure how I would calculate the UPS, other than the cost of maintenance of keeping the batteries fresh.

  9. #9
    To be on the safe side - combined it is about $15 to $20 per AMP (110V) - price that you charge or may be your cost, if you factor in price per AMP from power company (different in different regions), type/number of UPS-es, AC-es, maintenance plans, etc.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamic Concepts View Post
    Thanks for the formula.

    Our generator gets tested once a week for 15 minutes, so I can measure how many gallons of fuel it consumes. It uses about 1/4 of a tank in 6 months.

    For the A/C I need to log how many minutes the A/C unit runs for in a day, I think thats going to be hard unless I sit next to the unit and time it.

    Not sure how I would calculate the UPS, other than the cost of maintenance of keeping the batteries fresh.
    Well, your hvac is going to be a tough one to measure exactly, as you may or may not know the running electrical motor on the blower isn't so much of a hog as are your compressors which will cycle on and off as nessecary. You can very accurately predict your cost to spin that blower 24/7 the harder one is to predict your compressor run time.

    Might want to look into PacketPower and see if they have a solution that can integrate with monitoring of your hvac system. I know they have a number of in-line products, not sure if they are only on the 120v/208v side or if they do larger 460/80 3ph or what.

  11. #11

    regarding power measurement - powerware has those BIG devices to measure the amperage

    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    Well, your hvac is going to be a tough one to measure exactly, as you may or may not know the running electrical motor on the blower isn't so much of a hog as are your compressors which will cycle on and off as nessecary. You can very accurately predict your cost to spin that blower 24/7 the harder one is to predict your compressor run time.

    Might want to look into PacketPower and see if they have a solution that can integrate with monitoring of your hvac system. I know they have a number of in-line products, not sure if they are only on the 120v/208v side or if they do larger 460/80 3ph or what.
    regarding power measurement - powerware has those BIG devices to measuse the amperage, not sure even if their name is - may be "PacketPower" - I think wiresix saw them at his father-in-law's DC they do up to 208V, not sure about 480 - don't think, actually that they will support 480V

    If you are interested - I'll give you the name of the company who does installations and are familiar with them.
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    regarding power measurement - powerware has those BIG devices to measuse the amperage, not sure even if their name is - may be "PacketPower" - I think wiresix saw them at his father-in-law's DC they do up to 208V, not sure about 480 - don't think, actually that they will support 480V

    If you are interested - I'll give you the name of the company who does installations and are familiar with them.
    No, you are talking about your Emerson Power PDU's which do in-line power readings at the PDU level, we do the exact same thing with our Starline Busway, same thing, different device.

    What I am referring to is PacketPower, http://www.packet-power.com/, that offers power metering devices that all co-habitate on a mesh wireless RF network and allow for facility wide monitoring without the deployment of a new network fabric. They also have some pretty nifty tools to collect, report, and manage the data you gather.

    Talked with their people and got to look at their devices at HostingCon this year, it's definitely neat and if we didn't already have a monitoring solution in place would definitely consider deploying it.

  13. #13
    There was some kind of limitation with Starline Busway, you know I have people who are dealing with that stuff, but they had explained to me at some point of time. Can't remember now...

    www.packet-power.com looks interesting, but looks like they are too new - know knows if their stuff is reliable? May be later on...
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    WireSix, do know how much a system like packet-power cost? Currently i'm using my APC 7900 to do PDU monitoring but I'm clueless on how much the A/C units cost so this would be an interesting solution. Looks like if you have a 40U cage ur going to have to deal with 40 of these dongles which are pretty big imo.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    There was some kind of limitation with Starline Busway, you know I have people who are dealing with that stuff, but they had explained to me at some point of time. Can't remember now...

    www.packet-power.com looks interesting, but looks like they are too new - know knows if their stuff is reliable? May be later on...
    A busway is no different than any other power delivery system, you are limited in what capacity you spec and design for. Much like you only have XXkva rating on said pdu, each bus is only rated to what it is breaker'd at / designed for. The bus is the same as the cabinet with your PDU in it, you plug in individual breakers to feed each circuit.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynamic Concepts View Post
    WireSix, do know how much a system like packet-power cost? Currently i'm using my APC 7900 to do PDU monitoring but I'm clueless on how much the A/C units cost so this would be an interesting solution. Looks like if you have a 40U cage ur going to have to deal with 40 of these dongles which are pretty big imo.
    They aren't that big and they would actually be your power cord, not a dongle so you would just replace what ever power cord you have going to each server.

    If you didn't use the APC for power switching capabailities this could offer you greater granular data going forward and better options for management of power data.

    I honestly have no idea on their costs so I can't speak to that. Yes, they are new and I think their products are a great idea and could really see them in use in a facility.

  17. #17

    I think I remeber what was that

    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    A busway is no different than any other power delivery system, you are limited in what capacity you spec and design for. Much like you only have XXkva rating on said pdu, each bus is only rated to what it is breaker'd at / designed for. The bus is the same as the cabinet with your PDU in it, you plug in individual breakers to feed each circuit.
    I think it is like cable vs DSL - cable could be saturated with the increased number of users. The same way BUS could be overloaded by putting too much stuff on it (one more bottleneck in the power distribution).

    There was something else - don't remember what.

    Was the HostingCon interesting? - probably have to start a new thread or to go to an appropriate section of WHT.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    I think it is like cable vs DSL - cable could be saturated with the increased number of users. The same way BUS could be overloaded by putting too much stuff on it (one more bottleneck in the power distribution).

    There was something else - don't remember what.

    Was the HostingCon interesting? - probably have to start a new thread or to go to an appropriate section of WHT.
    Sure, a bus could easily be overloaded if improperly planned, just as a PDU/Panel could.

    I can only speak to our example of a design but our bus system is specifically broken up in to multiple segments and designed to run at under 70% load per bus segment at maximum cabinet capacity. It's all in the design, there are pros and cons to every solution. If planned and deployed properly either will be just as successful and reliable.

  19. #19

    ;)

    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    Sure, a bus could easily be overloaded if improperly planned, just as a PDU/Panel could.

    I can only speak to our example of a design but our bus system is specifically broken up in to multiple segments and designed to run at under 70% load per bus segment at maximum cabinet capacity. It's all in the design, there are pros and cons to every solution. If planned and deployed properly either will be just as successful and reliable.
    Hey, you can upgrade PDU or add another one. Much more difficult than upgrading/adding bus - again DSL/cable case
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    Hey, you can upgrade PDU or add another one. Much more difficult than upgrading/adding bus - again DSL/cable case
    I'm not sure if you are familiar with what a bus deployment actually is, we can upgrade, replace, remove, add more at any given time, install time is about 3 hours of electricians hooking them up, each are landed into a separate main breaker. Each is independent of the other.

    Again, it's all in the design of what the deployment calls for.

    For example, our next build out we are using a PDU/Whip deployment as it is simply the best solution for that build. One is not inherently better than the other.

  21. #21

    I think this is what Powerware has PDU/Whip

    Quote Originally Posted by WireSix View Post
    I'm not sure if you are familiar with what a bus deployment actually is, we can upgrade, replace, remove, add more at any given time, install time is about 3 hours of electricians hooking them up, each are landed into a separate main breaker. Each is independent of the other.

    Again, it's all in the design of what the deployment calls for.

    For example, our next build out we are using a PDU/Whip deployment as it is simply the best solution for that build. One is not inherently better than the other.
    I think this is what Powerware has - PDU/Whip, or if you are more familiar - Emerson? (almost like Lake and Palmer )
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  22. #22
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    Does your UPS give you output side kW? If so, all you do take your kW * 720, that equals the kWh of your critical load in a given month. Then, take your power bill, subtract the kWh of your critical load from your kWh of your total usage, and then you have pretty good idea how much kWh goes to things like cooling, lighting, power factor on your UPS, etc.

    From there, you can determine the ration between critical load and your critical load overhead, and extend your per kWh cost into a load cost per 120v amp per month.

    For instance, if you have 100kW on your UPS system, you have usage of 72,000kWh for your critical load. If your total building wide / suite wide usage is 100,000 kWh, you know that 28,000 kWh is overhead that goes into cooling, etc. For every 1kW of critical load, you have .388 kW of overhead. If your utility cost is $.05 per kWh, and 1kWh critical load = 1.388 kWh total load, your loaded cost per kWh is $.0694. Your total monthly cost per 120v amp is $5.99/mo.

    These numbers are all fairly hypothetical, and in order to get your total utility per kWh rate, you may have to do some math as well, because typically you might see multiple different demand charges, taxes, offset fees, transmission charges, in additional to a naked per kWh rate. You'll want to calculate that by just taking your total utility cost and dividing into the number of kWh used for the whole month.

    Beyond actual utility cost, you also have to factor in maintenance on your power plant, and depreciation/amortization on your power plant. If you don't know, determine the installed cost for your UPS, PDUs, power distribution, generator figure it out, and then figure out the lifetime for these components. Also determine how much critical load your power plant can support. Let's assume your cost is $1m USD, and your max critical load is 250kW, and your life span is 10 years. Using straight line depreciation, you have monthly power plant depreciation of $8333.33, and that works out to be $33.33 per kW, or $3.9996 per amp, per month. Beyond that, assuming you are looking at $5000/yr in maintenance expenses, your maintenance for your power plant, per built out critical load, your monthly maintenance cost is $416.66, your per kW maintenance cost is $1.6666 and your per amp maintenance cost is $.1999. Factoring all of these together, utility, deprecation and maintenance costs, you are looking at an all in expense of $10.1895 per used amp, or $163.032 per month, per 20 amp circuit, that's got 16 amps of usage.

    Of course, all of these numbers are hypothetical. However, not having a good understanding of power costs can be a big problem, as power is probably going to be one of your top 3-4 big operational expenses (space, bandwidth, power and people).
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    Quote Originally Posted by tulix View Post
    Hey, you can upgrade PDU or add another one. Much more difficult than upgrading/adding bus - again DSL/cable case
    Can a bus be fed from two separate transformers with an interlock? That would be cool.

    If a transformer in a PDU needs replacement (or even, the lugs just need to be retorqued), then you're out of luck. It would be nifty to wire-up a disconnect between the transformer and the bus it serves; then, if the primary transformer should require maintenance, use temporary wiring to feed the bus via lugs at the other end of the bus, and disconnect the primary for maintenance.

    I suppose you could do the same thing with a PDU, if the breaker panels all had double lugs, and you pre-wired the secondary lugs from each panel to a separate 225A disconnect. But more work.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Suds View Post
    Does your UPS give you output side kW? If so, all you do take your kW * 720, that equals the kWh of your critical load in a given month. Then, take your power bill, subtract the kWh of your critical load from your kWh of your total usage, and then you have pretty good idea how much kWh goes to things like cooling, lighting, power factor on your UPS, etc.

    From there, you can determine the ration between critical load and your critical load overhead, and extend your per kWh cost into a load cost per 120v amp per month.

    For instance, if you have 100kW on your UPS system, you have usage of 72,000kWh for your critical load. If your total building wide / suite wide usage is 100,000 kWh, you know that 28,000 kWh is overhead that goes into cooling, etc. For every 1kW of critical load, you have .388 kW of overhead. If your utility cost is $.05 per kWh, and 1kWh critical load = 1.388 kWh total load, your loaded cost per kWh is $.0694. Your total monthly cost per 120v amp is $5.99/mo.

    These numbers are all fairly hypothetical, and in order to get your total utility per kWh rate, you may have to do some math as well, because typically you might see multiple different demand charges, taxes, offset fees, transmission charges, in additional to a naked per kWh rate. You'll want to calculate that by just taking your total utility cost and dividing into the number of kWh used for the whole month.

    Beyond actual utility cost, you also have to factor in maintenance on your power plant, and depreciation/amortization on your power plant. If you don't know, determine the installed cost for your UPS, PDUs, power distribution, generator figure it out, and then figure out the lifetime for these components. Also determine how much critical load your power plant can support. Let's assume your cost is $1m USD, and your max critical load is 250kW, and your life span is 10 years. Using straight line depreciation, you have monthly power plant depreciation of $8333.33, and that works out to be $33.33 per kW, or $3.9996 per amp, per month. Beyond that, assuming you are looking at $5000/yr in maintenance expenses, your maintenance for your power plant, per built out critical load, your monthly maintenance cost is $416.66, your per kW maintenance cost is $1.6666 and your per amp maintenance cost is $.1999. Factoring all of these together, utility, deprecation and maintenance costs, you are looking at an all in expense of $10.1895 per used amp, or $163.032 per month, per 20 amp circuit, that's got 16 amps of usage.

    Of course, all of these numbers are hypothetical. However, not having a good understanding of power costs can be a big problem, as power is probably going to be one of your top 3-4 big operational expenses (space, bandwidth, power and people).
    Thanks Jay, I'll give it another good read when I get into the office tomorrow. Our UPS has a lcd screen with the kW readings.

  25. #25

    You can add additional circuits for cabinets in paralell

    Quote Originally Posted by speedcolo View Post
    Can a bus be fed from two separate transformers with an interlock? That would be cool.

    If a transformer in a PDU needs replacement (or even, the lugs just need to be retorqued), then you're out of luck. It would be nifty to wire-up a disconnect between the transformer and the bus it serves; then, if the primary transformer should require maintenance, use temporary wiring to feed the bus via lugs at the other end of the bus, and disconnect the primary for maintenance.

    I suppose you could do the same thing with a PDU, if the breaker panels all had double lugs, and you pre-wired the secondary lugs from each panel to a separate 225A disconnect. But more work.
    You can add additional circuits for cabinets in parallel and from additional PDU without disrupting the power. You can install additional panels within the PDU without disrupting existing power lines. I don't think we have transformers inside the PDU, so I am not sure why you are talking about transformers inside PDUs.
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