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Thread: magento

  1. #1
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    magento

    anyone using magento?

    we have been testing a store using it and its pretty great -- except the forums are pretty sparse..... posts go unanswered for months -- if not forever!

  2. #2
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    Magento is very powerful and a great system, the built in Magento Connect is a very useful feature so if you haven't had time to play around with it definitely check it out.

    It's a bit of a resource hog though.
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  3. #3
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    From my testing of Magento it was slow once loaded fully with products. I moved my store to cs-cart. $265 for more options and speed well worth it.

  4. #4
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    From playing around with it Magento does appear to be a pretty powerful piece of software, but I do have to agree with the others that it is a bit of a resource hog. I haven't messed with it in a while so I don't know how much they have been improving on that.

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  5. #5
    Probably one of the most feature rich solutions around but it really uses too much ressources. So here is how I decide:
    - I have a big budget and need high customization and many many features: I go with Magento and get a dedicated server for it.
    - I have a small budget and reasonable needs: I use PrestaShop and run it on a shared hosting flawlessly.
    So it really depends on your situation.

  6. #6
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    Magento is nice, however it is heavy on the slow server, because they use the zend framework. Also the magento is not secure sometimes, "magento connect" and upgrade features require the 777 permissions on all files and folders of magento, for remote modules installation and upgrades.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by avactis View Post
    Also the magento is not secure sometimes, "magento connect" and upgrade features require the 777 permissions on all files and folders of magento, for remote modules installation and upgrades.
    This is not true at all. If the hosting provider uses suPHP/suEXEC, users can use 644/755 and not 777 for Magento Connect to work properly. I consider this as the hosting provider's shortfall, not Magento.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    This is not true at all. If the hosting provider uses suPHP/suEXEC, users can use 644/755 and not 777 for Magento Connect to work properly. I consider this as the hosting provider's shortfall, not Magento.
    http://www.magentocommerce.com/wiki/...em_permissions

    official magento wiki page:

    "In this case the simplest way to make necessary files writable is to give them 777 (world writable) permission, although this is by far not very secure"

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by avactis View Post
    http://www.magentocommerce.com/wiki/...em_permissions

    official magento wiki page:

    "In this case the simplest way to make necessary files writable is to give them 777 (world writable) permission, although this is by far not very secure"
    This only applies to hosting providers which are not running suPHP/suEXEC, such as mod_php. Most, if not all of the reliable hosting provider nowadays uses suPHP/suEXEC.
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  10. #10
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  11. #11
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    yes, but there are a lot of hostings (even big) without suexec, and it is not clear how to secure magento in this case, as you see even official documentation recommend to use the 777 on all files/folders

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by avactis View Post
    yes, but there are a lot of hostings (even big) without suexec, and it is not clear how to secure magento in this case, as you see even official documentation recommend to use the 777 on all files/folders
    I am sorry if you feel offended but I need to correct you again. The official Wiki (read: can be edited by anyone) only recommends 777 if your host is using mod_php (which is not suPHP/suEXEC). For suPHP/suEXEC environment it states that the files and directories cannot have world writable permissions, eg. 666 and 777.

    As for lots of hosting provider who does not use suEXEC, I am not sure whether it is safe going with them anyway. Besides that, most big (read: unlimited oversellers) cannot even run Magento properly due to their overloaded servers and weak hardwares, same goes for your average shared hosting providers.

    P/S: No offense posed, only professional discussions.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    I am sorry if you feel offended but I need to correct you again. The official Wiki (read: can be edited by anyone) only recommends 777 if your host is using mod_php (which is not suPHP/suEXEC). For suPHP/suEXEC environment it states that the files and directories cannot have world writable permissions, eg. 666 and 777.
    1.

    Magento recommend 777 permissions for "magento connect" everywhere in the wiki, another example
    http://www.magentocommerce.com/wiki/...agento_connect

    2.

    Magento creates a lot of files (e.g. log files, etc) with the 777 permissions by default, it is hardcoded to the code of magento.

    JLHC, you wrote this on the magento forum, about this behavior of magento:
    link: http://www.magentocommerce.com/board...read/5395/P15/

    --
    Yes I do not agree on the 777 file permissions as it may compromise the security of the store. This is one of the few reasons for us to go for suPHP/suEXEC which only uses 644 for files and 755 for directories.
    --

    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    As for lots of hosting provider who does not use suEXEC, I am not sure whether it is safe going with them anyway. Besides that, most big (read: unlimited oversellers) cannot even run Magento properly due to their overloaded servers and weak hardwares, same goes for your average shared hosting providers.
    As a conclusion: it is not secure to use magento on most of the shared hostings. The server performance and security should be tuned up in a special way for magento system.

    ***

    I just want to say, that a lot of people use the shared environment, and the magento is not an option for all these people because of security and performance issues.

  14. #14
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    I am not sure what you are trying to proof here, avactis but what I can say is many hosting providers are already using suPHP/suEXEC for security purposes. I am not sure how secure the server of a hosting provider will be if they do not use it, imho.

    Another thing to add is Magento is not suitable for massively oversold unlimited hosting provider which is very slow and sometimes insecure (as stated above, eg. non-suPHP/suEXEC).
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    As for lots of hosting provider who does not use suEXEC, I am not sure whether it is safe going with them anyway.
    I would fully agree with this. Most hosting companies do not allow to use 777 permissions, and that is normal practice actually. And using suEXEC is normal practice also, if hosting company does not even consider using it, then most likely administrators do not care about customers at all.

    ps. my post is even not about Magento, just saw your discussion...
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by numerix View Post
    Probably one of the most feature rich solutions around but it really uses too much ressources. So here is how I decide:
    - I have a big budget and need high customization and many many features: I go with Magento and get a dedicated server for it.
    - I have a small budget and reasonable needs: I use PrestaShop and run it on a shared hosting flawlessly.
    So it really depends on your situation.
    Would the hosts who optimize their shared hosting product for Magento agree with this position? MediaLayer, Aspiration, and Precision Effect specifically?

    Maybe those hosts would agree that as a Magento store grows, it should be moved progressively up the hosting ladder, but not necessarily drop Magento for PrestaShop?

    Chris

  17. #17
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    the magento required the VPS or dedicated server as the software very hungry for resources and on shared hosting will be very slow!
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by forwardgear View Post
    Would the hosts who optimize their shared hosting product for Magento agree with this position? MediaLayer, Aspiration, and Precision Effect specifically?

    Maybe those hosts would agree that as a Magento store grows, it should be moved progressively up the hosting ladder, but not necessarily drop Magento for PrestaShop?

    Chris
    Well unless you are running an eCommerce store with thousands of products and have tonnes of traffic, Magento does run fine in an optimized shared hosting environment.

    A dedicated server with no proper optimization and with a poor specification may not be able to match the speed of a properly optimized high-end shared hosting account when running Magento.

    PrestaShop itself is a wonderful shopping cart as well and I do recommend them to clients who favour simplicity more than functionality, so it all comes down to personal preference and business requirements in terms of choosing which shopping cart to go with.


    Quote Originally Posted by alex-developer View Post
    the magento required the VPS or dedicated server as the software very hungry for resources and on shared hosting will be very slow!
    This is not true at all. I have seen clients where their previous VPS crashes often when running Magento but their store works flawlessly after moving to a high-end shared hosting platform.
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  19. #19
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    This is not true at all. I have seen clients where their previous VPS crashes often when running Magento but their store works flawlessly after moving to a high-end shared hosting platform.
    it's not true (see below why?), how you can crash dedicated server or VPS and not shared hosting? as VPS have more resources than super premium ultimate what ever shared hosting account.

    Magento System Requirements

    PHP Compatibility:

    * 5.2
    * Required extensions:
    o PDO_MySQL
    o simplexml
    o mcrypt
    o hash
    o GD
    o DOM
    o iconv
    o SOAP (if Webservices API is to be used)
    * Safe_mode off
    * Memory_limit no less than 256Mb (preferably 512)
    http://www.magentocommerce.com/system-requirements
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex-developer View Post
    it's not true (see below why?), how you can crash dedicated server or VPS and not shared hosting? as VPS have more resources than super premium ultimate what ever shared hosting account.


    http://www.magentocommerce.com/system-requirements
    Actually based on experience a memory_limit of 64M is enough to run Magento properly (preferable 128M).

    A VPS will only have access to what is allocated to it, eg. 512MB of RAM but a shared hosting account can have access to 10x or 20x the amount of RAM of a VPS. No doubt a high end VPS may be able to run Magento smoothly but the lower end VPS are just not suitable for this purpose.
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  21. #21
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    a shared hosting account can have access to 10x or 20x the amount of RAM of a VPS
    and of course more users like up-to 1000 accounts per server (stats from few USA companies)

    but the lower end VPS are just not suitable for this purpose.
    I am not taking about 64 or 128MB Ram, at least 512MB will run smoothly anything. Some people here running the Windows and other applications at the same time on computer with 512MB of RAM - the conclusion is the Magento is using too much resources (like RAM).
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by alex-developer View Post
    and of course more users like up-to 1000 accounts per server (stats from few USA companies)
    Well if you (or any clients) are looking for a high-performance solutions, you really shouldn't be looking for hosting companies with such insane amount of accounts per server.


    Quote Originally Posted by alex-developer View Post
    I am not taking about 64 or 128MB Ram, at least 512MB will run smoothly anything. Some people here running the Windows and other applications at the same time on computer with 512MB of RAM - the conclusion is the Magento is using too much resources.
    Well if you look into the framework that is powering Magento and the features that it provides, you will see why Magento is more resource intensive than your average shopping cart. In my opinion, if a client cannot afford to go with Magento (due to the slight increase in hosting and development cost), they should consider something simple like PrestaShop instead.
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    Actually based on experience a memory_limit of 64M is enough to run Magento properly (preferable 128M).
    Just checked this page:

    http://www.magentocommerce.com/system-requirements

    --
    Memory_limit no less than 256Mb (preferably 512)
    --

    One PHP process requires 256-512 MB at least. Wow!
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avactis View Post
    Just checked this page:

    http://www.magentocommerce.com/system-requirements

    --
    Memory_limit no less than 256Mb (preferably 512)
    --

    One PHP process requires 256-512 MB at least. Wow!
    Well based on experiences you will not need that much memory_limit for the Community Edition if you are running a small to medium store. You will only need it if you run a large store or the Enterprise Edition.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    Well based on experiences you will not need that much memory_limit for the Community Edition if you are running a small to medium store. You will only need it if you run a large store or the Enterprise Edition.
    As far I know the Enterprise Edition is commercially licensed and it could be hosted only on Magento servers.
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  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avactis View Post
    As far I know the Enterprise Edition is commercially licensed and it could be hosted only on Magento servers.
    Actually you can host the Enterprise Edition outside of Magento servers as well. We have done a multi-server load-balanced setup with SSD drives for a client just to run their large Enterprise Edition store.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    Actually you can host the Enterprise Edition outside of Magento servers as well. We have done a multi-server load-balanced setup with SSD drives for a client just to run their large Enterprise Edition store.
    Are you saying you're not a Magento partner but you are still able to host the Enterprise version? I was under the impression it required being a partner.
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  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Grumpy View Post
    Are you saying you're not a Magento partner but you are still able to host the Enterprise version? I was under the impression it required being a partner.
    Well a client came forward to request for only the hardwares to run the Enterprise Edition and I believe he obtained the Enterprise Edition directly from Varien.
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  29. #29
    magento is a memory hog but if you have it configured correctly it shouldnt be too slow... you just have to go through the process of optimizing your install.

  30. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by icyshout View Post
    magento is a memory hog but if you have it configured correctly it shouldnt be too slow... you just have to go through the process of optimizing your install.
    Can you show us how you do magento optimization? I want to be fast too

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by f1f12 View Post
    Can you show us how you do magento optimization? I want to be fast too
    Well there are many optimization tips are available online as well as at the Magento forum, but most importantly you will need to have the proper hardware (hosting) to support it, as otherwise it will still end up loading slowly.
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  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by JLHC View Post
    Well there are many optimization tips are available online as well as at the Magento forum, but most importantly you will need to have the proper hardware (hosting) to support it, as otherwise it will still end up loading slowly.
    So special server / hardware is needed for Magento.

    btw, do you plan to use Zend Servers? I think it should speed up the Mageneto a little.
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Avactis View Post
    So special server / hardware is needed for Magento.

    btw, do you plan to use Zend Servers? I think it should speed up the Mageneto a little.
    Well we did tested Zend Servers but due to incompatibilities and many other factors, they are still not ready to be put into production for a shared hosting environment. They may work fine for a single store in a dedicated server though.
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  34. #34
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    what about DSO and an opcode cacher VS using suPHP

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