View Poll Results: Do you think BurstNET handled this appropriately?

Voters
7. You may not vote on this poll
  • Absolutely.

    1 14.29%
  • Yes.

    3 42.86%
  • Not Sure.

    1 14.29%
  • No.

    2 28.57%
  • Definitely Not.

    0 0%
Results 1 to 16 of 16
  1. #1

    * BurstNET/NOCSTER Collections on Money Not Due! Beware!

    First, I was a long term customer that paid Nocster over $2000 until they had network issues in 2005. My server went down for days and so I moved to EV1Servers. Also, I am trying to buy a house to this is particularly annoying.

    After I left in 2005, I came back, or at least tried to, in 2007. This turned out to be the worst mistake I have ever made with hosting. I signed up for their Virtuozzo server for like $250 per month. So after 3 weeks and numerous trouble tickets it still did not work properly. I then asked for the money back from the server and the next month that they had already billed. They refused even though their policy CLEARLY states in section 4.2 called "Acceptance of BurstNET™ Services" which states "Client shall have the right to evaluate the BurstNET™ Services as set forth in Exhibit A for a period of thirty (30) days after initiation of the
    BurstNET™ Services, at the charge, if any, set forth in Exhibit E or elsewhere offered by BurstNET™ and confirmed in the confirmation letter. If Client determines that any BurstNET™
    Services do not reasonably satisfy the standards provided herein, then Client shall promptly notify BurstNET™ of such deficiency. BurstNET™ shall use commercially reasonable
    efforts to cure such deficiency . In the event BurstNET™ is unable to cure such deficiency, Client's sole and exclusive remedy shall be the refund of the amounts paid by Client under
    the Agreement, and the right to terminate this Agreement."

    So I charged them back. Somehow we both won as I got the money back and they said they did too. This is where it gets evil! They then charged me two $35 chargeback fees for a total of $70. Now with late fees and stuff it is $130.

    So not only will they completely rip off a long time customer and not honor the agreement, but then they will try to ruin your life by putting the false charges on your credit report.

    BEWARE AND STAY AWAY FROM BURSTNET/NOCSTER!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Manila
    Posts
    301
    I am interested to hear Burst's sides.. as there's always 2 sides of the story. I am their customer for more than 6 months now and this never happened to me. They in fact very kind and considerate to me. I even cancelled one of my servers like a few days before the due date and they had no problems with that. Some companies require 30 days cancellation but burst does not! And I like them so much. So far I only have the BEST experience with Burst.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    1,175
    BurstNET will let you cancel the day of the due date and still refund any prepayments. However back in 2007 things 'could' have been different, not sure. But from the sounds of it looks like you did a chargeback on both payments you made to them.

    What was the "deficiency" that BurstNET was not able to fix in regards to your server that made you think you deserved a full refund? I hope it wasn't for management work that you didn't pay for...
    www.DMEHosting.com - DME Hosting LLC | Servers, KVM/OpenVZ VPS's, Email Hosting, Web Hosting

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2000
    Posts
    2,063
    Nah, I won't foolishly side with the OP until I get to hear the other side of story. Who knows what the OP is hiding or mistakenly miss out few details.
    I choose not to use my signature for advertising.

    It doesn't matter how much you claim how important your data is. If it's not backed up, it's not important.

  5. #5
    Without knowing who the customer is (having the history of the issue), I can only speak generally.

    - We do not offer a trial period.

    - We do attempt everything in our power to rectify a complaint. If it is hardware based, component replacement or ultimately a complete rebuild is done. We are not responsible for software limitations.

    - If a valid cancellation was submitted before the start of a new service period, a full refund of the upcoming month's pre-payment would have been issued.

    - Chargebacks are subject to a $35.00 fee per the terms of our agreement. "2.6 Penalties and Extra Fees. Client agrees to pay BurstNET™ US$30.00, per occurrence, for bounced checks. Client agrees to pay BurstNET™ US$35.00,
    per occurrence, for each chargeback issued against a transaction."

    - It is not possible for both parties to win a chargeback. Perhaps the former customer is confusing a refund of the pre-payment with winning a chargeback.

    - Unpaid balances (including chargeback fees) are subject to finance charges. If the account is sent to collections, there is an additional fee.

    - Since the amount in question is less than 1 month's worth of service fees, BurstNET likely won both chargebacks. Otherwise, the current debt would be at least $600.00 ($500.00 for two months of service, plus two $35.00 chargeback fees, plus one $30.00 collection fee, plus late fees).

    - If a collection balance is disputed, we must submit proof of the debt to either our collection agency or the credit bureau who received the complaint to determine the validity of the debt. If we don't prove our case, the item is either removed from collections/a credit report.

    Based on the above, it sounds as though we proved the debt valid to both the credit card company and at least one credit bureau. With more information, however, I will be happy to address the matter more specifically.
    Marne D.

  6. #6
    From a complaint in a different forum, I was able to determine the identity of the complainant and source of the issue. "The server seems to have a problem with the Virtuozzo Bridge where the network connection comes to a halt. BurstNET is working closely with SWSoft support team to correct the Windows Virtuozzo software issue."

    When we ran into the issue with the installation of Virtuozzo, everything in our power was done to rectify the situation. The support department of the software company was working in conjunction with us directly. We then offered 50% off all setup fees.

    This didn't satisfy the customer. We then offered an additional free month of service. While initially agreeing, it was later demanded of us a complete refund or else the customer would issue a chargeback. Ultimately, two chargebacks were initiated - both of which we won. Despite this, we still honored our promise and refunded $248.59 worth of payments.

    As per the terms of our contact, chargebacks are subject to a $35.00 fee per incident. When the account was later sent to collections, and additional $30.00 collection surcharge and late fees were added. Though the customer disputed the debt, it was again found to be valid by the bureaus.

    In this situation the customer could not be satisfied despite our best efforts.
    Marne D.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Texas
    Posts
    228
    I wouldn't worry to much about this 1 poster he seems to be either lieing or not as smart he already has 3 topics for providers which don't seem to fit the time line of purchases.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Posts
    1,277
    Doesn't seem like BurstNet does much to protect their clients with any type of privacy policy. Credit Bureaus have nothing to do with deciding who is liable for debt, they are only there to list information, information that can be challenged at anytime.

    When we ordered from BurstNet awhile back after our services not being honored as agreed from BurstNet I believe we had to do a PayPal dispute after which BurstNet did refund us, even though PayPal would of done nothing had they of opted not to refund.

    temperne, im not a lawyer but I think charging fees for debt collection is illegal in some, if not all states depending on the circumstance.
    James Paul Woods
    Operations Manager
    HostKitty Internet Services

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by temperne View Post
    So after 3 weeks and numerous trouble tickets it still did not work properly. I then asked for the money back from the server and the next month that they had already billed.

    their policy CLEARLY states in section 4.2 called "Acceptance of BurstNET™ Services" which states "If Client determines that any BurstNET™ Services do not reasonably satisfy the standards provided herein, then Client shall promptly notify BurstNET™ of such deficiency. BurstNET™ shall use commercially reasonable
    efforts to cure such deficiency. In the event BurstNET™ is unable to cure such deficiency, Client's sole and exclusive remedy shall be the refund of the amounts paid by Client under
    the Agreement, and the right to terminate this Agreement."
    1) The issue was with the software provided by a vendor of theirs, not any product they were directly providing. They took all commercially reasonable efforts by bringing this up with this vendor and attempting to resolve the issue through those means. From what I can tell, you have not demonstrated that they did not take "commercially reasonable efforts."

    2) Nowhere in that policy does it allow chargebacks or absolve you of the chargeback fees you agreed to.

    There are proper methods for resolving these issues. You may have followed these methods and simply left them out of this, but based on what you said that wasn't the case.

    Note: I am not saying they behaved properly, as I don't have enough information to determine that. I am simply saying I disagree that the terms of service supports your actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by woods01 View Post
    temperne, im not a lawyer but I think charging fees for debt collection is illegal in some, if not all states depending on the circumstance.
    No, charging finance charges for past due amounts is not illegal anywhere and I am also not aware of any state where it is illegal to pass on additional costs agreed to in a contract/terms of service.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation
    Now Open in New Jersey! - Contact us for New Jersey colocation or dedicated servers

  10. #10
    The second post from burst clearly identifies the problem as the "virtual bridge". This is not an element of the service that is under the control of the customer.

    As burst could not deliver, and resisted giving a refund to the point that the customer felt he had no choice but to issue a chargeback, a chargeback fee is not justified.

    Half off setup fees, or an additional month of service mean nothing if the server cannot function unimpaired. A customer could be very justified in thinking that these were not comparable to a refund for services not delivered, but rather, a diversionary tactic.
    edgedirector.com
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    6,889
    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    The second post from burst clearly identifies the problem as the "virtual bridge". This is not an element of the service that is under the control of the customer.
    Yes, that may be true, though it is a software issue that is also not under the full control of BurstNet either. In addition, that says nothing of whether or not Burst took, "commercially reasonable efforts."

    I am simply going by the words of the terms, not necessarily with what I feel is ethically correct.

    Note: I am not familiar with Virtuozzo for Windows, as we don't use/offer it, but is a "virtual bridge" a service required for general use of the product? If it is, then it is clear service was not rendered. If it is an additional software service, one not specifically mentioned as a provided service with the order, then that is another story.
    Karl Zimmerman - Steadfast: Managed Dedicated Servers and Premium Colocation
    karl @ steadfast.net - Sales/Support: 312-602-2689
    Cloud Hosting, Managed Dedicated Servers, Chicago Colocation, and New Jersey Colocation
    Now Open in New Jersey! - Contact us for New Jersey colocation or dedicated servers

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    As burst could not deliver, and resisted giving a refund to the point that the customer felt he had no choice but to issue a chargeback, a chargeback fee is not justified.

    Half off setup fees, or an additional month of service mean nothing if the server cannot function unimpaired. A customer could be very justified in thinking that these were not comparable to a refund for services not delivered, but rather, a diversionary tactic.
    With all due respect, you're making assumptions that aren't accurate. Once the software was installed, we delivered a fully functional server as per the specs of the customer's order. 50% off setup fees would have been reasonable for a delayed (not impaired) system.

    At no time did we resist a refund. The customer could have canceled for a full refund. But he didn't. Instead, the server was used for over a month before initiating chargebacks. The server was in use without instance for a total of a month and 10 days. Upon notification of the payment disputes, the customer was told we would no longer provide him with service. Only then was a cancellation submitted.
    Marne D.

  13. #13

    Exclamation

    Well, I do not have all the documentation as it has been several years, however, I will be getting copies of all documentation issued to and from the bank for the dispute. I will also post all those pages on my server and post a link or offer it as a PM proof. Basically, to anyone whom asks.

    Section 4.2 of your contract does indeed resolve me from expenses should you not be able to satisfy your end of the deal. Or at least it is the same contract that you used to justify the $35 chargeback fee. Also that is a general contractual obligation, to satisfy your end. The server was sold and marketed as a Virtuozzo server so it was your obligation to not issue charge until operational. (Visas rules under services.) I was willing to allow you time to fix the problem but was not willing to pay for that time. The three weeks you talk of where the three weeks spent sending tickets back and forth from your personnel. Each time you claimed it worked. It did not. The free month was bogus as I had just paid for a month and did not cover the 15 day early charge, per your contact, you were going to keep that. It was all stall tactics. I demanded that you issue a refund on all future monthly payments and backdate the monthly expense until you resolved the issue. You refused. You refused to issue refund on the future payment taken 15 days in advance. I was not going to cancel until then. You also removed access to my billing and ticket account. At this time you had broken every obligation reasonable assumed in a valid contact so I issued a refund. You won based on a time delay caused by the bank as I used my eTrade brokerage account ATM card to pay you and the brokerage department was actually unable to meet the visa requirements. Based on the merits of the case I presented to them THEY paid all $500 to avoid liability to me.

    Finally, and most important, chargeback fees are SPECIFICALLY forbidden by the Visa/Mastercard Merchant's Master Agreement. Well actually, it says that making agreements restricting or removing the chargeback is forbidden. A $35 fee is restrictive.

    Also, how does it make sense for me to chargeback what was offered? That should clearly be known as erroneous. Why would I charge back another charge if they offered it back?

    Questions to ask:

    Did the server work as sold/prescribed?

    If windows did not work on your hardware because of a driver issue, would the customer then have to pay while you worked with Microsoft/OEM to correct it?

    Was it fixed in 3 weeks? How about the 1 month 1 week?

    Can I have access to my billing info/tickets?

    Does the contract say "In the event BurstNET™ is unable to cure such deficiency, Client's sole and exclusive remedy shall be the refund of the amounts paid by Client under the Agreement, and the right to terminate this Agreement", and if so doesn't that mean if it doesn't work I get my money back? Isn't NOT WORKING as MARKETED a deficiency?

    Credit Bureaus only require an invoice they do NOT look at it. In fact, burstnet uses: Direct Debt Collections or Old Debt they do nothing to protect me. They even have a legal disclaimer that you will soon learn about the hard way.

    However, they will fold on you like a cheap suit tomorrow when I call my lawyer and pay for his work. I have now been issued a requirement by my underwriter about this and that means provable damages as I cannot close until this is resolved. So I hope your end is as fair and equitable as you say because I have a lot of cash to close and it may now be lawyer fees.

    Think about it.. if I were not getting completely ripped off and bent over would I not just pay $130 to close? Is the $130 more or less weird then the commitment fee or something in closing? You wronged me and that I will NOT pay for. They completely ripped me off. I had worked with them for years and tried to come back. This was all wrong.

    For the record I have paid for at least 1 server per month since 2002 meaning that I have paid about $10,000 in server fees and expenses. I can offer a lot of references I have never missed a payment or violated TOS. I am a good paying fair customer. I would have waited months for them to fix the server but I would have never allowed a charge more than my original signup fee and first month of service. As soon as that became unagreeable to them, I wanted all my money back. When that was unagreeable then I went to Visa. Now we will go higher.

    Have used:

    Liquidweb (left erased my websites on accident)
    Burstnet/Nocster (read above - real bad so left)
    Ev1Servers (Loved this service for EVER! until they died.)
    ThePlanet (Did not like the bureaucratic nature and high prices.)
    Superb (Love them, still with them, no issues either side!)
    Limestone Networks (Love them, the business I planned for thier network fell apart!)

  14. #14
    This issue has been resolved by BurstNET in appreciation for a previous long term customer to repair issues caused by complex contractual dispute. BurstNET felt that they acted with no wrong doing but felt that the best way to rectify a difficult situation was just to waive the expenses and remove the information from my credit.

    They realize that contracts are confusing and while they understand my position they feel no warranty was ever granted, and that the 3rd party software vendor was at fault. I think better communication would have solved the issue a long time ago. Luckily, this is what WHT is for. Ultimately, BurstNET resolved this issue to my satisfaction, so no hard feelings, and we may do business again in the future.

    I really think that the stress of the denial of service attacks negitively effected them. I do remember having good service before the attacks and the only issue I ever encountered was this issue. Regardless, I cannot say how glad I am it is resolved.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    242
    Host cant put stuff against your credit can they ? =)

  16. #16
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    NJ, USA
    Posts
    6,456
    Quote Originally Posted by hostingdispatch View Post
    Host cant put stuff against your credit can they ? =)
    Sure they can.

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