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  1. #1
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    Colocation - Europe - NL or DE

    Does anyone have any good recommendations for colocation in Europe, preferably NL or DE based?

    Basic requirement:
    - 1-5U initially, option to expand into half and full rack over time.
    - Reasonably priced bandwidth.
    - Decent remote hands when needed.

    A sensible AUP would also be a requirement. I prefer a host to give you an opportunity to address any issues (such as a compromised system, copyright protected content, or similar) *before* they actually pull the plug. From what I have seen, some hosts will disable your switch port(s) almost the moment they receive a complaint - which is not acceptable.

    I would love other alternatives than LeaseWeb, just to have said that.

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    Are there really that few members here using NL/DE data centers, other than LeaseWeb?

    Even if they do not match all my criterias, please do mention them and I can at least contact them for more information and see if I can work something out - or come to an acceptable compromise.

  3. #3
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    I am sure netrouting.eu will take care of you.

  4. #4
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    Well there are a lot of possibilities, providers and datacenters who can do the job for you.

    10u (location: Amsterdam) costs about 499/month and you have only 1000GB traffic. There are a view posibilites to buy the server yourselve, and get them installed by the provider only it is not very cheap operation to do.

  5. #5
    Any idea on how much power you'd require?


  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetDistrict View Post
    10u (location: Amsterdam) costs about 499/month and you have only 1000GB traffic.
    That would be a extremely expensive provider or you get a lot of power with that 10U.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
    Unbeatable dedicated bandwidth deals for Dedicated servers ! Support response time <15 minutes 24/7

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NetDistrict View Post
    Well there are a lot of possibilities, providers and datacenters who can do the job for you.
    Can you perhaps be more concrete and mention a few good candidates you have experience with, please?

    Quote Originally Posted by NetDistrict View Post
    There are a view posibilites to buy the server yourselve, and get them installed by the provider only it is not very cheap operation to do.
    That would indeed be the idea of colocation. Whether it is 'cheap' or not is always relative to how far ahead you are thinking and your budget to start off with. When it comes to quality hardware, compared to paying someone else to rent it out as dedicated servers at profit, it is obviously a much cheaper option to invest yourself and colocate - if you are planning long term, and buy smart.

    Quote Originally Posted by DediShack View Post
    Any idea on how much power you'd require?
    Good question. Most likely somewhere between 0.5 to 1 amp (220-240V) per unit. More towards the 1amp mark, with 2 x Xeon L5520. A data center with good power availability and/or good power pricing would be much more preferable than the other way around - in order to get more bang for the buck. Power is one of the more limiting factors these days.. sadly..

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoel View Post
    Does anyone have any good recommendations for colocation in Europe, preferably NL or DE based?

    I would love other alternatives than LeaseWeb, just to have said that.

    Thanks in advance!
    We've been extremely happy with KPNQwest Italia. I know you're asking primarily about DE and NL, but they have a strong network, nice techs to deal with and a very good infrastructure in the whole.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the tip, briantel, but I'm ideally looking for something a little further north to have a more centralized location. DE (e.g. Frankfurt) and NL (e.g. Amsterdam) are very good locations in relation to what's considered the 'core' of the European internet - and better priced compared to for an example London, UK.

  10. #10
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    To give you an indication of pricing you should aim for in NL/DE

    1U ~ 10 euro/mo
    1A power ~ 30 euro/mo
    1 mbit 95% on low CDR ~ 6 euro / mbit

    Remote hands is expensive, since both NL and DE command high wages for overtime/nightshift/weekendshift. Expect anywhere between 50 - 150 euro / hour.

    Leaseweb is pretty good in NL, definately the largest NL provider. But there are many others with a decent size, just look around.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 08-24-2009 at 12:42 PM.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
    Unbeatable dedicated bandwidth deals for Dedicated servers ! Support response time <15 minutes 24/7

  11. #11
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    Thanks for your input.

    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Remote hands is expensive, since both NL and DE command high wages for overtime/nightshift/weekendshift. Expect anywhere between 50 - 150 euro / hour.
    Yeah, I have noticed this as well - but some do offer it free of charge as long as it's minor/reasonable tasks within their working hours, and not too frequent - which is the way it should be if you ask me. Others use it as a clear strategy in their pricing model to offer lower pricing on space/bandwidth, but recover the lost profit in high remote hands fees and other services. I use units with remote management / KVMoIP capabilities, so luckily the remote hands requirement will be limited to the rare cases this will not be sufficient - and installation of new equipment, or quick replacement of defective components once in a blue moon.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shoel View Post
    Yeah, I have noticed this as well - but some do offer it free of charge as long as it's minor/reasonable tasks within their working hours, and not too frequent - which is the way it should be if you ask me.
    Usually this are just very minor tasks, like a reboot. But then the provider usually gets some free remote hands from the datacenter itself. This also comes back in the month to month fees they charge to their customers.

    Most, if not all large NL providers with employees onsite do have to charge for remote hands.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
    Unbeatable dedicated bandwidth deals for Dedicated servers ! Support response time <15 minutes 24/7

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Most, if not all large NL providers with employees onsite do have to charge for remote hands.
    Not true. Inspite of having very few servers with WorldStream and just the other day I required some very custom onsite configuration, both Lennert and Dirk where very co-operative and did it at no additional cost at all.

    I'd strongly recommend them as an alternative to EvoSwitch.

    However, you can colocate with any host who has a cage/suite at EvoSwitch. Since EvoSwitch is a carrier neutral DC you could simply get colo space and power from them but get IP space/bandwidth from another provider who has more sane AUP

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganesh-rao View Post
    Not true. Inspite of having very few servers with WorldStream and just the other day I required some very custom onsite configuration, both Lennert and Dirk where very co-operative and did it at no additional cost at all.
    Thats why i refered to large providers with empolyees, that usually have to charge for remote hands. Smaller firms can indeed afford to do it for free, untill they have reached a certain volume of clients.

    Wages are not low in the Netherlands, especially if you have to have a 24x7 staff onsite. Large providers do have to use employees for this, while in the case of smaller providers the owners can do it themself.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 09-09-2009 at 12:41 PM.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
    Unbeatable dedicated bandwidth deals for Dedicated servers ! Support response time <15 minutes 24/7

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by swiftnoc View Post
    Thats why i refered to large providers with empolyees, that usually have to charge for remote hands. Smaller firms can indeed afford to do it for free, untill they have reached a certain volume of clients.

    Wages are not low in the Netherlands, especially if you have to have a 24x7 staff onsite. Large providers do have to use employees for this, while in the case of smaller providers the owners can do it themself.
    I'm sure WS qualifies to be a 'large provider', atleast compared to your charges/company size?

    I haven't asked them officially, but I'll assume 300~ odd servers. Thats simply a wild guess, could easily be more.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ganesh-rao View Post
    I haven't asked them officially, but I'll assume 300~ odd servers. Thats simply a wild guess, could easily be more.
    I do believe they have more servers then 300. But the amount of servers does not command the size of a company. Usually there are two factors: the amount of FTE and the size of the Turnover/profit.

    In the Netherlands, there is a certain moment (turn over - profit), where you benefit from substantial tax benefits if you become or are a limited liability company. Also when you start you have a lot of FTE you will want to change the company into a limited liability company as well.

    This is the main reason why large dedicated server and colocation companies (Grafix, Leaseweb, i3d and also Swiftway) are a limited liability company in the Netherlands.

    In the end, it does not matter. But if you pay Employees in a 24/7 shift and want to keep basic services prices low, you must charge for the hands on work. Remote Reboot units and some KVM work can automate a lot ofcourse, but command their own capital investments.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 09-13-2009 at 03:26 AM.
    Swiftway.net Your Business deserves our Quality - Experts on Hand since 2005. Europe & US locations, we operate our own network AS35017
    Unbeatable dedicated bandwidth deals for Dedicated servers ! Support response time <15 minutes 24/7

  17. #17
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    Don't know how your budget is.. But try half rack or something at telecity or telehouse. They would provide you with the space and will not kick you out for anything.
    As far as the bandwidth part is concerned, there are always MANY ISPs established in telecity facilities... so you can try a global provider (who wouldn't probably care what you host). And maybe a few backup providers.

  18. #18
    If you need colo in PT (Portugal) with kvm i can help you (mp me for details).
    In DE try http://www.hetzner.de/en/hosting/pro...on/uebersicht/

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