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  1. #1

    Upgrade to Raid 10, or serve content from a CDN?

    I'm hosting a very simple HTML page, no images etc, just a few lines of text and an email box.

    I'm going to be spending a lot of money on advertising (86k next week) to this page and would like to make sure it is as fast as possible.

    I currently have two servers with LiquidWeb, One runs the database side and one serves the static content.

    Quantity: 1
    Item: Webmaster Core2QUADSpecial
    Processor: Intel Q9400 QUAD CORE
    Memory: 8GB DDR2 SDRAM
    Hd1: Dual 73GB SCSI / Hardware Raid 1
    Hd2: 500GB 7200RPM SATA / 8MB Cache
    RemoteBackup: No Remote Backup Needed
    OS: Linux - CentOS 5
    (+64 Bit)
    ControlPanel: Plesk 8 Unlimited for Linux
    (+PowerPack)
    SetupFee: $0 Setup Fee

    Monthly Recurring Charges: $399
    Total First Month Charges: $399


    Quantity: 1
    Item: Specials HarpertownSpecial
    Processor: Dual Xeon E5405 <b>Quad Core</b> (Harpertown)
    Memory: 8GB DDR2 PC5300
    Hd1: Dual 73GB SCSI / Hardware Raid 1
    Hd2: 160GB 7200RPM SATA / 8MB Cache
    RemoteBackup: No Remote Backup Needed
    OS: Linux - CentOS 5
    (+64 Bit)
    ControlPanel: No Control Panel
    (+Core Managed)
    Bandwidth: 4800GB Monthly Transfer (2400 in + 2400 out)
    SetupFee: $0 Setup Fee
    Before starting the campaign, I started to think I should upgrade the drives to a SAS SCSI Raid 10, so it serves the page faster. Or even a Solid State Raid 10, if that would make a big difference.

    Is this worth it? I won't post the link, but the page is literally a few lines of text, an HTML table, and an opt-in form.

    (but making it microseconds faster, could make a difference over the months as we spend up to a million in advertising).

    Or....

    Is it possible to serve the HTML content from Amazon Cloudfront etc? and would that be faster since it is hosted on servers near the visitor?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Denver, CO
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    3,301
    Those servers should be able to essentially saturate 100Mbps port if they are just serving HTML pages. However, you will need to optimize your web server for high load. You might also run into issues processing the opt-in form, depending on server load. Your best bet is to do some load testing on your existing setup to see how it functions.

    CDN will not help you since you are not going to have any media that the CDN could actually distribute you for you.
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  3. #3
    Yeah a CDN can only serve static files, it can't accept http POST from your form and such.

    Do as Jay said and work on your LiquidWeb servers.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    141
    You should consider LiteSpeed for this. Should give you good performance with small files (which yours seems to be).
    I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyarr View Post
    You should consider LiteSpeed for this. Should give you good performance with small files (which yours seems to be).
    Hmm, what's Litespeed. This... litespeedtech.com?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Croatia
    Posts
    141
    Sorry, forgot to linkify. The link you posted is correct. It's an alternative to Apache. Google some benchmarks and I think you'll find it worth your time.
    I am a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dannyarr View Post
    Sorry, forgot to linkify. The link you posted is correct. It's an alternative to Apache. Google some benchmarks and I think you'll find it worth your time.
    Thanks for the suggestion. Would have been good but LiquidWeb don't support it, so the burden would fall onto me.

    I'm thinking of upgrading to:

    Host1 (Database Server)

    SAS SCSI Raid 10

    Host2 (Static Content)

    SSD Raid 5

    What do you think?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by WallstreetWolf View Post
    I'm thinking of upgrading to:

    Host1 (Database Server)

    SAS SCSI Raid 10

    Host2 (Static Content)

    SSD Raid 5

    What do you think?
    Bump, about to pull the trigger on this, and an upgrade to a 1gbps port.

  9. #9
    First of all, you've only talked about hardware specs, but not what you will be serving really, and it seems like you're going a bit over-the-top with all of this, like SSDs in RAID-5. If it's truly just a simple HTML page, you won't need all that, and you will be fine even with one server.

    Assuming you want to grow and will deploy a website on this system later on, SAS drives will be fast, without costing an arm and a leg, like the Intel SLC SSDs, which are the only proper SSDs you would want to purchase.

    Do not model yourself around what a specific host can support, as that is always a bad idea, and will most likely restrict your application. Just because someone doesn't support Litespeed, it doesn't mean you shouldn't find someone else that can support it, or bring in outside support for it. I would not spend money on LiteSpeed, as it is not that awesome as some praise it; I would instead go for nginx + fastcgi, which is blazing fast, as uses a really small amount of resources, not to mention that it is open source and free.
    478east
    High Bandwidth Servers
    Custom Hosting Solutions

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by cristibighea View Post
    First of all, you've only talked about hardware specs, but not what you will be serving really, and it seems like you're going a bit over-the-top with all of this, like SSDs in RAID-5. If it's truly just a simple HTML page, you won't need all that, and you will be fine even with one server.

    Assuming you want to grow and will deploy a website on this system later on, SAS drives will be fast, without costing an arm and a leg, like the Intel SLC SSDs, which are the only proper SSDs you would want to purchase.

    Do not model yourself around what a specific host can support, as that is always a bad idea, and will most likely restrict your application. Just because someone doesn't support Litespeed, it doesn't mean you shouldn't find someone else that can support it, or bring in outside support for it. I would not spend money on LiteSpeed, as it is not that awesome as some praise it; I would instead go for nginx + fastcgi, which is blazing fast, as uses a really small amount of resources, not to mention that it is open source and free.
    The page I am serving is... LeakedStocks.com

    The reason I am open for upgrading to SSD's in Raid 5, and Raid 10 etc... is because I will be over the course of the next few months spending up to a million bucks on visitors to that site.

    The page loading a fraction faster, could mean thousands of extra leads... which is worth thousands more to me.

    Not to mention Raid 10 would make the data more safe in case of hard drive failure.

  11. #11
    End users can't notice a few tens of milliseconds easily. I understand that you have money to burn, but why waste money when you don't have to?

    Have you thought about redundancy, in case your main server goes down? You may want to have some high availability setup done, as when your webserver goes down, those SSD drives won't matter .
    478east
    High Bandwidth Servers
    Custom Hosting Solutions

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by cristibighea View Post
    Have you thought about redundancy, in case your main server goes down? You may want to have some high availability setup done, as when your webserver goes down, those SSD drives won't matter .
    Haha, I did think about this, yeh.

    Could you outline a brief plan for this? Does it involve getting another server with a different host and having some kind of "Failover".

    (I'm clueless).

  13. #13
    That's pretty much how it's done. Ideally you would use some DNS provider which has anycast as well as support for failover records, so they will scan your IPs every minute or so, and when they determine that a server is down, they will modify the A records in order to point the user to the server which is alive, and re-add the main IP back when the server is back online.

    If you want to go even further, you can inspect options such as DoS protection on the network level, which may cost you extra, but if you believe you may be prone to attacks, you may want to get this as well.

    The providers you choose would ideally have these options available, as well as a potent network, and at least n+1 redundancy in their datacenter, not to mention skilled personnel if they are also the ones managing your server.
    478east
    High Bandwidth Servers
    Custom Hosting Solutions

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by cristibighea View Post
    That's pretty much how it's done. Ideally you would use some DNS provider which has anycast as well as support for failover records, so they will scan your IPs every minute or so, and when they determine that a server is down, they will modify the A records in order to point the user to the server which is alive, and re-add the main IP back when the server is back online.

    If you want to go even further, you can inspect options such as DoS protection on the network level, which may cost you extra, but if you believe you may be prone to attacks, you may want to get this as well.

    The providers you choose would ideally have these options available, as well as a potent network, and at least n+1 redundancy in their datacenter, not to mention skilled personnel if they are also the ones managing your server.
    Is this the kind of thing I could talk to LiquidWeb about, and they could help setup?

    Or would I need to delve into this myself/hire someone?

  15. #15
    You can probably do it on your own, though you would need to use someone like Dnsmadeeasy.com and set it up from their control panel, though if you are going to receive as many visits as you estimate you may need to purchase additional dns queries.

    It's not hard if you have some know-how and they have some tutorials, but if you need any help setting it up in their control panel, drop me a PM and I'll help you out, for free of course .

    Just looked at the site a bit more, and assuming you are sending e-mails: do you have reverse DNS setup? SPF records? DKIM? Domain Keys? Because when you are sending too many e-mails(over smtp, since through php would be a bad idea) you are bound to get thrown in the spam/junk mail directory.
    478east
    High Bandwidth Servers
    Custom Hosting Solutions

  16. #16
    Join Date
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Suds View Post
    CDN will not help you since you are not going to have any media that the CDN could actually distribute you for you.
    For what he is doing the initial page on a CDN would be beneficial because the vast majority of leads will never leave this page to in turn fill out his form (to require any work from his system). So I would disagree, a CDN would be a good idea and also very cheap for the static HTML so getting the best of both, operating the page that the vast majority of people will see for next to nothing and also getting the benefits of the faster delivery times.

    Finally WallstreetWolf, you asked about this 2 weeks ago on these boards and the answers are pretty much the same. Your host/whoever is operating the systems is the one who should be answering what specs you require. If you have not tested what you can operate before hand for the database part explicitly then you have nobody to blame but yourself when it crashes and burns.
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  17. #17
    Thanks for replys ^. I'm looking into my options.

    P.S. Could an admin remove the URL from my post above, for SEO reasons.

    Thanks

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Scott.Mc View Post
    For what he is doing the initial page on a CDN would be beneficial because the vast majority of leads will never leave this page to in turn fill out his form (to require any work from his system). So I would disagree, a CDN would be a good idea and also very cheap for the static HTML so getting the best of both, operating the page that the vast majority of people will see for next to nothing and also getting the benefits of the faster delivery times.

    Finally WallstreetWolf, you asked about this 2 weeks ago on these boards and the answers are pretty much the same. Your host/whoever is operating the systems is the one who should be answering what specs you require. If you have not tested what you can operate before hand for the database part explicitly then you have nobody to blame but yourself when it crashes and burns.
    What CDN would you recommend?

    The database part is small, that opt-in form does not connect to my database, but my email providers.

    The database is used after that, when I ask for their physical address. These will be very few compared.

  19. #19
    CDN is definitely the way to go, you can store that page and anything else static on it, and save your resources for the database, plus with the CDN you are better prepared, should you have a large spike in traffic.

    It also give you redundancy for those elements you host there, should a CDN POP suddenly go offline, for any reason, the others serve the content still.
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