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  1. #1
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    Verdict Networks Outsourcing Support - Worst Out There!

    I made this mistake yet again. Well, atleast this time I was on the verge of it. I only agreed to outsource to Verdict Networks because they were from Australia. Not Asians. I think that is a good reason to go, because my past experience from a US based Company (touchsupport) was very positive.

    Pre-sales was itself quite poor from any standard. I tried to bargain a little. Offered higher commitments with lower recurring fees; he simply didn't seem to understand any of it and got more confused as we went further (he'll probably reply back saying I spoke crap, anyway...). We then agreed to simply follow whatever was there on their website (1.75 USD/ticket - 50 tickets commit; 87.50 USD paid). But their site has since changed with new pricing (within the last 3 days).

    Now moving on to the service setup. I asked him to create dedicated staff accounts for each of the staff member he assigned to my helpdesk/company. I wanted this particularly because I'll be able to track faults and performance of each staff more closely (Kayako eSupport reports). He initially misunderstood this for dedicated technicians (don't know how that made any sense), but I had it corrected and explained to him. His reply to it was...
    Quote Originally Posted by 12:05:13 PM Joshua :: Verdict Networks Pty Ltd
    Why woul you check all the tickets ?
    A day later, I agreed and went ahead in-spite of lacking something so important -- he refused to budge!
    .
    .
    .
    Next came the help desk setup process. I setup it the way he asked me to. One account for all his staff members. Email forwards to their common address, etc, etc. Trial tickets were opened to test new ticket notifications. I got the notification and so did my other full time employee but they didn't. Entire day went by, nothing happened. Next day he confirmed that they were receiving the emails by posting portion of the email server log on the IM. Upon asking why it wasn't still resolved, he says that their website is not hosted on a dedicated server. It is on a shared hosting and the technicians of that Company are looking at the issue. I'm now shocked.
    .
    .
    .
    Multiple trial tickets were opened on my help desk. All of them traced back to an Indian IP address. I asked him to come clean if they were further outsourcing to an Indian company and he plain outright denied it... I'll take his word for that. But his response was that their website's hosting Company's technicians were testing things out and hence opened those tickets -- may be this Company outsourced to an Indian tech-support company. I was shocked before, but now I'm paralyzed.
    .
    .
    .
    I could no longer be thrown around like that. My customer's data is at stake and this clown is sharing such details he signed an NDA for with his hosting Company. Professional, huh?

    Oh wait! Why is there a hosting company? They are on a shared hosting platform. Imagine if that server was pwn'd due to an exploit from some other website hosted on that server. Their account is compromised, hence my help desk details are compromised. Bottom line, my customer's details are compromised. I asked him about this and this was his response.
    Joshua: Does not matter if we have a $1 hosting account or $100000000
    Joshua: Does not matter
    Ganesh Rao: Does matter if you are sharing that server with other clients of your provider.
    Ganesh Rao: I'm not saying pricing is the problem
    Joshua: Do you know were we store our clients information ?
    Ganesh Rao: Dont tell me you store it on your HDD cause I'll laugh too hard
    Joshua: But do you know where we store information ?
    Joshua: Yes or No
    Ganesh Rao: Nope
    Ganesh Rao: Where may I ask?
    Joshua: None of your business.
    Ganesh Rao: Yes, it is my business because your indirectly damaging my Company's security.
    Joshua: Can you give me a link or location to that information?
    Ganesh: Sure, I can give that info if I have the entire .sql database if I root your server using someone else's account (other clients being hosted).
    I'm not even going to say what went wrong. Your welcome to laugh along with me. I'm guessing that my 87.50 USD deposit went in the pooper. But its definitely worth losing in lieu to what I could have lost if I did take their service.

    The chat log has been edited to make sense.
    Last edited by InfiniteTech; 08-20-2009 at 12:06 PM.
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  2. #2
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    Hi, I'm not going to post any further information to this thread, I'm simply going to provide as much information using the report button... It will be up to the moderator to consider this thread as a valid complaint or a hotheaded complaint.

    - Joshua
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    Hi, I'm not going to post any further information to this thread, I'm simply going to provide as much information using the report button... It will be up to the moderator to consider this thread as a valid complaint or a hotheaded complaint.

    - Joshua
    Please do.

    I've been more jovial than usual. Doubt it would count upto a 'hotheaded' complaint.

    Edit 1: Either way, it shouldn't matter if it was a 'hotheaded' complaint or not. Its a complaint nevertheless and a failure on your part.

    Edit 2: If anyone is interested at all. I have still not canceled service with them nor have they notified me of any such notice; so I have logs of all the tickets created, emails sent, IMs received, etc.
    Last edited by InfiniteTech; 08-20-2009 at 12:32 PM.
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  4. #4
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    Hello WHT - Responding to Complaint #1

    Pre-sales was itself quite poor from any standard. I tried to bargain a little. Offered higher commitments with lower recurring fees;
    As you can see our prices are very low, It would not be an responsible for us to go any lower than our prices.

    But their site has since changed with new pricing (within the last 3 days).
    I would like to annouce this has been on the cards the new pricing, It was released with our brand new web design which was released yesterday. Client has not even been with us for 3 days.
    Now moving on to the service setup. I asked him to create dedicated staff accounts for each of the staff member he assigned to my helpdesk/company.
    I did understand the client I think he did not understand me. Client wanted a login for each of our techs. I told him this is not possible. The reason this is not possible as we work with alot of remote staff, and it would waste alot of time on the admin side to have techs assigned with individual login's. So we simple use a shared system with a single login like "support team". This is our system we have no complaints about how our system works. If client wanted to track which staff answered the ticket all we need is the time. and we could refer to our roster. There is a bit more to that "Why woul you check all the tickets ?" But due to our PP we cannot release that information.

    The Trial Tickets vs Indian ISP's.
    Approximately 3 help desk tickets where lodged by myself who personally Live in Bunbury, Western Australia. A few tickets by the client were also listed (Due to our PP we can tell you his location).

    Currently we use a company that provided Premium Hosting Solutions good speed good uptime etc to host our Billing system and Our main website. We also have our inbound tickets imported. Clients ticket system was not sending notifications so my host asked me for the email that was sending the notifications we ask him if we could provide this he handed over the email address with no hestitations.

    He also did ask wow you do not manage your own servers I replyed with Yes we do not feel the need to have a dedicated server as we are confortable with our host and by all means ensure we can do the best to secure our data as well.

    The Technical support team that are at my host then proceeded to customer site, and submitted a test ticket. To see if we could get notifications. It would seem rather it is the clients problem we are not getting notifications.

    I could no longer be thrown around like that. My customer's data is at stake and this clown is sharing such details he signed an NDA for with his hosting Company.
    Customer was treated with respect. I did at one occasion ask him to basicall chillout a little bit. The NDA is technically invalid because the laws are governed in a diferrent country to which neither the client or I recide.

    Oh wait! Why is there a hosting company? They are on a shared hosting platform. Imagine if that server was pwn'd due to an exploit from some other website hosted on that server. Their account is compromised, hence my help desk details are compromised. Bottom line, my customer's details are compromised. I asked him about this and this was his response.
    I explained to the client that we have a good host and there security setting's are upto par if it was our own. I explained to him that if it really Does not matter if we have a $1 hosting account or $100000000 server the server is always hackable. We have many methods inplace included importing mail to our ticket system via a secure meaning confidential areas have strong passwords and are encrypted with 128 bit SSL encryption we also have .htaccess password IP restricted area's.

    Client was made aware of this before signing up. We do not provide refunds and state that before each customer sign's up.

    Our team is Germany, America and Australia. We do not have a single support company In use in the Indian/Asia Area.

    Questions are welcome.
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  5. #5
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    Surely you weren't expecting top notch or even a decent service for $1.75 a ticket? The saying "You get what you pay for" obviously holds true here..
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    I would like to annouce this has been on the cards the new pricing, It was released with our brand new web design which was released yesterday. Client has not even been with us for 3 days.
    Oh, I'm thanking god that he rid me of the pain within 3 days. That was far too long!

    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    I did understand the client I think he did not understand me. Client wanted a login for each of our techs. I told him this is not possible. The reason this is not possible as we work with alot of remote staff, and it would waste alot of time on the admin side to have techs assigned with individual login's. So we simple use a shared system with a single login like "support team". This is our system we have no complaints about how our system works. If client wanted to track which staff answered the ticket all we need is the time. and we could refer to our roster. There is a bit more to that "Why woul you check all the tickets ?" But due to our PP we cannot release that information.
    Don't make it sound suspicious. You can report in any info you'd feel like to the mods -- so long you don't include my client's details. You have no further info apart from what I have stated either way.

    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    Approximately 3 help desk tickets where lodged by myself who personally Live in Bunbury, Western Australia. A few tickets by the client were also listed (Due to our PP we can tell you his location).
    There were 0 tickets that were made available to you by me or my clients (sales tickets were opened, but you dont have access to them anyway). The only tickets that you had access to were the ones you created and the ones your hosting company created.

    Your clearly using Privacy Policy has a way to get around this mess you have created yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    He also did ask wow you do not manage your own servers I replyed with Yes we do not feel the need to have a dedicated server as we are confortable with our host and by all means ensure we can do the best to secure our data as well.
    You may be comfortable with a whole lot of things. I'm comfortable with running my data-center from my basement, but that does not mean I'm allowed to or I do. Thats not the point. The point is that you are overlooking security which is utmost importance here and the worst thing about that is that you admitting to it like as though it does not matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    The Technical support team that are at my host then proceeded to customer site, and submitted a test ticket. To see if we could get notifications. It would seem rather it is the clients problem we are not getting notifications.
    Code:
    =============== 2009-08-19 03:41:28 [23749] 1Mdibg-0006B3-Am <= [email protected] H=server.infinitetech.eu (server.infinitetech.eu) [212.95.57.250]:44937 I=[67.220.208.50]:25 P=esmtps X=TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256 CV=no S=2354 [email protected] T="New Ticket - [!PHN-103558]: test" from <[email protected]> for  
    8/19/2009  11:28:37 PM  Joshua :: Verdict Networks Pty Ltd  Ganesh Rao  [email protected] 2009-08-19 03:41:28 [23753] cwd=/var/spool/exim 3 args: /usr/sbin/exim -Mc 1Mdibg-0006B3-Am 2009-08-19 03:41:28 [23753] 1Mdibg-0006B3-Am => tickets <[email protected]> F=<[email protected]> P=<[email protected]> R=virtual_user T=virtual_userdelivery S=2484 QT=0s DT=0s 2009-08-19 03:41:28 [23753] 1Mdibg-0006B3-Am Completed QT=0s ==============
    You posted the above log on my IM. Stop lying so openly that you did not receive any notifications. Shame on you!

    [QUOTE=verdictjosh;6349123]Customer was treated with respect. I did at one occasion ask him to basicall chillout a little bit.

    He asked me to chill out by sending this:

    8/18/2009 11:50:06 AM Joshua :: Verdict Networks Pty Ltd Ganesh Rao why you acting like a jerk for ?
    ^^__ above was said when I refused to sign up initially because of the single login for all staff

    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    The NDA is technically invalid because the laws are governed in a diferrent country to which neither the client or I recide.
    And see, clowns like him actually exist on WHT. We should all show him a circus rather than a forum. Seriously man, how old are you to make a comment such the one above?

    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    I explained to the client that we have a good host and there security setting's are upto par if it was our own. I explained to him that if it really Does not matter if we have a $1 hosting account or $100000000 server the server is always hackable. We have many methods inplace included importing mail to our ticket system via a secure meaning confidential areas have strong passwords and are encrypted with 128 bit SSL encryption we also have .htaccess password IP restricted area's.
    You can encrypt all you like. But when I have root on your server and do a rm -rf /home/yourusername -- your done. Your security settings are worthless when you are compromising root. Accept this. Such a shame that a technical support outsourcing company has trouble seeing this. I can't see what security framework their client's servers must be relying on.

    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    Client was made aware of this before signing up. We do not provide refunds and state that before each customer sign's up.
    You made no such statement. All you kept saying was...

    Joshua: Do not send me an email telling me you want cancel etc...
    Joshua: I hate that crap

    I'm not expecting a refund from a Company like yours anyway. But I want to make sure I point out that you should be one of the worst to deal with.

    Quote Originally Posted by IH-Rameen View Post
    Surely you weren't expecting top notch or even a decent service for $1.75 a ticket? The saying "You get what you pay for" obviously holds true here..
    Me being an idiot, fell for that. TouchSupport is simply expensive and amazing. I assumed Oz's will be quite similar to those Americans atleast service wise and since the pricing was cheap, I signed up. Well, I was wrong!
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  7. #7
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    The only thing I think I need to explain myself here and with all means will is
    ^^__ above was said when I refused to sign up initially because of the single login for all staff
    The reason I called the Client a Jerk was because he committed three times and canceled three times... With his comments Bob cares and Touch support are better this and better that, with the final sale turnover being he almost got hit by a bus and he cannot keep doing this. Somewere In this dilemma I could him a Jerk...

    I asked him after 3 occassions of him changing his mind that I will not tolerate

    Joshua: Do not "send me an email telling me you want cancel" etc...
    Joshua: I hate that crap

    It is just annoying... And look what happened... He changed his mind again...

    apart from that, I have no reason to comment further expect to general public questions.
    Last edited by respite; 08-20-2009 at 01:37 PM.
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    The only thing I think I need to explain myself here and with all means will is
    The reason I called the Client a Jerk was because he committed three times and canceled three times... With his comments Bob cares and Touch support are better this and better that, with the final sale turnover being he almost got hit by a bus and he cannot keep doing this. Somewere In this dilemma I could him a Jerk...

    I asked him after 3 occassions of him changing his mind that I will not tolerate

    Joshua: Do not "send me an email telling me you want cancel" etc...
    Joshua: I hate that crap

    It is just annoying... And look what happened... He changed his mind again...

    apart from that, I have no reason to comment further expect to general public questions.
    I 'hesitated' once. Not thrice. You have knack for lying and exaggerating, don't you?

    And I'm glad I changed my mind permanently. And I thank god I did!

    I'd any day have a client cancel on me a 100 times and yet wouldn't call him a jerk. So much for business etiquette
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  9. #9
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    Wow. This is why I always recommend to do your own support. If you want to succeed in web hosting you MUST know how to support your own clients. Why outsource? Don't do web hosting if you don't enjoy servicing other people. It just fun to help people, make them happy... in return your business will flourish as it should.

    Help people and the favor will be returned to you automatically, it's just the nature, the law of how things works in this universe.

    Good luck to you both
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jrianto View Post
    Wow. This is why I always recommend to do your own support. If you want to succeed in web hosting you MUST know how to support your own clients. Why outsource? Don't do web hosting if you don't enjoy servicing other people. It just fun to help people, make them happy... in return your business will flourish as it should.

    Help people and the favor will be returned to you automatically, it's just the nature, the law of how things works in this universe.

    Good luck to you both
    Its not that I don't like servicing my clients on my own, but its getting more and more difficult with just 2 people handling 100s of tickets a month.

    Will wait another month and hire another staff member full time. This outsourcing as you say is clearly the wrong way.
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  11. #11
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    Hate to say this, but verdict it's not looking good in your favor. Your the one acting "childish" here, and not very professional.

    Although this is just another reason I'd rather pay someone locally minimum wage and teach them to basics.
    Not sure what to put here :-P
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  12. #12
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    Yup agreed, you both should part ways. And ganesh needs to have someone locally trained to have a neck of it.
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  13. #13
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    Another bad review of verdictnetworks, and another childish episode by Josh.

    I would certainly run from any company even after that live chat behavior. "None of your business" -- very unprofessional. I suggest any potential clients do an extensive research on verdictnetworks and the posts here by verdictjosh.
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  14. #14
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    Another bad review of verdictnetworks, and another childish episode by Josh.
    I'm not sure what you mean by another bad review... This is my first known complaint regarding my business...
    Last edited by respite; 08-26-2009 at 07:15 PM.
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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by verdictjosh View Post
    I'm not sure what you mean by another bad review... This is my first known complaint regarding my business...
    And to add even more mess, he thinks its a compliment!

    Someone should really help him.
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  16. #16
    Joshy is attacking me in another thread, one where I got crappy service from a hosting company in INDIA that he is hosting with per his own post. So his post above about not having agents in India may be true to some degree, but in another way its a lie. If his host has agents in India, doesn't he technically as well? To be blunt, he might as well be operating out of India.

    This guy is a joke!
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by IPStrada LLC View Post
    you both should part ways.
    Sounds like the plan
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