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  1. #1
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    Jul 2009
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    451

    Colo, a year or so, so far review

    So, I am colo-ing now for a bit over a year. I used shared, vps, and dedicated for years.

    The learning curve to 'properly' set up dns, mail, httpd, etc was a bit tough, but once done easily redone. Not using a control panel made it hard at first but now a better sys admin is awakened.

    downtime: In the entire time I have been colo-ing I only experienced one 'slow down' and no downtime. The slow down was a few weeks ago when some group did a 'full gig' DDOS on someone at the datacenter. Took a few hours to get qwest to work with the center to stop it. Server was slow, but not down.

    In my years with vps, shared, and dedicated I experienced (through all hosts) significant downtimes every month, weird 'apache turned itself off', and other weird things.

    Many times those hosts would have 'fails' of equipment that would knock out my site for a few hours. I always had to check each day to make sure the site was up just in case.

    Some times I would come home from work and turn the computer on only to find a 'page cannot be found' as for some reason my server was inaccessible. No prior knowledge to a scheduled downtime or email explaining an outage ever.

    As for my colo, one day I received an email stating they were going to be working on some network equipment (that did not affect my server) but just wanted everyone to know.....3 weeks in advance of the schedule.


    The hosts I used left me hanging many times and many phone calls / wasted hours. My colo has never been down (that I know of).

    The hosts use ensim, cpanel, etc...and those quirky bugs sometimes cause downtime, mail or apache to shutoff, etc. My colo system without a control panel has never had any kind of issue whatsoever like that.

    The only issues my colo has had is when I go in and start playing with it...and mess up a setting that won't allow a restart of apache or dns or something. Easily fixed and immediately back up.

    The last year I have had no problem sleeping at night knowing my server was up.

    I was really worried about being host free and not having someone to call when I went colo. The sheer number of calls to support with my hosts each month made it scary...who was I going to call when I had issues if I colo?

    yikes.


    Turns out, I have never had a problem that needed me to call anyone while coloing (at least not yet).

    My cost is 150 a month versus 149 a month for the old dedictated.

    My internet connection is a full 1mpbs, capped, all my own, right to the net. My hosts gave me shared lines of unknown speed and cap.

    My hosted sites always had real slow times. My colo has been consistent in speed and way faster than any plan I had before.


    My best dedicated was a 2ghz cel, 2 drives of 80 gigs, 2 gb ram.

    My first colo is a dual quad core (intel/harpertowns), 4 320 gb drives, 4 gb ram.



    Going colo was hard. In retrospect I would add the time it takes to learn to manage your own server is much less than the time you spend banging your head while waiting on the phone with a host's service plan.


    One of the best decisions I ever made.



    Oh, and security....

    I looked back at my old dedicated systems (have them backed up)...and I see all the things the host had running as part of the managed servers...wow. So many unneeded insecure things.
    And the settings were pretty poor too.

    my colo is buttoned down, cleaned of most software I do not need, and the settings are for security...

    yea...colo one year review? The best ever.


    FYI- I leased a shared cabinet direct from a datacenter, not a reseller. 2u space, but I put in a 1u computer.

    My only growth option is to go to a private half rack for 500 a month which is about 20U.

    I cannot wait.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
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    441
    Sounds like you've had a great experience. I too have been colo'ing my own server after moving from shared, reseller, vps and dedis and I can tell you it's been great so far.

    P.S. - Why not let us know whom you're colocating with ?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
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    San Diego CA
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    I am glad to see you happy about your colo experience, have you ever wondered why dedicated and vps host don't have tours? while colo can't wait to show you what they have, I have been in this business for over 14 years, colo is always better than dedicated or vps, you get full control over your environment and you can't afford to be down.

  4. #4
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    May 2008
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    Iowa
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    Very nice review. The part I was most impressed with was...
    Quote Originally Posted by programguy View Post
    downtime: In the entire time I have been colo-ing I only experienced one 'slow down' and no downtime. The slow down was a few weeks ago when some group did a 'full gig' DDOS on someone at the datacenter. Took a few hours to get qwest to work with the center to stop it. Server was slow, but not down.
    Would you be so kind as to let us know what company your colocating with? Great review and I'm pleased to see your experience has been delightful.
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  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    451
    I colo'd with one 1vault networks in lauderdale florida, not 10 minutes from my house. I live about 45 minutes to an hour from a NAPoftheamericas in miami, but could find no good reseller for colo space there and found 1vault.

    www.1vault.net

    they allow you to start with a 2u lease in a shared cabinet. 159 a month, liberal with the ips, direct connect to the net. I paid a 99 setup fee and they were cool throughout the whole thing.

    here is a prnewswire about them
    http://www.reuters.com/article/press...09+PRN20090720

    I felt lucky. I spent 4 months trying to find a decent reseller or datacenter in my area...it was hard.

    The first month I did some goofy things like messed up my shadow file and needed to reset the root password...and since I messed the file up it was not as simple as turning it on with a keyboard attached. They did it for me, no charge.
    When I first installed, I set the ip address wrong on my remote reboot card, I mailed the guy the file to change it and he did...no charge.

    They seem solid...but this is my only colo so far, so nothing to compare it to. The fact that they worked with me as a newb to colo was awesome and a great sell.

    They also house, so they say, the servers for the county...so that was a good selling point too.


    I do not know the extra costs, setup and stuff, of a half rack, but I know the monthly is 500 with about 20Us and a 120v 208 3 phase apc pdu kinda thingee in it.


    should have done this a decade ago....system admin is a frightener until you do it.

    My rep is Mario Strohm, tell him account 804001 (bob) sent you.
    Last edited by programguy; 08-11-2009 at 02:54 PM.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Orlando, FL
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    1,063
    I've always been into to colo. I have a few dedicated servers simply so I don't have all my eggs in 1 basket. If you know what you are doing, and have the gear. Colo rocks!

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    San Diego CA
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    161
    Here is my opinion and please don't take this the wrong way, I think when you are ready to go colo is when this isn't a part time job anymore and it becomes your career.

  8. #8
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    Oct 2008
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    2,253
    Great to hear you have had nice uptime and have been able to manage everything nicely.
    Leader of the new anti sig spamming club.

  9. #9
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    Jan 2009
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    3,878
    I'm pretty much set on colo at this point, partly due to the slow to give me pricing dedicated providers. And the insane amount of cost involved. I am already spending plenty on dedicated.

    I went and met with the VP of a local colo today. Small building, 70 hour generator, full UPS, can lease as little as 1U starting at $50 per U. Granted I need a bit more than that. Fiber provided by Level 3 and backup fiber by TWC. I can even grab a full cabinet, or a suite when we grow steadily. :-)

    I'm currently building out equipment from supermicro, it's pretty much a done deal. However I am still keeping an out of area dedicated box for a backup DNS server, but that's generally a requirement if you know what you are doing.

    Here is what we are moving into, fairly sexy boxes.

    Server 1 (colo)
    SUPERMICRO SYS-5015M-MT+B 1U Rack Server
    4 x WD RE3 320GB 7200 RPM SATA HDD's (RAID10)
    3ware 9650SE-4LPML - 4 SATA II Controller
    Crucial 4GB DDR2 667 ECC Unbuffered Server Memory
    Xeon E3110 3.0GHz LGA 775 65W Dual-Core CPU

    Server 2 (colo)
    SUPERMICRO SYS-5015M-MT+B 1U Rack Server
    4 x WD RE3 500GB 7200 RPM SATA HDD's (RAID10)
    3ware 9650SE-4LPML - 4 SATA II Controller
    Crucial 8GB DDR2 667 ECC Unbuffered Server Memory
    Xeon L3360 Yorkfield 2.83GHz LGA 775 65W Quad-Core Server CPU

    Server 3 (offsite)
    Backup DNS server.

    Switch
    Cisco Catalyst 3550 24-Port

    Now the switch I am still investigating, not sure exactly what to grab. Any suggestions?

    @programguy
    It definitely seems like our best option to move to colo. Now that I've heard your story, it's an easy decision at this point. That and the amount of money we are spending on dedicated is just silly.

    Thanks!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
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    451
    indeed.

    I did a workup on the costs over a two year period for colo versus dedicated.

    It was obvious immediately that the computer I was going to build was a ton better than anything I would get dedicated and I would be sure it was not refurbished junk too.

    I put my comp together for about 2 grand including backup stuff like fans and powersupply just in case.

    100 for set up, and 159 a month.

    For a like system in a dedicated (2 quad cores, 4 sata drives, 4gb ram) it was close to 800 a month at the time. Plus setups.

    two years at 800 a month and 800 setup = 20,000 USD
    two years colo, 2k build, 100 setup, 159/mo = 5,916 USD

    Actually got me thinking about doing hosting..that is some heavy cash difference.

    A half rack, colo would be about 12k for the two years plus equip costs.

    So for that same 20 grand for one dedi server I could have a half rack with 8k in equipment for two years and probably rent out 10 to 15 U to other server owners.

    makes you want to do a host doesn't it?

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    West Palm Beach, FL
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTrike View Post
    It definitely seems like our best option to move to colo. Now that I've heard your story, it's an easy decision at this point. That and the amount of money we are spending on dedicated is just silly.
    Certainly not discouraging anyone at all, but I think it's easy to forget about the hidden costs. You need spares and replacements for everything. At least one full spare server ready to go at a moments notice. Spare RAM, HDD, PSU's, Same with any switches or routers involved. How are you handling backup? What are you doing in the event of a multi-hour or longer event at the DC? Are you PCI compliant (both you and the DC)? Do you have off-site DR? How many carriers do you have (physical, not a single blended connection from the DC) and who are they? Etc, etc, etc.

    There's also the labor factor. When you had dedicated hosting it wasn't you driving to the DC at 3am to investigating a hardware failure or a server not rebooting. Remote hands can only handle so much. How do you handle that when you want a vacation? Much of what you're paying with dedicated is the staff behind the scenes (all 24 hours a day of it) fixing the problems you're never aware of and there to answer the phone when you do need it. Prepare for years of lost sleep until *you* can staff a 24/7 support team, then it's only some lost sleep.

    Again, by all means.. get out there and do it, but bear in mind there's definitely a lot more than just the cost of hardware, but you'll only know that once you've 'been there, don't that' for awhile.

    @programguy -- glad to hear you've had a good experience with 1vault. We're not too far away from them (or you), but I hadn't toured the facility. We wound up with cage space at both the NAP and Telefonica (shared at NAP / dedi at TELF), but it's good to know 1vault is around too.

    Good luck!

    Wayne
    Applied Innovations (www.appliedi.net)
    Microsoft Gold Certified Hosting Partner, ASP.net Featured Host.
    Specializing in Windows Hosting since 1999.

  12. #12
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    Jan 2009
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    If i'm not losing sleep, i'm not getting anywhere fast. Success takes hard work and the will to carry out said hard work. I'm not doing this on some "kiddy" impulse, but rather as a long term strategy. What experience am I gaining (both in business and technical) if my rented servers from somebody's data center are being fixed by them and not me or potential employees that I end up hiring?

  13. #13
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    Nov 2007
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    West Palm Beach, FL
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTrike View Post
    If i'm not losing sleep, i'm not getting anywhere fast. Success takes hard work and the will to carry out said hard work. I'm not doing this on some "kiddy" impulse, but rather as a long term strategy. What experience am I gaining (both in business and technical) if my rented servers from somebody's data center are being fixed by them and not me or potential employees that I end up hiring?
    Not trying to fault you. All valid points. I'm just pointing out, when you say something to the effect of 'pricing we pay for dedicated hosting is silly' there's a lot (big understatement) more than just crunching the numbers between monthly dedicated and colo + a few servers that tends to go unforeseen. Not saying you haven't heavily thought about it, but its something I hear quite a bit and people sometimes really don't know what it takes to go out on their own or what they (long term) are getting into.

    Not handling the infrastructure allows you to concentrate and build the aspects of the business that separate you from the crowd -- finding your niche (maybe you already have one). What makes you different? Otherwise, you're just another guy with a couple of servers (in an ocean of other guys with a couple servers), but now you have other aspects of the business fighting for your attention and time rather than concentrating on your core competencies.

    There's definitely a solid plan with letting someone else handle all of the servers and infrastructure while you pilot the business aspects and build a solid, growing client base. Host Gator is probably the biggest example I can think of for a company that was able to grow as fast as they did partly because they leveraged someone else (The Planet) and didn't worry about things like having to finance, develop and deploy infrastructure (server / network) needs.

    You're obviously eager and in it for the long haul, so go for it.
    Applied Innovations (www.appliedi.net)
    Microsoft Gold Certified Hosting Partner, ASP.net Featured Host.
    Specializing in Windows Hosting since 1999.

  14. #14
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    Jul 2009
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    Quote Originally Posted by AI-Wayne View Post
    @programguy -- glad to hear you've had a good experience with 1vault. We're not too far away from them (or you), but I hadn't toured the facility. We wound up with cage space at both the NAP and Telefonica (shared at NAP / dedi at TELF), but it's good to know 1vault is around too.

    Good luck!

    Wayne
    I tried for months to get a reseller at the nap. I only found a couple that were intelligent and all based 100s of miles away. And their charges to do anything to the comp were so high.

    NAP would not let me in with less than a full rack. But it was only 1275 a month for 42U. But vault was closer and what the heck.

    The NAP is like the holy grail....where google sits...lol Must be nice.




    Saving 10 grand for a few years, you can handle the cost of the extra server components and any hands on costs. The dedi's go out all the time and until you call them up, they are down.

    The real issue is your ability to administrate the server and to replace anything.

    My dedi's that I had were usually never updated at all by my hosts. My current system is updated every day with redhat updates and checked everyday for spamassassin updates. 100 times more secure.

  15. #15
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    Nov 2007
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTrike View Post
    Now the switch I am still investigating, not sure exactly what to grab. Any suggestions?
    Forgot to comment on this. You can find some great deals on used Cisco obviously, but if you can push the budget a little, we've been very impressed with the Juniper EX switches. The bang-for-the-buck factor is truly impressive. We've deployed both the 3200's and 4200's in a variety of uses and want more. Will definitely try the EX2200 which seem like they might become our default top of rack switch.
    Applied Innovations (www.appliedi.net)
    Microsoft Gold Certified Hosting Partner, ASP.net Featured Host.
    Specializing in Windows Hosting since 1999.

  16. #16
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    I guess what I was getting at, was that I'd rather pay somebody local to manage my servers local for me. Long term does not involve me running the servers or equipment, rather hiring additional employees for monitoring, support, maintenance, etc. While I go out and recruit new clients and generally run the business. In the long term, I don't want to be doing the technical stuff anymore, but want the 'ability' to be hands on should I so choose to. Something of a connection with my business that I otherwise would not have with rental/leased equipment from a dedicated provider. For me it takes away from the pride and personal touch that I desire.

    On that note, I still take your comments as constructive. It's always nice to have things pointed out that I could have potentially overlooked.

    HostGator is a great example, yes, but I don't want to be anything like HostGator. If I did, I would be going in the wrong direction. Going into colo gives me a solid base to provide to local clients. Who upon hearing "We have our own equipment locally" get all warm and fuzzy. Granted my original thoughts were target the internet. Thatss hard in this as you say "ocean of other guys with a couple of servers." Going colo allows me to have that personal interaction with my clients that I try to present over the phone, email, support tickets, etc. Now that goes pretty well, but it's just not the same as in person dealing with small/medium sized businesses.

  17. #17
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    Jul 2009
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    And I will add to the local experience. I feel warm and fuzzy knowing I can run to the server and fix it if I need to at anytime and not wait for some company to respond to a mail.


    and...although a datacenter can sometimes go bankrupt, there is nothing like losing every single bit of data, lots of money, and permanent loss to your data when a 'host' goes down and disappears...

    that has happened to me once. Never again. No matter how wonderful it is to have someone else do things, the chance of your business being 'gone' completely overnight is just too scary.

    Ask cihost custs. and other people on the net when their entire business just disappeared overnight...never to return.

    local rocks. At the least you can go down and get your servers by talking to the police if they go bankrupt and you own them.

    And it is a serious recession now, even depression. Will the host be there tomorrow? Oh, the big ones will be you say...sure and lehman brothers will be there tomorrow too....ooops.

    so if i was going to do a host company I would never consider anything but colo in a good facility...like where wayne is.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTrike View Post
    I guess what I was getting at, was that I'd rather pay somebody local to manage my servers local for me. Long term does not involve me running the servers or equipment, rather hiring additional employees for monitoring, support, maintenance, etc. While I go out and recruit new clients and generally run the business. In the long term, I don't want to be doing the technical stuff anymore, but want the 'ability' to be hands on should I so choose to. Something of a connection with my business that I otherwise would not have with rental/leased equipment from a dedicated provider. For me it takes away from the pride and personal touch that I desire.
    Really well put.

    Quote Originally Posted by MikeTrike View Post
    Going into colo gives me a solid base to provide to local clients. Who upon hearing "We have our own equipment locally" get all warm and fuzzy. Granted my original thoughts were target the internet. Thatss hard in this as you say "ocean of other guys with a couple of servers." Going colo allows me to have that personal interaction with my clients that I try to present over the phone, email, support tickets, etc. Now that goes pretty well, but it's just not the same as in person dealing with small/medium sized businesses.
    Your niche!

    Quote Originally Posted by programguy View Post
    And I will add to the local experience. I feel warm and fuzzy knowing I can run to the server and fix it if I need to at anytime and not wait for some company to respond to a mail.
    That's a really good point. I personally couldn't do it unless I could reach out and touch the server in a reasonable amount of time. I know an awful lot of people colo servers hundreds and sometimes thousands of miles away from them, but you really have to trust the people on the other end handling things for you. Really a lot more so than trusting your dedicated server provider.
    Applied Innovations (www.appliedi.net)
    Microsoft Gold Certified Hosting Partner, ASP.net Featured Host.
    Specializing in Windows Hosting since 1999.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by programguy View Post
    And I will add to the local experience. I feel warm and fuzzy knowing I can run to the server and fix it if I need to at anytime and not wait for some company to respond to a mail.


    and...although a datacenter can sometimes go bankrupt, there is nothing like losing every single bit of data, lots of money, and permanent loss to your data when a 'host' goes down and disappears...

    that has happened to me once. Never again. No matter how wonderful it is to have someone else do things, the chance of your business being 'gone' completely overnight is just too scary.

    Ask cihost custs. and other people on the net when their entire business just disappeared overnight...never to return.

    local rocks. At the least you can go down and get your servers by talking to the police if they go bankrupt and you own them.

    And it is a serious recession now, even depression. Will the host be there tomorrow? Oh, the big ones will be you say...sure and lehman brothers will be there tomorrow too....ooops.

    so if i was going to do a host company I would never consider anything but colo in a good facility...like where wayne is.

    Thats the warmest and most fuzzy feeling ever!

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