Results 1 to 19 of 19
  1. #1

    Question about Meta keywords

    Hi,

    I am very new to web hosting and search engine rankings; but as I search more on SEO and rankings, I am getting more confused.

    Basically, some experts have argued that one of the main factors for search engine ranking is about the meta keywords, meta descriptons, and etc.

    Now, if this is the case, what happened if I copy a website that's in the first position of the ranking? Technically, if I copy everything from that page, including the meta keywords and etc., the website I made would be at the top also. But is that the case?

    Another argument which I saw the most is about "links". Although I don't doubt this linking system, there are billions of websites out there, how can a search engine go through that much websites and collect all the linking information?

    Are there more factors in search engine ranking than the mentioned ones here?

    I hope we can share some thoughts together.

  2. #2
    You could technically do that, and still rank for some of the long tail SEO terms that article hits. However, chances are that the first place article will have a ton of backlinks to it. The search engine will know its the original document because it has the most links, and will likely be indexed long before you can get your duplicate page on there.

    The search engines can do this because they have thousands of powerful servers crawling sites on any given day. The more popular the site, the more often it gets crawled.

    So a site that is 2 years old and hasn't been updated in months, likely won't get crawled again for awhile or until new links are built to the old site.

    If you build a backlink on a social networking site, say, Propeller, those links often get picked up within the hour. It is because Propeller is updated so frequently it knows that it should dedicated a bot to the site for constant crawling and updates.
    Download my eBook + Videos: Starting your own successful web hosting company.
    Learn from a web host with 7 years of experience.

  3. #3
    Hi dbbrock1,

    First of all, thanks for your inputs and they are valuable. I do agree with the idea of "updating the website".

    However, I am still confused with the following examples:
    1.) I tried to search the word "electronics" on google with the assumption that most brand names are popular and it would be their interest to be on top ranking. Unfortunately, only one of the bigger company actually showed up in the first few pages.

    2.) Another interesting fact I found is that if you type "translator" on google, the first result is actually bablefish instead the google translator, which is quite interesting.

    Also, I was wondering if it would be helpful if I build a lot of "surface website" (i.e. blogs and etc.) and back link some keywords to my original site?

    Just some thoughts to share.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Hi,

    I am very new to web hosting and search engine rankings; but as I search more on SEO and rankings, I am getting more confused.

    Basically, some experts have argued that one of the main factors for search engine ranking is about the meta keywords, meta descriptons, and etc.

    Now, if this is the case, what happened if I copy a website that's in the first position of the ranking? Technically, if I copy everything from that page, including the meta keywords and etc., the website I made would be at the top also. But is that the case?

    Another argument which I saw the most is about "links". Although I don't doubt this linking system, there are billions of websites out there, how can a search engine go through that much websites and collect all the linking information?

    Are there more factors in search engine ranking than the mentioned ones here?

    I hope we can share some thoughts together.
    Well Technically its not possible even if you copy the keywords because The Websites which are already getting traffic, they keep relevant description on their webpages(content etc..) If you visit those website, you will realize yourself.
    And Remember one thing, Honesty is the best policy.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Another argument which I saw the most is about "links".

    They are right. Back links, one way back links drive the site positioning or ranking on Google. You need search engine friendly links using targeted anchor text to point to your title tag on the page you want to show up.

    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Hi,
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Basically, some experts have argued that one of the main factors for search engine ranking is about the meta keywords, meta descriptions, and etc.
    Forget about meta tags. Its the title tag you have to work with. The rest is salad dressing.
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Are there more factors in search engine ranking than the mentioned ones here?
    Of course. But nothing you are going to have to worry about until you have cut your teeth and got the t-shirt.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbbrock1 View Post
    If you build a backlink on a social networking site, say, Propeller, those links often get picked up within the hour. It is because Propeller is updated so frequently it knows that it should dedicated a bot to the site for constant crawling and updates.
    Three hours, three weeks what's the difference? Throw in the towel right now if you don't have the time it takes. Find something else to do and preferably stay away from the PR circuit. That's where all the snake oil salesman and carpetbaggers end up.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    287
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Hi,

    I am very new to web hosting and search engine rankings; but as I search more on SEO and rankings, I am getting more confused. ........
    I was kinda blurred out just after this line.

    Here are 3 best options for you in my opinion.

    1. If you don't wish to spend any money and want to get best possible knowledge for free:
    a: Join webmasterworld.com and become an active member.

    2. Now if you can spend little money about 150, then it would be your best investment in SEO to:
    a: Sign-up for searchenginenews.com/ book.

    3. Now if are damn serious and got some money to spend:
    a: Get paid account at seomoz.org

    Still in any case, make sure you take care of #1 option mentioned above asap.

    Hope this helps.
    Software Devil

  7. #7
    Hey, I love everyone's input on this and find it quite useful and thoughtful.

    I understand there's no easy way out in this issue otherwise every website will be able get to the top - no dominant position then.

    Regards to SWDevil's reply on investment, I strongly believe there's no free lunch in this world. And to ensure there's competitive advantage, some investments via time or money must occur. However, the main question lies on the "return on investment". I have used a several ranking software before, but didn't quite find too much value in them. Even though most of them provide some insights about keywords and ranking, the effectiveness of improving the position is minimal.

    Regards to back links, I have no doubt they are useful; but again, are there some rankings on which sources that have "linked" your site. As per my previous example, if I started many new websites and back link certain "words" to my site, will it help my ranking?

    Now, another thought: I realized wikipedia and "about.com" results are usually appear in the top ranks for most of the time. Are there specific reasons for it? Though I haven't done the search about their back links, I seldomly see links to their websites from others.

    Would we need to go back to the basic, and start paying the Search Engines for top rankings?

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    287
    Above mentioned sites do not sell you paid submission software or something like that. They are more about information and knowledge.

    Regarding about.com and wikipedia. There are many factors that generally influence your SE Ranking and authority sites & trust factor just happens to be two other influential factor.

    Also by paying SE's you can't get top ranking. You can buy your in PPC ranking but as you know things are little different for organic ranking.

    So it boils down to simple factors:

    1. Either you invest time in learning and gathering proper information.
    2. Hire someone who has the information and does seo for living.

    Hope this helps.
    Software Devil

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    ..... every website will be able get to the top - no dominant position then.
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Theoretically correct. Anyone can get to the top if they get the balance right

    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    if I started many new websites and back link certain "words" to my site, will it help my ranking?
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    No. You would probably make a hash of it and end up getting yourself penalised. This is simple stuff. No need to go out of your way to fake it.
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    wikipedia and "about.com" results are usually appear in the top ranks for most of the time. Are there specific reasons for it?
    Know your place. You are not going to build an "authority" site. Compare apples with apples and try to get the dynamics right.


    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    ... the main question lies on the "return on investment". I have used a several ranking software before, but didn't quite find too much value in them. Even though most of them provide some insights about keywords and ranking, the effectiveness of improving the position is minimal.
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Its your fault entirely. They are not interested in getting you to the top. They are only interested in getting you to buy their services. They are offering you what you want.

    The problem is that you don't know what you want. So who is to blame?

    Quote Originally Posted by SWDevil View Post
    1. Either you invest time in learning and gathering proper information.
    Quote Originally Posted by SWDevil View Post
    2. Hire someone who has the information and does seo for living.
    You have skipped over the one thing that's absolutely vital in all of this and that's the need to spend time getting to know the industry, the doing it yourself. How can you make informed decisions if you don't understand how frighteningly simple it all is?

    Quote Originally Posted by SWDevil View Post
    Above mentioned sites do not sell you paid submission software or something like that. They are more about information and knowledge.

    How many of "those" solution providers recommend that you start off using the free directories to get your site listed and ranked? How many of them tell you that all it takes is half an hour a day for the rest of your natural life? How many tell you to stay away from PR, how to find the directories that have just hatched and which are still accepting submissions.

    Not one I bet. And this is the sort of stuff that you need to understand before you start shelling out on all the hot air and disinformation one gets bombarded with in this game.

    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Would we need to go back to the basic, and start paying the Search Engines for top rankings?
    Yes but not in the way you have in mind.
    Last edited by rainchild; 08-09-2009 at 02:12 AM.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    287
    Like Web Hosting Talk, webmasterworld is also a forum, and hence many users will have different opinion. Trying to learn from a forum or community can in many way be compared to learning from book or even in a classroom. It depends a lot on how you take/understand things. Also in SEO even though a quick-fix way might seem tempting, however in my opinion, most users who take that route are new comers or those who still have lot to learn about SEO.

    So if you only want to pick certain opinion on any board, it will be easy to find, however what will help you be successful in SEO is to listen to comments from those who know what they are doing and then see how you can adapt the knowledge for your website.

    There is no quick-fix and for anyone wanting to start, I still recommend above links as starting point - Also if anyone genuinely thinks there is any other site better than webmasterworld for discussing SEO and related stuff, please please please do let me know - so I can sign up right away.
    Software Devil

  11. #11
    This is the problem. There are so many bullsh*t artists and cult super hero's out there its virtually impossible to find a starting point. That's the way they like it. And that's because it spells school fees. What is there to SEO that a new web master needs to know other than link building?

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    287
    For starters a new web master needs to understand that SEO should be planned before the site design and not after. Think of it like an architect project... skeleton of the site a very important part of any SEO project.

    While setting up a sitemap/structure, it is important to analyze the theme of the site and plan an appropriate strategy to optimize each page if possible.

    While many designers might think of stuffing up site with keywords (even within content) for starts, I would say it is always a good idea to think about end-users while writing content.

    Think of it from other direction. Instead of stuffing content with keywords, try not to use high impact keywords/phrases that would dilute current page's primary key phrase importance.

    Another very important thing many users forget to understand is, 'trying to optimize one page for many words, actually ends up diluting it for every word'. So one would be better off optimizing any given page for its specific theme and no more than 2 or 3 key phrase (hopefully 1 or 2 only).

    But in anyway, what I am saying is also nothing more than common sense, if you just try to think from search engine's point of view (even though SE's itself are not human, people working behind them are).

    Again, trying to understand SEO by reading few pages is like learning to speak another language in a day or two. Its simple, one need to keep practicing and learning.

    Hope this helps.
    Software Devil

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SWDevil View Post
    For starters a new web master needs to understand that SEO should be planned before the site design and not after. Think of it like an architect project... skeleton of the site a very important part of any SEO project.
    Nonsense. Nothing is cast in stone and evrything is about understanding what you are trying to achieve. I have a neighbour who has been battling for three years to get the sort of results I get in three months. Guess what? She has been run through the hoops, uses WebCEO and in short is wasting her time.

    I am gong to introduce her to Wordpress, show her how to work with her title tag and I will change her perception of how this all works. Thats where she starts, this is where she begins by opening doors, peeking inside and learning. Hopefully she will one day join the forum and explain why you are so wrong.

    Relax, unwind. This is simple stuff.


  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    287
    I am happy for both you and your neighbor.

    Good luck
    Software Devil

  15. #15
    No you are not. Why say so if it is not true? Or is that just part of the game?

  16. #16
    Interesting replies and funny comments

    Let me see if I can clarify my issue more to have a better discussion.

    Know your place. You are not going to build an "authority" site. Compare apples with apples and try to get the dynamics right.

    The problem is that you don't know what you want. So who is to blame?
    I believe we are approaching some keys here. Now, I want to make myself clear that I am not trying to compare my site to wikipedia or about.com as I am not building a reference source website.

    As SWdevil and rainchild mentioned: authority and trust are the key factors that place wikipedia and about.com in high ranking. Hence, I believe this is one the most critical factors in influencing a site's ranking.

    Even though I am not building a reference website, it would definitely beneficial to build a website base on those two things: AUTHORITY and TRUST. So how can we incorporate that in our website?

    I am pretty sure what I want, and that is top ranking in SE. I mean many inquiries in this forum is based on "how to improve my website's ranking in SE". I want the same, and I know there's no easy way to do it as I tried many different SEO tactics.

    However, there must be one or two very crucial key(s) to this, and I know it is not the meta tag nor the content of the site. It is something else. And I totally agreed the idea of "authority" and "trust", but again the main question is HOW CAN WE DEVELOPED THAT?

    You have skipped over the one thing that's absolutely vital in all of this and that's the need to spend time getting to know the industry, the doing it yourself. How can you make informed decisions if you don't understand how frighteningly simple it all is?
    Very good comment, but I guess that's why many users are here for. Most people, including myself, wants to understand the industry and do good in this.

    I am sure many people have tried many differnet things in the past and failed, and tried another thing and failed before posting questions in this forum.

    The more we tried, the more we realized how little we know and how many mis-information are out there. That's why I named this topic - Question about Meta Keywords. It is not as simple as changing the meta keywords will boost up your ranking dramatically.

    Many people have argued to build a good content as it will drive more viewership. But there's one key point that is missing here; and that is EXPOSURE.

    It is like saying, "Good product will attract customers itself". Yes, it will but only with the right amount of exposure. You might have the best product in the world that everyone needs, but if no one knows about it, who will buy it?

    Likewise, a website might have good content, but without exposure, how can it drive up the viewership? Content itself is the second step to SEO as it is the crucial step to MAINTAIN visitors. However it does not have an influence on the exposure rate (other than friend sending it to other friends, post it on some forums).

    In short, SE RANKING is what we are aiming at. Through the replies, we understand that meta keywords have little influence over ranking, but the following items do:
    - Back links: what are some good sites where we can post the "back links" at?
    - Title Tags have some influence
    - Authority and Trust: how can we build that?
    Last edited by canuser; 08-09-2009 at 03:57 PM.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SWDevil View Post
    For starters a new web master needs to understand that SEO should be planned before the site design and not after. Think of it like an architect project... skeleton of the site a very important part of any SEO project.
    You are complicating it. To the point where it all becomes meaningless and unachievable. But it's unnecessary. Is this deliberate? Is this what you learn across at WMW?


  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    Even though I am not building a reference website, it would definitely beneficial to build a website base on those two things: AUTHORITY and TRUST. So how can we incorporate that in our website?
    You can't. It takes time and recognition. And recognition from the users you draw to your site. Quite how all of this happens I don't profess to know. But what I do know is that most authority sites are "no follow" if they offer any sort of web interactivity. This to discourage all but the most stupid and persistant of spammers. These are the sort of people who will also whisper sweet nothings in your ear, offer you PR with one hand and slip the other into your back pocket whilst you are otherwise distracted.

    If you want an authority site build it. Make yourself useful. Thereafter network...network...and network some more. And that does not mean spam every blog and forum you can find. It means you have to make yourself useful. What is so difficult to understand about that?


    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    I am pretty sure what I want, and that is top ranking in SE. I mean many inquiries in this forum is based on "how to improve my website's ranking in SE". I want the same, and I know there's no easy way to do it as I tried many different SEO tactics.
    You must have been talking to the wrong people. SEO is as simple as falling off a log. You start by targeting the local searches and you build on those first clumsy success stories until you go national and eventually global

    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    However, there must be one or two very crucial key(s) to this, and I know it is not the meta tag nor the content of the site. It is something else.
    Correct. Its your page title tag and the anchor text you use when setting up the back links you need to secure the search term you are after.

    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    It is like saying, "Good product will attract customers itself". Yes, it will but only with the right amount of exposure. You might have the best product in the world that everyone needs, but if no one knows about it, who will buy it?
    How do politicians get votes? Work that one out and you are well on your way.

    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    In short, SE RANKING is what we are aiming at.
    Nope. Search engine ranking is where you start and once started it never ends. There is always more to do. Another star to reach for. You will never be able to get enough "quality" traffic from the search engines. Its the recognition of your peers that you want. Like I said you have to make yourself useful and if you haven't got the personality to make the cut you are never going to make it. This is not something you can fake.
    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    - Back links: what are some good sites where we can post the "back links" at?
    I like it . This is the question I ask over and over again and I am still fishing for answers. Firstly you want links that are going to hang around. You don't want them to fall over. You don't want to have to replace them nor do you want to have to keep paying to "renew" them .

    What else is there?

    Quote Originally Posted by canuser View Post
    - Title Tags have some influence
    Your page title tag is everything. You start on the home page and bleed your secondary key words down into your child pages after you have captured them and as you can afford to deep link.
    Last edited by rainchild; 08-09-2009 at 11:53 PM.

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Newfoundland, Canada
    Posts
    253
    Backlinks do influence ranking, but there are many more factors that are coming into play right now. Google the term "Universal Search Indicators" - something that Google has started moving towards.

    Metatags have been antiquated for some time - have very little effect, if any on ranking. The Title tag plays and important role.

    Look at all the things that the search engine companies have access to now. Not only are they seeing how someone finds a page via search, but how they interact with the content and site in general.

    "User experiences" is becoming more and more important.

Similar Threads

  1. Question about meta keywords
    By mv808 in forum Web Design and Content
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-24-2007, 03:21 PM
  2. are keywords in [meta] still useful now?
    By hello20109876 in forum Web Design and Content
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-27-2006, 07:39 PM
  3. Meta Keywords.. How many Keywords is too Much
    By leobounds in forum Web Design and Content
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 06-22-2005, 03:05 AM
  4. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 01-29-2003, 02:34 PM
  5. Is it important to keep keywords in meta tag?
    By shann in forum Hosting Security and Technology
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-06-2002, 03:55 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •