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  1. #1

    I am in trouble with WebThosting.com

    Hi friends,

    Is there anyone having an experience with WebTHosting.com? It looks like I am in trouble.

    I have purchased their hosting package but even after 3 days, they didn't created my account on their server. When I opened Paypal Dispute, they suddenly came back with account details and also blaming that it was my fault as I didn't read my emails. This is something shocked me.

    I sent them screen shot of my gmail account that I received all of their emails EXCEPT this one. However rather than accepting it, they again started blaming me and Gmail Services that they missed it. They manipulated their email section on their website to show an older date email. I myself is the witness that it was not their at least until 2nd August.

    Should I continue with this provider? My confidence is shacked. I don't want to continue and asked them to avail 30 Days money back guarantee but now they came up with a hidden cost of $50 for administration fee. What the hell is this? If they are going to deduct $50 from my paid $59 then what sort of this money back guarantee?

    Please advise what should I do?

    Thanks,

    Khalid

  2. #2
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    Personally, I see both parties to blame here. You did not recieve this e-mail after 3 days so you filed a dispute with PayPal.

    - Did you contact Webthosting in regards to this at any time via their contact information, Support Ticket, Their telephone number?

    - If you received their e-mails to your Gmail service and did not receive this one then maybe it was delayed or was not sent due to an error (perhaps) this is not always the hosts fault is not always picked up. This is when you should of contacted them in regards to this and not waiting 3 days to do so.

    Should you continue with the provider?
    - This is totally up to you, We cannot tell you to stay with them or not.
    - As part of their TOS in which you AGREED to states the following:

    There are no refunds on dedicated servers, VPS, administrative fees, install fees for custom software, or domain name purchases.
    Only first-time accounts are eligible for a refund. For example, if you've had an account with us before, canceled and signed up again, you will not be eligible for a refund or if you have opened a second account with us. If we receive any dispute or chargeback from the payment processor you are not eligible for a refund and your account will be charged $50 ad "Administrative Fee"; we also reserve the right to take any action on the account.
    Personally, You adhered their TOS without reading this, By reading what your story has said you never contacted them in regards to your account then filed a dispute with paypal then which initially stated in their tos is not eligible for a refund.

    It always makes sense to read their TOS before signing up and I always say to people to read it but they seem to fail to do so.

    Sean
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  3. #3
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    Did you contact your host prior to opening a paypal dispute?

  4. #4
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    Just to add, one thing that would put me off WebTHosting.com is the fact they don't have an address on their site, the only clue to where they are based is the +91 country code (India).

  5. #5
    Hi Sean,

    First of all, let me add one more thing that I missed in my first post.

    I have created a support ticket on 31st when I purchased this hosting package that I have not received any email that can direct me as what DNS to setup. And their reply was to wait 24hrs.

    On next day (1st Aug), I again checked my emails and also checked their email section, no email was there. So I again replied to their support that I have still not received it even after 24hrs gone. I received a reply next day on 2nd Aug, saying that it was generated. But I was not able to see it neither in my Gmail Inbox nor at their Email Section of their website. Then I opened a dispute with Paypal as I was not having any other option left with me.

    Regarding this term, looks like they have just added it :-) I have read their terms before creating account even today morning I have read it. It was not their. So definitely they have just added it after this case (may be to defend it with Paypal). I have already witnessed them manipulating their website's Email Section to add an email in back date. So it is not something new for me.

    BTW: What is the purpose of 30 Days Money Back Guarantee if you have to deduct $50 which is more than 80% of total amount paid. Regarding dispute, It is the ultimate right of any buyer to raise a dispute if he feels that provider is not delivering the services and not ready to hear you as well. I only opened this dispute when I was disappointed from their support team that they are not ready to hear my voice.

    Thanks,

    Khalid

  6. #6
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    There are no refunds on dedicated servers, VPS, administrative fees, install fees for custom software, or domain name purchases.
    Only first-time accounts are eligible for a refund. For example, if you've had an account with us before, canceled and signed up again, you will not be eligible for a refund or if you have opened a second account with us. If we receive any dispute or chargeback from the payment processor you are not eligible for a refund and we reserve the right to take any action on the account.

    Is what google cache has.


    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:...&ct=clnk&gl=us

  7. #7
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  8. #8
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    I have seen a lot of related threads over there about it and I assume you need to do the search to find them and possibley you will undertsand in which way you need to act
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  9. #9
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    Hostsentry, It also states:
    18.) Changes to the TOS
    WebT Hosting reserves the right to revise its policies at any time without notice.
    Then I opened a dispute with Paypal as I was not having any other option left with me.
    Do not just stop there because the e-mail was delayed, Or, Did not receive. You could of called them as another option. There was another option you could of have chosen.

    Regarding this term, looks like they have just added it :-) I have read their terms before creating account even today morning I have read it. It was not their. So definitely they have just added it after this case (may be to defend it with Paypal). I have already witnessed them manipulating their website's Email Section to add an email in back date. So it is not something new for me.
    Perhaps this is the case, I had a look at the site Hostsentry linked too from google cache adn things do look a bit changed around. Though I cannot see what else can be done? - I could be wrong in this regards, Reason being that they did state they can change their policy at anytime.

    BTW: What is the purpose of 30 Days Money Back Guarantee if you have to deduct $50 which is more than 80% of total amount paid.
    Because of the fact you filed a dispute for a refund, Without cancelling your service with them and or them cancelling it on your behalf.
    Regarding dispute, It is the ultimate right of any buyer to raise a dispute if he feels that provider is not delivering the services and not ready to hear you as well. I only opened this dispute when I was disappointed from their support team that they are not ready to hear my voice.
    I agree and understand this concern of yours, If you are unhappy with their service you should be entitled to a refund. One thing that is against you on this is their actual terms of service in which will work in their behalf.

    I am not sure how well a refund would go in regards to this

    I am not sure what else to say...

    Sean
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  10. #10
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    It is our unfortunate instance though, let me explain.

    The account was activated on the 1st and the details were sent to him. He says he did not receive any email. In his WHMCS client area it clearly shows the email was sent on the 1st. (I can provide the screenshot to prove).

    He then claims that we did not actually send him the email but put it in the WHMCS Emails section.

    He said we had put the Email in WHMCS by force and that it was not really sent. In fact he is the first person to invent WHMCS emails section can be manipulated. I searched google after this but still can not find any way to do so. Can you kindly tell us the way to do so? Can someone from WHMCS tell me how can I put an email in the emails section when that email was not actually sent? When he was asked how to do so in the WHMCS, he avoided that question and went on blaming and threatening us though we asked for apologies many times for any confusion. And then he signs up at WHT to post his lies that we did not activate his account.

    He threatens continuously in tickets but we will not move from our terms. He opened a dispute without doing a cancellation request which waives the refund policy.

  11. #11
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    To add, some one also searched from the cache that it was already there in our terms you are not eligible for a refund for opening a dispute and it was not made after you signed up.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    He said we had put the Email in WHMCS by force and that it was not really sent. In fact he is the first person to invent WHMCS emails section can be manipulated. I searched google after this but still can not find any way to do so.
    Anybody who knows how to use phpMyAdmin could change email records inside of WHMCS - all you would have to do is dispatch the email and then go into the database and edit the date and PRESTO old email record.

    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Can you kindly tell us the way to do so? Can someone from WHMCS tell me how can I put an email in the emails section when that email was not actually sent?
    You could do what I said above - and there are ways to create a new email record in the database without actually sending an email as well. I'm not saying you went through the trouble to do it - but it is possible.

    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    When he was asked how to do so in the WHMCS, he avoided that question and went on blaming and threatening us though we asked for apologies many times for any confusion.
    Why would he have to explain it?

    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    And then he signs up at WHT to post his lies that we did not activate his account.
    People do tend to sign up here after having trouble with your services - it's too bad for them that they didn't sign up before using their services or they may have found a host with at least a couple of positive reviews.

    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    He threatens continuously in tickets but we will not move from our terms. He opened a dispute without doing a cancellation request which waives the refund policy.
    I guess this will be a learning experience for the client to do a good amount of research on a company before signing up.
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  13. #13
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    Please mention the detailed steps to insert an email instead of just mentioning it can be done in MySQL.

  14. #14
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    phpMyAdmin just stores the details like this - http://07z.net/2009-08-04_1708.png

    It wouldn't be too hard to edit the dates and times.
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  15. #15
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    More details please? And how to insert the email among lacs of other emails?

  16. #16
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    Just insert another row and edit the date and time and ID. Here.. I even made a little video to show you how simple it is.

    http://07z.net/2009-08-04_1726.swf
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    More details please? And how to insert the email among lacs of other emails?
    You do realize that with every post you make, you are making more and more of a fool of yourself right? Now don't take this as me *calling* you a fool... you are doing it to yourself.

  18. #18
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    He says he did not receive at all, he did not say he got it late. Thank you for making the video, I was under the impression it can not be edited.

    His account was activated in regular time.

    He continuously called us cheater in ticket. I do not see any way we cheated him.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    You do realize that with every post you make, you are making more and more of a fool of yourself right? Now don't take this as me *calling* you a fool... you are doing it to yourself.
    Thank you for your comment

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Please mention the detailed steps to insert an email instead of just mentioning it can be done in MySQL.
    Need detailed steps so that you can use this in the future?

    In all seriousness, before you think it can't be done, do some research. Firing off like that makes you look silly and inexperienced. Then when someone proves it can be done, it makes you look like an idiot.

    When it comes to MySQL databases, and applications that use them, it's not hard to add in data that shouldn't be there.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Thank you for your comment
    Yeah, normally I'm not that forward about posting such things but you seem oblivious to how others will perceive your messages.
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  22. #22
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    Some data like passwords are not directly stored in the database in many cases, so I was under the impression the emails are not directly there in the database.

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Yeah, normally I'm not that forward about posting such things but you seem oblivious to how others will perceive your messages.
    Lol no offense, I appreciated your comments

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Some data like passwords are not directly stored in the database in many cases, so I was under the impression the emails are not directly there in the database.
    Open up phpMyAdmin and browse the email table and you may be surprised what you find.
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeDVB View Post
    Open up phpMyAdmin and browse the email table and you may be surprised what you find.
    Honestly after all this also till now I did not look at the tables yet. But I will by today. I get so busy with Linux courses that I do not have any time to see the MySQL tables. I thought the emails were in encrypted form.

  26. #26
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    I think, perhaps, that you need to continue your education before investing more in this company. I'm not a worker for or owner of a web hosting business, nor am I very skilled at all but even I knew all of what they mentioned. It's very frightening that you didn't.
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  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Honestly after all this also till now I did not look at the tables yet. But I will by today. I get so busy with Linux courses that I do not have any time to see the MySQL tables. I thought the emails were in encrypted form.
    it's something like you want to climb the mountain but you don't even know how to climb a Tree.

    or it's something Like you are trying to get a Kid but you are not married.

    Really bentink I was a customer of your company and All i saw a bad behaviors and excuses from you" your faults".

    the only good thing you did is refunding me.

    Learn the basics/learn programming then you can handle a hosting company.
    sorry, This user doesn't have a signature

  28. #28
    I think you should of waited first before doing a dispte

  29. #29
    You lost the dispute? How in the hell...I have never won a single paypal buyer dispute ever...even with more proof that I needed.

    They won???
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  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    Honestly after all this also till now I did not look at the tables yet. But I will by today. I get so busy with Linux courses that I do not have any time to see the MySQL tables. I thought the emails were in encrypted form.
    So you just made an assumption based on ignorance or lack of knowledge rather than checking before asserting any claims?

    Quote Originally Posted by futts View Post
    I think, perhaps, that you need to continue your education before investing more in this company. I'm not a worker for or owner of a web hosting business, nor am I very skilled at all but even I knew all of what they mentioned. It's very frightening that you didn't.
    I do agree with what futts has said based upon your responses to every thread on this forum concerning your company and all of the negative threads (that have been verified) about your company and issues with your company and yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_wolf6 View Post
    the only good thing you did is refunding me.
    Consider yourself lucky in this regard.

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_wolf6 View Post
    Learn the basics/learn programming then you can handle a hosting company.
    Even having a basic grasp for how relational database applications function would be a major plus. I know most of what I know from my history (15+ years) of programming in just about every language and dealing with databases and servers on a daily basis for several years now. I will admit that I don't know everything, that I know more than I used to, and I know where to the answer if I don't currently have the answer.

    Being knowledgeable is not nearly as important as being resourceful and knowing where to find the knowledge that you do not currently possess when you need the information.
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  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkhalidf View Post
    Should I continue with this provider? My confidence is shacked. I don't want to continue and asked them to avail 30 Days money back guarantee but now they came up with a hidden cost of $50 for administration fee. What the hell is this? If they are going to deduct $50 from my paid $59 then what sort of this money back guarantee?

    Please advise what should I do?

    Thanks,

    Khalid
    Mate....I'd let them eat the $$$ and prey that they choke on it, and move away ASAP.

    It will prove to be a cheap lesson learned, plus you have gained the knowledge within this thread that prospective hosting clients will be cutting WTH a wide berth when they come across this thread.

    Hopefully WTH do have someone with some savvy of phpmyadmin & mysql....or are they just learning as they go along.

    Either way it does look like the blind leading the blind.

    Even smalltime bedroom kiddie hosts have a fair degree of knowledge.

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  32. #32
    Hi,

    I really appreciate all responses (specially by MikeDVB). I am honored to see so many people helping me to understand this situation and to take decision accordingly. This forum is great.

    Last night, I was in discussion with one of my friend who is a blogger and he raised some very interesting points. I thought this would be of great interest by people here or at least I can hear their point of view on it. The point he made is not for WebTHosting.com rather for Paypal. Paypal has a repute that people trust them and use their services to buy or sell things. Now consider following two terms that WebTHosting.com has introduced,

    If we receive any dispute or chargeback from the payment processor you are not eligible for a refund and your account will be charged $50 ad "Administrative Fee"; we also reserve the right to take any action on the account.
    and more to that,

    WebT Hosting reserves the right to revise its policies at any time without notice.
    The question is "Why paypal has a dispute resolution feature? Or why credit card companies offer Chargeback facility?" This only to support their clients for saving them against frauds. Like what I did. When I felt that I was ripped off by this company, I opened a dispute at Paypal to help safeguard my money.

    How this is possible that a seller snatches your right to safeguard your money? Is that ethical? Moreover, if a company wanted to change terms of reference at any time without any notice, then what is the purpose of mentioning terms of use on their website Or showing it before a transaction?

    Finally, this is also the soul of justice that if two parties are in a dispute then a 3rd party should decide as who is right and who is wrong. Why WebTHosting is putting a constraint on their clients not to use Paypal's dispute resolution services? Why they wanted the ultimate right to do whatever they feel good at their own disposal?

    As I said, this case is already filed as dispute at paypal. Now I wanted to see their outcome. If they decided in favor of WebTHosting, then it means they indirectly supporting the fraud people to rip off their clients if they are using Paypal.

    Please tell me your views as how you see this point?

  33. #33
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    PayPal's a bank. If you write a check to someone, they cash it and don't give you what you bought, the bank has nothing further to do with the dispute and your money is gone. So there's a point-of-view out there that PayPal does more than any other bank to facilitate dispute resolution. There's a lot of fraud out there, so caveat emptor rules. Fortunately, we have the Internet, so anyone can search for information about a potential host -- and hopefully discover they're using PayPal to cover their fraudulent behavior -- before signing up.

    In the modern economy, I think it's about time PayPal revises their procedures regarding "intangible" products. Because right now, fraudsters are abusing the hell out of PayPal to shield them from accountability to their customers.

    Any well-written TOS will contain a clause stating that the terms may change at any time, without notice. That means it's up to the customer to monitor their host's TOS page. In this situation, the company doesn't appear to have altered their TOS until after this conflict arose, which is of course completely unethical, and in a legal dispute would likely be unenforceable.

    Using a changing TOS to scam customers out of their money is FRAUD, but I'm still undecided as to whether this company is an outright fraud, or merely slow to catch on, ethics-wise. It depends on whether this company makes right with the OPs of this thread, as well as this thread:

    http://www.webhostingtalk.com/showthread.php?t=879699

    Bentink could still come to his senses, and refund this customer's money in full, as well as let that other customer get his data and move on. If this company insists on continuing the practice of arbitrary administrative fees for every issue they run into, then change their TOS in an effort to enforce these fraudulent charges, then this company is blatantly and fraudulently unethical.
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  34. #34
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    I personally read Terms of Services of several webhosts, Charging someone $50.00 for Administrative fees that cost them nothing to setup the account in the first place is unethical. To setup and account it would cost them little to nothing at all, But for a client to file a dispute and for WebT to charge $50.00 for that is quite redicioluous.

    Personally, I would not host with a Company that would charge for every minor thing, Even if it was in their TOS. And this is what I advise to everyone READ THE TOS it is not hard and it can save you this hassle in the long run.

    *Sighs*

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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mkhalidf View Post
    Hi,

    I really appreciate all responses (specially by MikeDVB). I am honored to see so many people helping me to understand this situation and to take decision accordingly. This forum is great.

    Last night, I was in discussion with one of my friend who is a blogger and he raised some very interesting points. I thought this would be of great interest by people here or at least I can hear their point of view on it. The point he made is not for WebTHosting.com rather for Paypal. Paypal has a repute that people trust them and use their services to buy or sell things. Now consider following two terms that WebTHosting.com has introduced,



    and more to that,



    The question is "Why paypal has a dispute resolution feature? Or why credit card companies offer Chargeback facility?" This only to support their clients for saving them against frauds. Like what I did. When I felt that I was ripped off by this company, I opened a dispute at Paypal to help safeguard my money.

    How this is possible that a seller snatches your right to safeguard your money? Is that ethical? Moreover, if a company wanted to change terms of reference at any time without any notice, then what is the purpose of mentioning terms of use on their website Or showing it before a transaction?

    Finally, this is also the soul of justice that if two parties are in a dispute then a 3rd party should decide as who is right and who is wrong. Why WebTHosting is putting a constraint on their clients not to use Paypal's dispute resolution services? Why they wanted the ultimate right to do whatever they feel good at their own disposal?

    As I said, this case is already filed as dispute at paypal. Now I wanted to see their outcome. If they decided in favor of WebTHosting, then it means they indirectly supporting the fraud people to rip off their clients if they are using Paypal.

    Please tell me your views as how you see this point?
    And when you want to cancel your DSL connection (say) you will go to the bank to do a reverse of the Installation fee, etc or place a cancellation request at the provider? Most of the hosting providers have these in the terms.

  36. #36
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    I agree completely with MikeDVB's posts.

    I've only seen this company, bentink specifically, basically blame their customers for everything and anything, while demonstrating that he has no basic knowledge of hosting technology *without even realizing it*. Dude. Get a clue on how to treat customers, or you will be out before your domain officially turns 1 year old. The lack of knowledge is almost excusable if you treat your customers human. You do realize what you post here is *permanent*, for anyone looking up reviews, right?

    You may want to give that fact some consideration before opening your mouth in response to a customer again.
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  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by bentink View Post
    And when you want to cancel your DSL connection (say) you will go to the bank to do a reverse of the Installation fee, etc or place a cancellation request at the provider? Most of the hosting providers have these in the terms.
    If my DSL provider treated me as bad as you appear to treat your customers (based upon threads and posts on this forum) I would probably do a lot more than reversing the charges - I would likely speak with an attorney to see what (if any) legal actions I could take against such a company.

    It's only a matter of time before you try to screw over the wrong person and end up in the hot-seat.
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting LLC
    New shared plans for 2016! Check them out!
    Highly Available Shared, Premium, Reseller, and VPS
    http://www.mddhosting.com/

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Cleveland,Ohio...
    Posts
    416
    HEY Dan_EZPZ is there a way to slow that video down.


    Just insert another row and edit the date and time and ID. Here.. I even made a little video to show you how simple it is.

    http://07z.net/2009-08-04_1726.swf

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Indiana, USA
    Posts
    16,087
    Dan did do it pretty darn quick didn't he?
    Michael Denney - MDDHosting LLC
    New shared plans for 2016! Check them out!
    Highly Available Shared, Premium, Reseller, and VPS
    http://www.mddhosting.com/

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    212
    Yes.That is the point that you should contact your host company whenever you come across a problem with the service rather than filed a dispute.This is just the same with that a host company suspended a account without any notice.
    About whether continue using them or not will be your choice.Try to search WebThosting.com on WHT to check out if there will be a review from others.And you can do it also on google.If you want a refund,I suggest you reading their TOS first.Most host companys provide an unlimited refund for the first month.But,it will be different they handle a chargeback with paypal.
    Regards!

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