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  1. #1

    Ecatel supporting warez

    Hello,

    I sent a copyright complain to ecatel for one of his clients but I didnt get any replay and for more none of my copyright files were deleted.

    Can anyone help me what to do in order to delete my files in his client's server ?

  2. #2
    Get in touch with a lawyer and see if you can sue Ecatel, assuming you have given enough proof to their abuse department and have waited at least 24 hours.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naimn View Post
    Hello,

    I sent a copyright complain to ecatel for one of his clients but I didnt get any replay and for more none of my copyright files were deleted.

    Can anyone help me what to do in order to delete my files in his client's server ?
    The files are located into ecatel servers or only linking/indexing?
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  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by xmsax View Post
    The files are located into ecatel servers or only linking/indexing?
    No, files are hosted in ecatel server and we sent 2 complain and didnt get any replay.
    Our Music files were uploaded there 7 days before public release and someone stolen our files from our studio.
    We are losing about 10 thousand euros per day and ecatel was the only one hosting provider who didnt send any replay and didnt want to remove our files.
    This website is hosted since 60 days so we are seeking for a solution to remove our files or to fill a lawsuit against Ecatel.

  5. #5
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    Oh God, would you stop with the ridiculous claims?

    1. Why the hell are you still in music business if you make so much money you lose 10 thousand euros a day with a few audio tracks?

    2. If they music files were uploaded 7 days before the public release, just release the music files to the public already.

    3. If you're really losing 10 thousand euros a day you must be making MORE than 10 thousand euros a day, so it should be no problem for you to rent a private jet for you and your lawyer and server the lawsuit papers personally to Ecatel

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by mariushm View Post
    Oh God, would you stop with the ridiculous claims?

    1. Why the hell are you still in music business if you make so much money you lose 10 thousand euros a day with a few audio tracks?

    2. If they music files were uploaded 7 days before the public release, just release the music files to the public already.

    3. If you're really losing 10 thousand euros a day you must be making MORE than 10 thousand euros a day, so it should be no problem for you to rent a private jet for you and your lawyer and server the lawsuit papers personally to Ecatel
    amen to that.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by mariushm View Post
    Oh God, would you stop with the ridiculous claims?

    1. Why the hell are you still in music business if you make so much money you lose 10 thousand euros a day with a few audio tracks?

    2. If they music files were uploaded 7 days before the public release, just release the music files to the public already.

    3. If you're really losing 10 thousand euros a day you must be making MORE than 10 thousand euros a day, so it should be no problem for you to rent a private jet for you and your lawyer and server the lawsuit papers personally to Ecatel
    1.I dont know what you were writing about but "few audio tracks" isnt 70 Records.They costed from 10000 to 70000 euros.

    3.I dont know how did you calculated how much I'm earning or what did you use to write so but we are losing not earning.

    4.Be sure that Lawyer will take care for this very soon.

    5.Better write something that would help us(next time).

    Thanks!

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naimn View Post
    1.I dont know what you were writing about but "few audio tracks" isnt 70 Records.They costed from 10000 to 70000 euros.

    3.I dont know how did you calculated how much I'm earning or what did you use to write so but we are losing not earning.

    4.Be sure that Lawyer will take care for this very soon.

    5.Better write something that would help us(next time).

    Thanks!
    No records producer or recording studio, or even artist, that makes music, would ever come to WHT to discuss an issue like this. ( What connections does WHT have with ecatel anyways? ) How could a company that has the money to make/sell music, come to a FREE forum, and ask for help when it would have the money to ask for help from hired experts on the matter. I find this very very hard to believe, and if this is your day to day business practices, oh boy, i feel sorry for your business.

    second of all you're saying the files are there since 60 days, so you have already lost how much ? 600 000 euros from your claims, and you have not already filled a lawsuit ? come on, get serious, you don't expect us to believe that do you?
    Last edited by themedia; 07-31-2009 at 07:20 AM.

  9. #9
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    someone stolen our files from our studio.
    Have you reported the theft to the police?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by themedia View Post
    No records producer or recording studio, or even artist, that makes music, would ever come to WHT to discuss an issue like this. ( What connections does WHT have with ecatel anyways? ) How could a company that has the money to make/sell music, come to a FREE forum, and ask for help when it would have the money to ask for help from hired experts on the matter. I find this very very hard to believe, and if this is your day to day business practices, oh boy, i feel sorry for your business.

    second of all you're saying the files are there since 60 days, so you have already lost how much ? 600 000 euros from your claims, and you have not already filled a lawsuit ? come on, get serious, you don't expect us to believe that do you?
    Word! Why go to WHT when you have the to money hire a whole bunch of lawyers and other experts..

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naimn View Post
    1.I dont know what you were writing about but "few audio tracks" isnt 70 Records.They costed from 10000 to 70000 euros.

    3.I dont know how did you calculated how much I'm earning or what did you use to write so but we are losing not earning.

    4.Be sure that Lawyer will take care for this very soon.

    5.Better write something that would help us(next time).

    Thanks!
    You said:

    No, files are hosted in ecatel server and we sent 2 complain and didnt get any replay.
    Our Music files were uploaded there 7 days before public release and someone stolen our files from our studio.
    We are losing about 10 thousand euros per day and ecatel was the only one hosting provider who didnt send any replay and didnt want to remove our files.
    This website is hosted since 60 days so we are seeking for a solution to remove our files or to fill a lawsuit against Ecatel.
    So by your words you're saying you're losing 10 thousand euro a day.
    I am going to assume that someone copied the final audio tracks from your studio and leaked them on that site.

    The production of a track may have cost you between 10.000 and 70.000 euro but making a copy of the already done track does not cost you the same amount of money, it only costs you a few minutes and a blank media (CD, flash drive and so on). I doubt the one who stole the tracks also deleted the source material used to create the tracks.

    You can't just say a number out of your belly like 10 thousand a day because no sane person would believe you. It's just like me suing my hosting company for a million dollars because during the two-four hours my server was down for hard drive failure I could have made 1 million dollars in sold software.

    Also, stop blaming other people for your mistakes, you're also responsible.

    If you're working with valuable stuff that costs between 10k and 70k, how come you can't afford to hire a 10-20$ an hour person to stay at the door of the studio at all times? That's only 10-15k a month that could have saved you hundreds of thousands, based on your words.

    In the end... you have sent an email to Ecatel requesting them to do something about it.
    1. Are you the actual owner of the recordings?

    2. Did you send information proving you are the owner of the recordings along with your email? I can very well know some site on Ecatel offers pirated Adobe or Microsoft software but if I report it, Ecatel can't do anything about it, because I'm not the owner of the copyright.

    3. Ecatel doesn't have to give a **** about DMCA because it does not apply to Europe, it only applies in US. As a courtesy they make investigate but they don't have to. Read the Dutch laws and file a report respecting the laws of the country they're in.

    4. Give them time. They may have read your email after 10 hours, forwarded the email to the person leasing the server and from that point the person leasing the server may have 24-48 hours to reply and take action. After that Ecatel may answer your email, disconnect the server, whatever.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by mariushm View Post
    You said:



    So by your words you're saying you're losing 10 thousand euro a day.
    I am going to assume that someone copied the final audio tracks from your studio and leaked them on that site.

    The production of a track may have cost you between 10.000 and 70.000 euro but making a copy of the already done track does not cost you the same amount of money, it only costs you a few minutes and a blank media (CD, flash drive and so on). I doubt the one who stole the tracks also deleted the source material used to create the tracks.

    You can't just say a number out of your belly like 10 thousand a day because no sane person would believe you. It's just like me suing my hosting company for a million dollars because during the two-four hours my server was down for hard drive failure I could have made 1 million dollars in sold software.

    Also, stop blaming other people for your mistakes, you're also responsible.

    If you're working with valuable stuff that costs between 10k and 70k, how come you can't afford to hire a 10-20$ an hour person to stay at the door of the studio at all times? That's only 10-15k a month that could have saved you hundreds of thousands, based on your words.

    In the end... you have sent an email to Ecatel requesting them to do something about it.
    1. Are you the actual owner of the recordings?

    2. Did you send information proving you are the owner of the recordings along with your email? I can very well know some site on Ecatel offers pirated Adobe or Microsoft software but if I report it, Ecatel can't do anything about it, because I'm not the owner of the copyright.

    3. Ecatel doesn't have to give a **** about DMCA because it does not apply to Europe, it only applies in US. As a courtesy they make investigate but they don't have to. Read the Dutch laws and file a report respecting the laws of the country they're in.

    4. Give them time. They may have read your email after 10 hours, forwarded the email to the person leasing the server and from that point the person leasing the server may have 24-48 hours to reply and take action. After that Ecatel may answer your email, disconnect the server, whatever.
    Thanks very much for long and very good questions and help.
    First of all I dont need you to belive me words how much I'm losing and earning(it's for these people with unhelpful answers).
    We found the stealer and he is very "trusted" person, in fact he is the brother of the singer that sold the record to us.

    We also met the person that is the owner of the website that is hosted in ecatel and he refused to remove them.
    We sent 2 emails and DMCA to ecatel but didnt get even one replay.
    We suspended more than 200 websites with DMCA complains and they worked in US and Nordic Countries but not in Germany,Netherlands,UK and France.
    I provided ecatel 4 documents with all information and also told them that if they need any other information I will send them.
    Ecatel is the only that is not removing our files.
    The reason that I'm posting is that here are some people like mariushm that is trying to help but not people like some others that are losing their time to write unhelpful messages.

    Thanks!

  13. #13
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    That's because the DMCA notices are a laugh for people in Europe. The US laws dont apply there, although many people seem to think so. There are different laws here.

    Hosting the files is ofcourse illegal if you can proove you own them. If you cant do that, they wont delete the files.
    Linking to the copyrighted files is legal in Holland aswell by the way.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by DedicatedBox View Post
    That's because the DMCA notices are a laugh for people in Europe. The US laws dont apply there, although many people seem to think so. There are different laws here.
    Not really so. Netherlands already work with their own notice and takedown procedure.

    Quote Originally Posted by DedicatedBox View Post
    Linking to the copyrighted files is legal in Holland aswell by the way.
    No it is not. Linking, uploading or hosting copyrighted files is not legal in the Netherlands. Only downloading music for your own use is legal in the Netherlands. Linking to, uploading, sharing or hosting copyrighted files are all not legal.

    to the OP, you can contact these people http://www.anti-piracy.nl/english/english.asp
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  15. #15
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    We dont really have any offical legal notice for takedown. And even so, the DMCA or something like it does not exist here. You also have to realise the Dutch anti-piracy (BREIN) is spreading more nonsense than you can possibly imagine and far from always get what they want, even though they act as if they are always victorious. Hell, they faked a DDOS attack to make the pirate bay look bad and then quickly sued them for providing NL services without even notifying them of the case. They are not really taken very serious anymore.

    Anyway, wont reply to the rest of it as I dont want to start a discussion about the crooks that run the anti-piracy organisation and the legal and illegal things here.

  16. #16
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    Actually these is a code of conduct agreed between providers and the Dutch Goverment

    http://www.saferinternet.org/ww/en/p..._take_down.htm

    European wide there is a agreement that providers can be held responsible for things they host, under certain circumstances. Read more about it here:
    http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...0L0031:EN:HTML
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 09-30-2009 at 10:33 AM.
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  17. #17
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    Regardless of international laws, several of Ecatel's upstream providers are American (Cogent, Level3, etc). If they were DMCA'd, would they not be obligated to cut access?

  18. #18
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    Guspaz: Probably, only inside American territory. Level3 and Cogent and Global Crossing have all their own separate overseas offices, juridical persons, contracts, and local liabilities.

  19. #19
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    Ecatel was disconnected by most of its American providers already. They currently are connected to Joint Transit AS24785, MFNX AS6461 and GlobalXS AS9009 in addition to 3 peering points.

    They do not have Cogent or Level(3) in their BGP mix.
    See also: http://www.robtex.com/as/as29073.html#graph
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    *

    Quote Originally Posted by Guspaz View Post
    Regardless of international laws, several of Ecatel's upstream providers are American (Cogent, Level3, etc). If they were DMCA'd, would they not be obligated to cut access?
    Hi,

    Two of our upstream providers cut us off because of some illegal content a while ago, really nothing with DMCA or copyright issues. Some illegal (russian and one from india) companies rented services from us and we announced their ip-space, we did not receive abuse messages and our customers did not take action. We did receive some abuse messages and forwarded them in good trust to our clients, unfortunally they did not take any action.

    After we were cutoff ecatel fixed the problem by kicking out these customers and connected a few new upstream providers. Once the new providers were connected we also informed all our clients that ecatel does not allow the following:

    - spam
    - malware
    - childporn
    - phising

    In case of copyright issues we cannot act, it is not up to us who created a picture/site etc. We cannot decide who has copyright and who has not. If someone has problems with copyright they can e-mail us and we forward the request to our client, but we cannot take action in this case.

    Ecatel uses multiple paths for outside traffic and only a few for incoming traffic. If something happens with one of our bandwidth suppliers we will simply activate more outside paths by advertising our prefixes to more upstreams.

    Further we have someone full-time in service during office hours for abuse e-mails ONLY. I can insure you all abuse e-mails (which are not copyright issues) are handled.

    I hope this answers some questions.
    Last edited by Novogara; 10-01-2009 at 04:50 AM. Reason: many mistakes, bad english but i hope everyone understand what i mean :D

  21. #21
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    The first serious and motivated response from Ecatel in a very long time. I hope you guys keep that up. It is a serious improvement on your normal way of communication.

    In regards to copyright issues, there are many Dutch providers who have clear procedures for copyright holders to prove that they are in fact the copyright holders. It might be time for providers like Ecatel to adopt those procedures, to prove their legitimacy and true concern about what happens on their network.

    In my opinion a provider should act in clearly obvious cases of copyright infringement. Like Warez and Torrent sites that exchange copyrighted warez, movies and music, for example.

    Does Ecatel actively take offline warez sites when they receive complaints?

    I also assume that if you people hear from agencies like BREIN (Anti-piracy) that actually represents a large amount of copyright holders, that action is undertaken immediately by the guy who works on this 'fulltime'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ecatel View Post
    We did receive some abuse messages and forwarded them in good trust to our clients, unfortunally they did not take any action.
    .
    You should have checked up on them, specially since you got this fulltime guy working on abuse issues.
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-01-2009 at 05:06 AM.
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  22. #22
    Just a question guys; when you talk about warez sites - do you include those who just link to files on rapidshare, hotfile and so on? Do you allow those on your network Ecatel?

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phidelio View Post
    Just a question guys; when you talk about warez sites - do you include those who just link to files on rapidshare, hotfile and so on?
    Linking to warez or copyrighted content is NOT allowed according to Dutch law. So no Dutch network can allow it without violating the law.

    The Dutch Anti Piracy movement won every court case until now, that contained linking to warez, coprighted material in any form: links, deeplinks, Torrent and search engine tailored to find copyrighted materials.

    This resulted in that:

    - The sites where taken down
    - The identity of the owner(s) of the site(s) needed to be revealed to the copyright holders.
    - In some cases a damage claim was awarded to the copyright holders.

    Some links:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demonoid
    http://www.slyck.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=43376
    http://www.slyck.com/story1704_Lease...ppeal_to_BREIN

    http://torrentfreak.com/brein-takes-...torrent-sites/
    http://torrentfreak.com/mininova-and...-court-090602/
    http://www.technologylawculture.com/...orrent-server/

    http://torrentfreak.com/anti-piracy-...ndexer-090517/
    http://www.dmwmedia.com/tags/zoekmp3-nl
    Last edited by swiftnoc; 10-01-2009 at 07:35 AM.
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  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Phidelio View Post
    Do you allow those on your network Ecatel?
    Maybe you missed my question.

  25. #25
    So I sent them an abuse email 7 days ago regarding a website which is participating in illegal activity by allowing the sale of stolen credit cards and hacked website account logins. We all know Ecatel are one of the top providers to host your illegal piracy websites (while they profit from it) but I think hosting websites for carding activities is illegal in any country.

    Stolen PayPal accounts:
    Stolen Amazon accounts with cards:
    Stolen Rapidshare accounts:
    And much more ...
    Phishing and hacking tutorials:
    Stolen password dumps ...

    <<removed, in case they get back on line>>


    As you can see this website has a market place which allows users to sell stolen Paypal accounts, Amazon accounts with cards attached, and so on.

    Ecatel have already proved their ignorance towards piracy by stating they have no control over what's on their servers, do not take action and continue to host some of the most notorious piracy websites online.
    Last edited by bear; 10-10-2009 at 12:12 PM.

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