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  1. #1

    Best way to sue Servage

    Hello,

    I am a customer of Servage for more than 3 years. During those 3 years, I had many problems with them:

    - They published my personal data (personal phone number, personal address of my house, …) on WHOIS instead of my company data. They took 3 months to update the correct data despite my daily messages.
    - Their servers were hacked 3 times so my website got “defaced” 3 times. They first accused me and then they admitted that their servers were hacked and many customers were concerned.
    - I had many technical problems: website down, SMTP server down, FTP server down, … In fact, their website (servage.net) is down quite often!
    - I now have a message on the index of my website saying “suspended for non payment”. My credit card was stolen 3 weeks ago and I didn’t have the time to update it in the Servage Control Panel. It’s done now and I paid the balance but the message is still there for 3 hours despite my numerous messages to their support team. Servage never informed me that a payment was due and they were going to publish such a bad message for our company’s image. They are now VERY slow to correct their mistake.

    I have some time and a very handy lawyer I can use to sue Servage. I was planning to do that for a while so I accumulated all proofs (website screenshots, support conversations, …) during those 3 years. My lawyer is quite confident with the issue of this trial given all the bad things that happened to us with Servage.

    Did anyone here sue Servage before? What do you advise me to get the highest compensation for damages caused by Servage?

    Thanks in advance for any help

  2. #2
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    I am sorry you had all these troubles.

    I have seen some posts here from other servage customers having similar issues.

    But, wouldn't it easier to just move when problems started? Why you keep using their services for so long?

  3. #3
    Yoy have been having troubles with them for the almost 3 years with them but you still with them. You are extra loyal customer then. anyways there is should be the other part of the story which could spotlight this story in full

  4. #4
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    Why ask us when you already have legal counsel?

  5. #5
    Hello CretaForce and thanks for your quick answer.

    Seeing the situation now, you are probably right; I should have left Servage for a while. The reason I stayed is because they moved my website to other clusters after having big problems. I was then confident I would be OK but I was obviously wrong.

    Did you hear about any other customer suing them? I will now leave Servage but I want them to pay for all what they did.

  6. #6
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    I will now leave Servage but I want them to pay for all what they did.
    Best advice is to move on. If they do not owe you per not living up to any agreement is one thing, I think the only thing that will be accomplished is you spending more money "making them pay". I'm sure your attorney will tell you the same.

  7. #7
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    You won't be able to sue them. Don't waste your money
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  8. #8
    Did you hear about any other customer suing them? I will now leave Servage but I want them to pay for all what they did.
    I suppose that would be good idea to google for that or do some search in here
    Good luck

  9. #9
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    You wont get anything sueing a $6.95 per month host, in compensation what would you get? a proportional of the 3 hours of downtime? maybe less than $1.
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  10. #10
    Thanks all for your answers.

    I know I should have left them way before. I was upset every times my website was down but when it was up 1 or 2 hours later and I was snoozing to leave them to another date and so on…

    I don’t plan to sue them for the down times. This is a very cheap host and the SLA doesn’t guarantee the uptime. I want to sue them because:
    - They published my personal data (personal phone number, personal house address) to the WHOIS database. This data was the second result if you searched our name on Google. We are a commercial website and I had plenty of people calling me on my personal phone outside the office hours because of Servage. I informed them immediately but they took more than 3 months to fix it.

    - They are now publishing a message “suspended for non-payment” on my website while I don’t owe them anything. In this financial crisis, customers and suppliers will think we are another company that can’t pay their debts while we don’t owe anything to Servage (the stolen credit card was replaced and the balance was has been paid)

    My lawyer knows the law but I am asking if anyone already sued them because I might get useful pieces of advices from people who were in my situation.

    Thanks in advance for any help

  11. #11
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    Again, you're not going to be able to sue them.

    Have a good day.
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  12. #12
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    From what I can see, your case is far far far from being lawsuit worthy. Don't waste your time.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsym View Post
    Thanks all for your answers.

    I know I should have left them way before. I was upset every times my website was down but when it was up 1 or 2 hours later and I was snoozing to leave them to another date and so on…

    I don’t plan to sue them for the down times. This is a very cheap host and the SLA doesn’t guarantee the uptime. I want to sue them because:
    - They published my personal data (personal phone number, personal house address) to the WHOIS database. This data was the second result if you searched our name on Google. We are a commercial website and I had plenty of people calling me on my personal phone outside the office hours because of Servage. I informed them immediately but they took more than 3 months to fix it.

    - They are now publishing a message “suspended for non-payment” on my website while I don’t owe them anything. In this financial crisis, customers and suppliers will think we are another company that can’t pay their debts while we don’t owe anything to Servage (the stolen credit card was replaced and the balance was has been paid)

    My lawyer knows the law but I am asking if anyone already sued them because I might get useful pieces of advices from people who were in my situation.

    Thanks in advance for any help
    The whois info lists the information given by you when purchasing the domain on your acct.

    You would have to ask them why they suspended the account as it is pure speculation on your end.

    I still believe the best way to vote for a host is with your pocketbook. Trying to sue someone over the matters above is a lost cause and will only cause you to waste time and money in my opinion.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsym View Post
    My lawyer knows the law but I am asking if anyone already sued them because I might get useful pieces of advices from people who were in my situation.
    Dont bother, you will more than likely lose, and even if you do win you will end up paying more than you win.

  15. #15
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    If you have a lawyer then you don't need to ask here.

    Easy.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by DephNet[Paul] View Post
    Dont bother, you will more than likely lose, and even if you do win you will end up paying more than you win.
    Usually, the lawyer expenses are “included” in the compensation.

    By the way, we are in France but Servage is in Germany so the German law applies. This is also a reason why I am looking for pieces of advises because the German law might be different

  17. #17
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    The lawyer expenses are only included if you win, which you won't.
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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsym View Post
    Usually, the lawyer expenses are “included” in the compensation.
    My first two words still stand.

    Dont bother.

  19. #19
    Thanks for your thoughts. I am really hesitating now because most of you advise me to give up. Servage published my personal data without my agreement and I can proof that. That is illegal.
    Considering your messages, I’ll ask the lawyer if he can take this case “on result” (it means I wouldn’t pay anything if I loose).

  20. #20
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    Good Luck, time to close this thread!
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  21. #21
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    Has your lawyer actually sat down and looked over the terms of service you agreed to? Discussed sections and things where you limited their liability? Even if you win... you're looking at about winning $252. I can't imagine your lawyer taking up your cause for a percentage of that.

    The question to ask is not who has sued who... but who has done so and won. Your replies will be quite non-existant. The short version of this is simply as stated "Don't bother".

  22. #22
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    They are now VERY slow to correct their mistake.
    Actually, the failure to update your account data is not their mistake. Their notice emails could have very well not reached you for all sorts of reasons.

    If getting everything up and running (and getting that unpleasant message off your site) is that important to you, and you have access to control your domain name (change nameservers), just change hosts and put up a message that you're under maintenance.

    As for the suing thing, you need the advice of German lawyers. It is doubtful that the effort will be worth it.

  23. #23
    - “Lightwave”: yes we reviewed the Terms and Services. It is not written they would publish my PERSONAL data without my agreement. Also, it is not written that they would publish a message such as “suspended for non-payment” in case there is a problem with the credit card.

    - “ldcdc”: They host my email addresses so they would know if there was a problem!  Also I have no control of my website at present (FTP doesn’t work). I asked them to replace the message with a “maintenance message” this morning but they didn’t do it until now.

    Anyway, thanks all for your answers (I didn’t expect so many quick answers!). I’ll wait for the reply from the lawyer to make the right choice.

  24. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by macsym View Post
    Anyway, thanks all for your answers (I didn’t expect so many quick answers!). I’ll wait for the reply from the lawyer to make the right choice.
    Let us know how everything goes for you.

  25. #25
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    They have every right to suspend your account, you were late, by your own words, in paying. How is it their fault it takes you over 10 days to get a new cred card because your old one was stolen; you even did not communicate this with them - I bet if you had they would have given you the time.

    If this website is commerical in nature, why are you paying by your own credit card? When signing up you supplied them with the information for whois and the name on the credit card probably supported their decision.

    Quiet frankly, you have little chance of winning. What amount are you going to sue because of the whois error, which seems to be your mistake. It seems their email had problems, if this was soo important, why not call, email different department for help because they aren't replying in the other email, or use their ticket system.

    If your lawyer is telling you he can win, or he guarantees this, seek new counsel. No lawyer can guarantee or predict anything. Anything can happen, this is taught in first year law.

  26. #26
    Hello,

    - The credit card is our company credit card (not mine).
    - It is absolutely impossible to call them. I tried the phone on WHOIS (+4946116098358) but it doesn't work. I also asked their phone number to the support but they don't give it...

  27. #27
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    It is not written they would publish my PERSONAL data without my agreement
    Again, I think you are completely confused here. Domain Whois data is not considered personal data and it is by law required to be accurate. If you purchased the domain through the host in question they would use the information contained in the hosting account.

  28. #28
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    This post is continuing to go down the drain...

  29. #29
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    FWIW, always register domains yourself, so you can control whois data.
    Order privacy service on it if it's that important to you.

    A host should have no tie to your domain (even if they offer a free domain / or offer to register for you). Just do it yourself. It would at least save that much headache.
    A host has no reason to be on any of your domain control anyway. Unnecessary, complicates things, and just gives them one more thing to hold over your head should you decide to leave.
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  30. #30
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    I have to agree with the others, you don't have much chance of winning.

    As for the whois information. If it's a business site, with a business credit card, they never should have had your "personal" information to begin with, unless you gave it to them, which wouldn't have been necessary for the registration of the domain, nor for obtaining hosting. Since the registrars are required by law to post valid whois info for the registrant, and the information you gave them was personal information, you can't use them for using it.

    As for the site suspension with the notice that it was for non-payment. I'd bet money their TOS states they will suspend sites for non-payment and that's entirely your responsibility to ensure you have paid. You can't sue them for your mess up in not ensuring that every place that had auto payments going on your old card were updated with the new information.

    They are well within their rights to keep the site suspended until they got the all clear that told them they were for sure getting payment. Could have been worse, it could have taken them longer.
    Last edited by LadySDevil; 07-23-2009 at 02:28 AM.

  31. #31
    i hosted with servage for 3month back in 2004, i remember carefully that their SMTP and FTP was down several times and it seems they didn't fix it yet !
    anyway, try to contact them by email , they reply emails so quickly ,

    i think it's better changing you web host instead of complaining
    them, as it seems they didn't fix their problems after 5 years , so it's better to change your host ASAP!

  32. #32
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    They published my personal data (personal phone number, personal address of my house, …) on WHOIS instead of my company data. They took 3 months to update the correct data despite my daily messages.
    I suppose when you register a domain you should provide with some data (name surname adress, email...). What's wrong if they published? They had to.
    Bad thing is - they delayed with update. Bad enough for them, but not a reason to sue.

    Their servers were hacked 3 times so my website got “defaced” 3 times. They first accused me and then they admitted that their servers were hacked and many customers were concerned.
    The only thing you could sue, but once again, it consider every option.

    - I had many technical problems: website down, SMTP server down, FTP server down, … In fact, their website (servage.net) is down quite often!
    You could ask for refund.

    - I now have a message on the index of my website saying “suspended for non payment”. My credit card was stolen 3 weeks ago and I didn’t have the time to update it in the Servage Control Panel. It’s done now and I paid the balance but the message is still there for 3 hours despite my numerous messages to their support team. Servage never informed me that a payment was due and they were going to publish such a bad message for our company’s image. They are now VERY slow to correct their mistake.
    Sorry, it was your fault. if your cc was stolen and you failed to update it. You should have contacted them (I suppose they do have live chat/support tickets/email requsts?) and inform about it.

    In my opinion, you can sue them only because of hacking, but you should take a look on how does such legal process usually end etc.

  33. #33
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    I don't think they meant to post your information in the whois database since this is default in domain registrar and you need to provide correct information or you can just ask them to enable privacy protection.

    It is not their fault.

    Your lawyer just want your money and he is happy to do it :-) Not to mention, you will never win and if they(servage) win, they can also ask big amount of money.... careful that!

    Don't waste it. Move on!
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  34. #34
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    Sorry to hear about your experiences.

    The reason you don't have a case against them is because they will protect themselves via their TOS (well, most companies will).

    Now I haven't browsed to their site and taken a look at it but they are most likely covered from head to toe.

    Unless the situation was severe (if you directly suffered tremendous amounts of damages) then you could possibly have a case against them. This is rare and most people simply move on to a better host.

  35. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by CretaForce View Post

    But, wouldn't it easier to just move when problems started? Why you keep using their services for so long?
    Yes he is right.
    Hmm maybe from the beginning your plan was to sue Severage

  36. #36
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    Half of the people posting in this topic don't have a clue of German law it's nothing like United States or United Kingdom that's for sure... and... You can sue for mostly Anything in Germany... been there done that

    You are webhosts for goodness sake... Start acting like one instead of acting like a lawyer.

  37. #37
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    and it is by law required to be accurate
    Is it an actual law governing that? It think it's more of an ICANN imposed rule, which is not the same thing.

    The problem is not the chance of winning in court. Even if there is a real chance for that, the awarded amount might not be worth it. There is also a lot of time that this endeavor would require, which no one is going to pay for. Sometimes the best thing to do is to move forward, and hope that karma will set things right.
    Last edited by ldcdc; 07-23-2009 at 05:39 AM.

  38. #38
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    I don't think you have a snowball's chance in hell of successfully suing in this instance and it doesn't make any good commercial or financial sense to attempt it. It would be a fool's errand and a complete waste of valuable time and money.

    Not only would I change hosts fast but I'd also change your lawyer. For future reference, the whois information is always 100% the domain registrant's responsibility as is determining the best time to leave a host who is insufficiently performing. The lost credit card issue and subsequent suspension notice is normal procedure although the provider always has the option of being flexible at their sole discretion. Best wishes.
    Last edited by Mach4-Chris; 07-23-2009 at 06:27 AM.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by macsym View Post
    Thanks all for your answers.

    I know I should have left them way before. I was upset every times my website was down but when it was up 1 or 2 hours later and I was snoozing to leave them to another date and so on…

    I don’t plan to sue them for the down times. This is a very cheap host and the SLA doesn’t guarantee the uptime. I want to sue them because:
    - They published my personal data (personal phone number, personal house address) to the WHOIS database. This data was the second result if you searched our name on Google. We are a commercial website and I had plenty of people calling me on my personal phone outside the office hours because of Servage. I informed them immediately but they took more than 3 months to fix it.

    - They are now publishing a message “suspended for non-payment” on my website while I don’t owe them anything. In this financial crisis, customers and suppliers will think we are another company that can’t pay their debts while we don’t owe anything to Servage (the stolen credit card was replaced and the balance was has been paid)

    My lawyer knows the law but I am asking if anyone already sued them because I might get useful pieces of advices from people who were in my situation.

    Thanks in advance for any help
    First off, I really dislike Steffan. So Servage gives me a horrible taste in my mouth but I still have to be fair and call this ridiculous.

    Your account was suspended due to non-payment. It's within their right to suspend your account and post the suspension notice.

    WHOIS data is just like court house records for your company name, LLC, or corporation registration. It's public data.

    You also understand that if you're in the US, it's going to be a little more expensive and difficult than you realize. Servage is a EU-based company.

    Any legal counsel worth a grain of salt would have told you to cut your losses and find a new hosting company.
    Last edited by FiberPeer; 07-23-2009 at 09:19 AM.
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  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by SecureGrid View Post
    Half of the people posting in this topic don't have a clue of German law it's nothing like United States or United Kingdom that's for sure... and... You can sue for mostly Anything in Germany... been there done that

    You are webhosts for goodness sake... Start acting like one instead of acting like a lawyer.
    US isn't much different here. I could sue you because your shirt is yellow and I don't like the color.

    Key word: could

    I'd lose here like I'd lose there.
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