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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    London & Kent, UK
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    2checkout - when good goes bad

    You maybe know what it's like - you use a company and they seem fine. You read the complaints and the swearing from others but think it'll never happen to you. Maybe you even write and say "Hey, stop it! I've been with them for 18 months and it's all been great".

    Well I'd been with 2checkout for a few months and yes, pretty much it's been ok for me too. Sure there's no phone contact, they look rather unprofessional (the expiry date for credit cards still starts at 2001 and not 2002, (lol), the payment screen *requires* javascript etc.), and the site navigation is broken, but hey, to paraphrase a popular saying "You don't get what you don't pay for", and they're only $49 to sign up and no recurring charges. I can live with the weaknesses, and email help has been pretty good from Kristin and Tom.

    But now things went bad. Nearly $4400 just vanished from my account as of Nov 1, and without warning or explanation. No payment made to me (according to the site), and the funds aren't retained on account either. So, I raise a support ticket with a polite and courteous message and wait 24 hours. No response. I email Kristin. She's pretty chirpy and helpful. No response. Hmm. I try support@ as well. No response. Now nearly 48 hours still no response. You know - suddenly things look just a little less rosy and the doubts are starting to set in at this point.

    Tired and frustrated at 12.45am, but still optimistic that the issue will get resolved, an Australian customer phones me in London. "The 2checkout SSL server is down and I couldn't place my order". Ok - now things really do look bad. The double wammy - let's also lose this guys money with failed servers and lost orders. Well I'm sure it's nothing personal, and thankfully I have PayPal as well for a last ditch backup, and the guy was cool about it. Cheers Steve - I owe you a pint.

    But I'm left wondering what's next, and that little more eager to get my nearly $4400 back and on this side of the pond pdq.

    So I guess things do look good when everythings working, and it's indeed easy to keep the faith when everything's ticking along automatically as it should. It's when things start to fall apart that the true strength of a company starts to show, or in this case, its big weaknesses.

    After also reading the comments here from others about 2checkout over the last few days, and having passed my first $10K in sales, maybe it's time to start DD again in preparation to bail, and head for the next level in payment processors, whomever, or whatever, that happens to be.

    UPDATE: Finally I managed to chat with Kristin, who to be fair is helpful, and one of her colleagues had also suggested a course of action to remedy this. But, that said, the account details are still not accurate but provided the correct monies transfer then that's not so bad, and the account will probably right itself at the next period. Now I've looked further at proper merchant accounts, they really seem to be the best thing and will save a few thousands in fees. I didn't realise the benefits until now.

    Last edited by phpa; 11-08-2002 at 05:25 PM.

  2. #2
    It seems that 2checkout has detioriated over the past month or so. I am having this problem with my first customer, like he was charged, and i only got part of the money, somehow his setup fee got credited, he was still charged the full amount, and i got the partial amount!!!! I e-mailed, submitted a trouble ticket, and even called them ("Someone will call you in 24 to 48 hours")!!! i dont call that phone support, just someone taking a message that nobody calls back on? I thought 2checkout was better than this, all i have to say is im gonna submit another troubleticket tommorrow, and if it doesnt get resolved, im going to have to contact my local governments consumer affairs department (who is some of the best people in my local government!!!!!!! they get stuff resolved fast and good due to the laws that my county/state has).

    p.s. Im not trying to bash 2checkout, i would just like my problem resolved and for them to improve themselves. If you pay someone to answer phones and to take messages, why dont you have someone that can acutally help instead?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    TO, Canada
    Posts
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    I have had problems with only half of the money being released to us.

    I have submitted a ticket six days ago, and am still awaiting a response. No reply from Tom either.

    Hopefully it will get resolved soon.
    Evo-Dev - software products

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sillicon Valley
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    $700 has vanished from our total payment which was supposed to be made on november 1st. I cantacted them and have been ignored since.

    What are they thinking ? NO matter how many times we call them the same answering machine comes up that all reps are busy assisting other customers "yeah right" !!

    They have been very unprofessional specially that they ignore all contacts. One of their reps was on our case, as soon we we provided them with evidence on the mis-calculations they have not contacted us ever since no matter how many emails we've sent her(them).

  5. #5
    I'd better keep an eye on my a/c

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    311
    After what I've read here and on their forums, I'm almost ready to close my account. It seems as though many customers are having a lot of issues with them right now.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    London & Kent, UK
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    372
    These are definitely warning signs, and not just indicative of transient problems, or upgrades etc. More like impending redundancies. Whether they pull through or not, something's wrong. Even though it's a pain and costly, setting up an exit strategy by getting an account elsewhere up and running is probably wise.

    I suggested to someone in one reply on the 2checkout forum that they contact the better business bureau as I have done, and so that a complaint is filed. Strangely enough that thread seems to have disappeared when I checked this mornng from their forums.

    Filing a complaint should a) be investigated if properly filed, and b) add weight to any litigation against the company now, or in the future. It's harder for a company to defend its position and say that a complaint is an isolated case if the bbb have a record of complaints.

    The bbb is here

    It only takes a few seconds to file, and should be investiagated by the local bbb office. In this case,

    BBB of Central Ohio, Inc.
    1335 Dublin Road, #30-A
    Columbus, OH 43215 -1000
    Phone: (614)486-6336
    Fax: (614)486-6631
    Email: [email protected]
    WWW: http://www.columbus-ohbbb.org

    I've always been happy up until now as I said in my first post. But when there are no replies to emails, not even to say that it might take a few days to investigate, and money vanishes, not just partial payments, irrespective of whether things have been good in the past it's really a good indication that there is a problem.

    Are They Profitable?

    I also wondered whether 2checkout are that profitable. Processed monies are about 36Mio this year, with perhaps 500K to 1Mio in signup fees, 5.5% + the 45 cents per transaction before their own merchant account costs, payroll, etc. doesn't amount to a huge income.

    Being taken over by another cmpany is probably the best outcome for them, given that there's aparantly no motivation from within to correct the weaknesses. With probably 3 months work, the problems with their site, the bugs in their scripts, their technology, and most importantly, the customer support issues could be dealt with, and a more viable enterprise could be born. I recognised the potential for them to be a leader when I signed up a few months ago, accepting the technology flaws but expecting to see a dynamic company that was keen on ironing them out and kicking the butt of the bigger boys.

    But in reality I made a bad trade, and they apparantly don't have the vision, or one assumes, the ability to pull it off. To someone who does, it's really a great shame to see this.
    Last edited by phpa; 11-08-2002 at 08:22 AM.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    TO, Canada
    Posts
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    Im more concerned with the partial payment problem.

    With a complete payment it might have been some billing error which they mishandled. Partial payments beg the question of why only some went through when the rest didnt?
    Evo-Dev - software products

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    London & Kent, UK
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    Indeed. Although in my case it's not a total payment that's gone, it's over 75% of all the funds that I took in the last 2 weeks across a number of transactions that have gone. That's a great return for them

    If one takes my current statement of account balance with them at face value, it's theft.
    Last edited by phpa; 11-08-2002 at 08:19 AM.

  10. #10

    *

    Just curious, why don't you guys get a real Merchant account instead of 3rd party? I know the 3rd Party ones are cheap to start, but a deal such as Costco/ION Gate.. I think its only about 150 to get started....

    I signed up for 2checkout, and will be getting my money back (within 30 days), and plan on signing up with Costco/IONGATE.

    If your selling that much, you should probably do the same, no?

    Take care!
    Ryan

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jan 2001
    Location
    Kihei, HI
    Posts
    576
    I'm surprised to hear your having so much trouble with 2checkout.com. We've been with them about a year now and have been very happy with the service.

    Granted, we too had a customer contact us regarding the recent SSL problem, but it was resolved just minutes later.

    We've never had a problem with getting prompt payment and their fraud detection is excellent. We've had only 5 chargebacks all year on thousands of credit card charges.

    All in all, I'm very pleased with their service and I would recommend them. Hopefully they can get your issues resolved for you ASAP.

    Thanks - Brian
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  12. #12
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    London & Kent, UK
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    Thanks Brian and Ryan, and I agree with you both.

    On Merchant accounts, that's a great idea. I just checked iongate.com and that looks good. (Although their homepage said they had problems after moving hosting provider). A g/f suggested the same last night, and getting closer to the heart of the t/p infrastructure makes lots of sense. I didn't realise that was possible until now, and assumed one had to use people like 2checkout, although I was aware of cybercash. Coming from designing trading systems and order routing technology for banks, this feels far better. Then I don't have to deal with the unnecessary infrastructure that's provided by 2checkout - which is basically all of it - when the cart, and other technologies are all on my own site anyway. As my own company is ioncube.com, maybe the similar name is a good omen

    I too had had no problems with 2checkout, and I've never had problems with the much maligned PayPal either. But the true test isn't when things work, it's when things don't

    Problems with the system aside, and it is shabby but adequate, things would be a million times better if customer service was addressed, even if there were the same number of problems.

    Today I received this compliment:

    Many thanks for your help. Your support really is outstanding !!

    and I get these every week. Why? Because I give friendly, genuine and timely responses that are accurate. This was a customer error, but I won't ignore them or be sarcastic. I'll do whatever it takes to resolve the issue for them. It gives people a warm feeling to know that someone cares and is taking charge of the problem. It's unlikely at the moment at least that 2checkout will ever see a compliment like that.

    Bottom line - sometimes s**t happens, that's just life, and I accept that, not least because I would hope that people would be patient with me if I screw up. But you have to let customers know what's going on, and of course it does help to fix the problem as well. This is particularly where 2checkout are falling down, big time.
    Last edited by phpa; 11-08-2002 at 01:02 PM.
    Real-time intrusion protection and error reporting for PHP sites ioncube24.com
    Software protection for website owners and PHP developers ionCube PHP Encoder

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sillicon Valley
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    2checkout is good for small accounts which you can easily control and know whats going on, other than that I dont trut them any more and I think we should go through every single payment and recurring billing. As phpa mentioned I name it theft as well, specially that they ignore all our contacts afterwards.

    And the reason we went with 2checkout was to take off some work that the real merchant accounts require, we never new it takes more work to keep an eye on what 2checkout does and what doesnt. Now we are indeed looking for alternatives.

    Thank You

  14. #14
    The problem i have with 2 checkout is they hold funds without telling me. For example the admin screen says the money was transfered to my bank, and i call my bank and no money is there. I think created an issue with 2checkout asking where the money is and they said it was witheld and closed the issue.

    I re-opened ofcourse and asked why it says it was successfully transfered if they are indeed holding it for whatever reason and they have yet to answer.

    Billing is the backend of any business, and no business can operate if the merchant holds receivables for an entire month. How can any business prove to an auditer any receivables based on the way 2checkout has proven to not pay out on time or completely or atleast notify of why they're not paying out.

    strange.

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    TO, Canada
    Posts
    126
    Anybody get word? Its friday, and they are gone until Monday again
    Evo-Dev - software products

  16. #16

    Angry Also Missing Monies

    I called them too I also showed monies missing...on day the balance is $xxxxx the next day its -XXX....anyone know whats going on put a ticket in no answer yet 2 days

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Boston
    Posts
    5,010
    Usually they monitor WHT, I would hope Tom or someone will come around and answer some questions soon.. I have had no probs yet with 2checkout deposits/orders have been going through fine for us but it kinda makes it uneasy to sleep at night knowing all this is going on with no response at all from 2co..

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Nov 2001
    Posts
    5,383
    I had the same problem ($300 dollars went missing)

    2Checkout.com Support Ticket Reply.
    DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL
    To update or view the status of your ticket please follow link at the bottom of this ticket.


    There were several accounts that had added recurring sales from last paycycle into this paycycle making account balances appear to be more than they actually were. On 11-1-02 the glitch was corrected. Therefore the amount that is currently posted is the correct balance.

    Thank you,
    _______________________________
    Tellie
    2Checkout.com
    Clustered Hosting With Continuous Data Protection (CDP)
    http://www.solidinternet.com
    8 Years of hosting excellence!

  19. #19
    I'm glad I'm not the only one ... In the pay period ending 11-01-2002 I lost $200 - $300. I'm not sure if it was their Pending Transactions columns that were faulty and reported a higher number than what I actually had but I was quite surprised when the Sales Dollars Processed was a good $200 less than what I was expecting.

    Their support didn't really seem inclined to look into the problem and suggested that I tell them which transactions I thought I wasn't paid for

    I'd like to see what comes of this, I think an explanation of some sort is in order.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Posts
    56

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Delray Beach, FL
    Posts
    254
    I highly recommend WellsFargo. They utilize the Authorize.net or VeriSign Gateways and the pricing and features are unbeatable:

    http://www.wellsfargosecure.com/

    This really is horrible that such a problem is occuring. Good luck with your 2checkout accounts....
    Gregory A, Van Horn
    President/Senior Web Developer
    Transcend Media Interactive Development & Marketing Group

  22. #22
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Edmonton, Canada
    Posts
    978
    Originally posted by Myacen
    I had the same problem ($300 dollars went missing)
    Didn't go missing. We had the same issue in late October where a payment was made twice by accident. 2Checkout did a lot of these that month and with most grievances here I'd check your past 2 month's statements to ensure double billing wasn't the cause of your problem.

    (our current account balance went from a huge positive to a negative with the error correction)

    For 90% of the hosts who caruse these forums 2Checkout is a good buy. The extra ~2% you pay per transaction puts another set of eyes on the purchase to minimize chargebacks, it's simple to implement, and when things are running fine it's just as good as a full merchant account. Obviously some staffers have to get on the ball with accidental payments and not being thorough with responses - we're merchants not mind readers - but overall for $49 bucks it's hard to go wrong.

    Sincerely,

    -Matt

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Sillicon Valley
    Posts
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    Robert @ MyAcen

    Tellies told us the same things, we went through every single sale and previous recurring charges and found that its really missing. We provided her the numbers as they should be and never heard from her again. So I siggest you go over everything once.

    Regards

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    rules.php
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    I too have had troubles with 2checkout and will never recommend them to anyone.

    I am missing my 1/11 payment and have tried to contact them however no reply as usually. This is not the first time either.

    Also when refunding start up fees ther is a bug however 2checkout will not accept it and do nothing.

    I really wonder why tom or anyone else at 2checkout are not taking these things seriously? It makes me think that they may be in serious trouble, as stated they dont make much money as a company, maybe this is the start of the end of 2checkout.

    I for one am moving from 2checkout.
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  25. #25
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    TO, Canada
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    I finally got a reply on my ticket ... which I submitted on November 1.

    This was the reply: [I asked about why there was missing money]
    Our fees are:
    5.5% + $0.45 per transaction.
    One time $49.00 enrollment fee
    No monthly or annual charges.

    For more information:
    http://www.2checkout.com/faqs.htm

    Thank you
    .... sigh ... completely avoided the topic
    Last edited by AhmedF; 11-12-2002 at 06:30 PM.
    Evo-Dev - software products

  26. #26
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    I also got a reply to my ticket 2 days after it was submitted saying they have sent a message to the bank confirming the payment.

    God how can this happen so many times :-(
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  27. #27
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
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    Sillicon Valley
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    we havent got a response yet

  28. #28
    Hmm...I was thinking of 2Checkout...but reading this thread I'll maybe consider paying for a gateway with a higher set-up fee.

    It's the reported [lack of] support issue I find most worrying.

  29. #29
    Originally posted by I, Brian
    It's the reported [lack of] support issue I find most worrying. [/B]
    I've been with 2CheckOut for about 8 months, and like most everyone else it's a case of "when good goes bad". I mean, it'd be okay if at some point they resolve your tickets and problems and admit they were slow, admit they make mistakes... but they don't at all. In fact, I find them terribly defensive, rude, and pretty much uncaring to their customers and clients.

    I understand they're busy implementing their new something or other, however I've never had a ticket or e-mail replied to in less than 48 hours. And, each reply is either very rude and discourteous or a "looking into it, we'll get back to you" type thing, which of course, they never do.

    I appreciate these types of posts. As much as I dread switching credit card processors just due to the amount of changes I'll have to make to my website, at this point in time anything would be better than staying with 2CheckOut. I'd much rather take my business to a company who actually wants it.

  30. #30
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    well said VurtKonnegut

    I agree totally
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  31. #31
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    4,028
    Well, I usually try and avoid these threads as I often feel they do not pertain to me... but what the hell eh!

    I was just sent my first 2checkout check today and it couldn't have come at a better time... couple phones bills came due, visa, etc...

    I open it up, it's the right amount, I was happy until I got down to the bank.... THE GOD DAMN PAYABLE TO NAME WAS WRONG... MY GOD!

    I just submitted my ticket today, so hopefully I'll have a response by late December or early January... I honestly would've recommended them up until this point, but I am rather very worried and uncomfortable at the moment.

    If someone wouldn't mind posting the phone # please.

    Thanks,
    Jeff

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    North America
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    1,229
    Mekhu, how "wrong" is the name? A minor misspelling, or totally utterly stuffed up? Depending on how wrong it is, your bank may still cash it, especially if you have documents that can show that, yes, it's yours. For example, is there a 2checkout merchant ID number on the cheque? And do you have any email that couples this merchant ID number with any other personal information that is linked to you, such as your snailmail address? Print out this email and take it to the bank.

    Best of luck resolving the screwup. That would make me so infuriated...

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    4,028
    I may give that a shot tomorrow, but as of right now, My name is "Jeff Piper" and Payable to is made out to a "Dana M."

    Mekhu

  34. #34
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    323
    Don't bother then ... A minor mispelling could probably have been worked around. That's more like 10 minor mispellings, in a row.
    - prime [[email protected]]
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  35. #35
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    Aug 2001
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    lol

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    West Michigan, USA
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    Anyone else get the Daily Reports email for 11-14-2002?? Mine says Sales Recorded as ZERO....when I know we had ALOT that day (yesterday). ARGH!

    --Tina
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  37. #37
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
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    Yup, you're 100% correct! Ours is reading as the same...

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    4,028
    Just got an email that my Check has been fixed and re-issued!

    Mekhu

  39. #39
    Originally posted by AffordableHost
    Anyone else get the Daily Reports email for 11-14-2002?? Mine says Sales Recorded as ZERO....when I know we had ALOT that day (yesterday). ARGH!

    --Tina
    Same here, no recorded sales even though there were some. No recurring sales ran today even though there should be.

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    West Michigan, USA
    Posts
    9,675
    I'm trying to figure out, without the help of my accounting person (argh), did the sales actually post to our balance, with 2checkout...or is it just the email notification that had the zero amount???

    --Tina
    ||| 99.999% Uptime SLA!!!
    Plenty of space and bandwidth to fit your needs!
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