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  1. #1
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    Is Google Wave our demise?

    So my brother-in-law tells me to go check out "Google Wave" and spend an hour+ watching this video because he was so excited about how neat it was and how it's the future and how he's going to start using it. As I watched it, I had a different take on it...While it's very impressive (which doesn't surprise me at all), I was finding it somewhat disheartening and discouraging, as though it might be the end of my (long term) web hosting career.

    I'm not a guy that usually thinks the cup is half empty, but Google has just got me down this afternoon. What do other hosting companies and people in the web hosting industry think of this? I mean, I know we don't have anything to worry about in the next 2-3 years because the current market is very tied to their cpanel accounts, email, ftp and what not. but what about 5-10 years. I already have many clients updating their domain's dns to google apps and gmail. If Google Gobbles up the market, where does that leave us web hosters? We can't all work for google can we? lol! Let me know your thoughts.

    http://wave.google.com/

    And trust me, I'm not whining, I'm just trying to start an interesting thread that relates to all of our futures.
    Last edited by sven30; 06-22-2009 at 04:34 PM.

  2. #2
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    I think the webhosting industry will evolve enough to keep the market.
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  3. #3
    Hopefully it will turn out like Google Instant Messenger.... who the heck uses that anyways...

    Unfortunately, it seems with wave they have actually innovated and brought something new to the table...

    We shall see how this pans out :-/

  4. #4
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    From looking at the preview page, Google Wave just sounds like the next generation of message boards. I didn't watch the video though so maybe I'm missing something.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha View Post
    From looking at the preview page, Google Wave just sounds like the next generation of message boards. I didn't watch the video though so maybe I'm missing something.
    Yeah, there's a whole website/blog interface that's completely and automatically updated by users and site owners, almost with streaming content. It's easy, integrated into wave, fast, looks really good and unfortunately very impressive.
    Last edited by sven30; 06-22-2009 at 05:16 PM.

  6. #6
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    It's just like Google Web Hosting - it's not going to kill the hosting industry but it may make it easier for the "newbies" to get online.
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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by sven30 View Post
    Yeah, there's a whole website/blog interface that's completely and automatically updated by users and site owners, almost with streaming content. It's easy, integrated into wave, fast, looks really good and unfortunately very impressive.
    It looks like a social networking tool with a unique way of presenting (user-generated) data. I can see Google Wave targeting users of Facebook/Twitter/Flickr/(+ other free blog services) that do not need or want to run a site of their own. In the end though there will always be people like me who don't even have a Facebook or Flickr account but run their own blog/site professionally or even as a simple hobby. Besides, it wasn't even a few years ago people were saying that the hosting industry is doomed because of the announcement of Google Apps. If anything, I see Google Apps still being a bigger threat compared to Wave.
    Last edited by alpha; 06-22-2009 at 05:57 PM.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by sven30 View Post
    I'm not a guy that usually thinks the cup is half empty, but Google has just got me down this afternoon. What do other hosting companies and people in the web hosting industry think of this?
    I doubt Google deserves your fatalism. Most big entities cannot compete with smaller companies in terms of customer service and usually general quality.

    (Many) years ago I worked for a dialup ISP and I can recall all the hand-wringing there was among management when Ma Bell got into the dialup business. There was a strong fear that they would kill the mom-and-pop ISP.

    In terms of market share the Bells may have pulled a lot of customers away from the local ISPs, but if anything killed dialup it was broadband not the presence of the Bells in the dialup marketplace itself. Most dialup ISPs either thrived, were consolidated (few dialups weren't approached by numerous "investment groups" like OneMain who went around buying dialup ISPs), or fell to the wayside simply because there were so many or the market just ultimately disappeared.

    In any case, to state the obvious, the web hosting market has changed dramatically in the last 10 years and will continue to change and evolve dramatically in the next 10. I doubt Google, Amazon, etc. will "kill" the smaller providers themselves but it will be missteps by the provider that causes them to shut down.

  9. #9
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    I think it's quite impressive. Taking out the few yet annoying flaws of e-mail and instant messaging and then combining the two into one. However, if I do start using Wave when it's released, it will definitely take some getting use to.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpha View Post
    It looks like a social networking tool with a unique way of presenting (user-generated) data. I can see Google Wave targeting users of Facebook/Twitter/Flickr/(+ other free blog services) that do not need or want to run a site of their own. In the end though there will always be people like me who don't even have a Facebook or Flickr account but run their own blog/site professionally or even as a simple hobby. Besides, it wasn't even a few years ago people were saying that the hosting industry is doomed because of the announcement of Google Apps. If anything, I see Google Apps still being a bigger threat compared to Wave.
    The reason it made me not think it was being built for the FB/Twitter kiddies, but rather a professional networking tool, is because my brother in-law is in IT and is currently working on websites and he was mainly excited about this to use for his profession when it comes out. He was impressed with how fast communication and projects could get done as well as promotions because there will be eyeballs everywhere. it's google. I don't know...

    Regardless... after reading some of these comments I'm definetly not as worried now though. I do also realize organizations like Cpanel and open source communities are really out to help us too and they're huge as well so they'll always be adding impressive tools 5-10 years down the road all the same.

  11. #11
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    That's the thing with Google, little by little. Wave may not cause a massive impact, same with Gmail, Blogger, Docs, Picasa, Apps etc but Google are working to sew the lot in to a GoogleOS running in the Google cloud.. That's when there will be problems, and it will be too late.

    It may seem like a long way off, but it's not.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1boss1 View Post
    That's the thing with Google, little by little. Wave may not cause a massive impact, same with Gmail, Blogger, Docs, Picasa, Apps etc but Google are working to sew the lot in to a GoogleOS running in the Google cloud.. That's when there will be problems, and it will be too late.

    It may seem like a long way off, but it's not.
    Exactly what I'm thinking. Currently Google is making us hosters think they are being helpful to us "the little guy" by providing API's and open source code and docs as well as not really dominating the hosting market for us. But, I think we are just simply last in line to be ousted by their long term takeover. So, let's just keep our eyes open and follow what the big players are doing. I've started investigating and researching cloud for my company mainly because of this. It's competition at its best and worst.

  13. #13
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    Arrow

    From what I can gather this is just an enhanced email/communication system.

    A professional business is not going to put their shop front on Google Wave (I don't even think they can anyway), they will want their own website, they may use it as a tool to help them communicate with their customers however. We could even use it to communicate with our hosting customers. It could even be incredibly helpful for us web hosts, its basically a free live chat system. I see google wave as an attempt to take on facebook, twitter and these people to people communication type trends we are seeing with internet use lately.

    As someone else mentioned - Instant Messaging never really took over anything - this also won't take over anything. It will just enhance communications. Also anywhere there is success and money you can bet there will be competitors come in and provide something similar. Perhaps we could find ourselves adding a wave service to our servers one day, that runs on a different competitor system through new kinds of browsers?

    I don't see this as a threat. Its just a new trend that will give us something more to offer to clients one day.

    In fact probably one of the best uses I can see for it is students doing group projects. All editing a single document together simultaneously. But I don't see this replacing websites and thats mainly what we web hosts provide. Perhaps email hosting will decline?
    Last edited by bjdea1; 06-24-2009 at 02:53 AM.
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  14. #14
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    Arrow

    Here's some interesting info I found on googles pages:
    Wave Providers


    The wave federation protocol enables everyone to become a wave provider and share waves with others. For instance, an organization can operate as a wave provider for its members, an individual can run a wave server as a wave provider for a single user or family members, and an Internet service provider can run a wave service as another Internet service for its users as a supplement to email, IM, ftp, etc. In this model, Google Wave is one of many wave providers.


    A wave provider is identified by its Internet domain name(s).

    Wave users have wave addresses which consist of a user name and a wave provider domain in the same form as an email address, namely <username>@<domain>. Wave addresses can also refer to groups, robots, gateways, and other services. A group address refers to a collection of wave addresses, much like an email mailing list. A robot is an automated participant on a wave (see the robots API). Examples are translation robots and chess game robots. A gateway translates between waves and other communication and sharing protocols such as email and IM. In the remainder we ignore addressees that are services, including robots and gateways - they are treated largely the same as users with respect to federation.


    Wave users access all waves through their wave provider. If a wave has participants from different wave providers, their wave providers all maintain a copy of the wave and serve it to their users on the wave. The wave providers share updates to the wave with each other using the wave federation protocol which we describe below. For any given wave user, it is the responsibility of the wave provider for the user's domain to authenticate the user (using cookies and passwords, etc) and perform local access control.
    So it looks like something we could provide from our servers? Assuming ISP's don't already go ahead and offer it direct to their customers? I'm trying to see a way we Web hosts can take advantage of this new wave system and offer it as a service in our hosting plans perhaps??? As far as I can tell local ISP's (BroadBand providers) would probably not provide a wave service as they are mainly focused on just giving their uses internet access. But they do give their customers an email account and small web space with their internet broadband plans. But no ISP's setup their servers with PHP, Mysql, Apache, etc because their servers are usually flat out just providing basic access. So it would probably be a niche service that Web hosts would end up providing? What so other think? This could actually turn out to be good or us??
    Last edited by bjdea1; 06-24-2009 at 04:41 AM.
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  15. #15
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    Arrow

    Actually when you think about it more this could be ok for us Web Hosts.

    As stated in http://www.waveprotocol.org/draft-protocol-spec :
    A wave provider is identified by its Internet domain name(s).
    Wave users have wave addresses which consist of a user name and a wave provider domain in the same form as an email address, namely <username>@<domain>.
    Ok so that means anyone who wants to be on the wave system under their own domain name will likely be needing a Web Host with a wave server running right?

    Its looking to me that this will end up being another service we'll be running on our servers for our users. Its likely not going to be a threat to us Web Hosts but another service we can offer.
    Last edited by bjdea1; 06-24-2009 at 05:06 AM.
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  16. #16
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    Like most other google apps...it'll be handy app to use.

    Folks shouldn't feel threatened. Think more in the way of how to utilise the app and attract new clients.

    If google had wanted to kill off the hosting industry, they could have done it easily by now.

    Remember, they control what companies show up on google.com and could tweak the results no problem at all.

    owm
    Last edited by Outlaw Web Master; 06-24-2009 at 05:58 AM.
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  17. #17
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    I've just watched the entire video here: http://wave.google.com/ and didn't find any aspect remotely threatening for the hosting industry from any point of view. On the contrary, I see a field of new opportunities and a far richer internet emerging altogether. Far from feeling depressed I find it exciting and affirmative that the hosting industry itself will become an even more essential service sector.
    Last edited by Mach4-Chris; 08-09-2009 at 04:34 PM.

  18. #18
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    Does anyone else feel that the spaceship communication technology that the humans in Wall-E used was actually google wave? Uh oh!
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  19. #19
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    While there are impressive aspects of Wave, I wouldn't call it architecturally sound. The Web is still about HTTP protocol, Wave's solution amounts to JSON-RPC, as all interaction is JSON tunnelled over POST. This goes against the fundamental architecture of the Web. Becoming a "Wave Provider" will be more resource- and bandwidth-intensive than any other form of hosting.

    Which Google, of course, can afford. In reality, I can't see Wikipedia moving to an even more highly-bandwidth-intensive platform than the one they already can barely afford, for the sake of having a "live edit" feature that isn't a must-have beyond intranet groupware. Congratulations to Google for figuring out how to do this without a plugin, but I think this is just the sort of thing which should be a browser plugin, if avoiding one requires a solution that starts by dismissing the fundamental design of the Web.
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  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by alpha View Post
    From looking at the preview page, Google Wave just sounds like the next generation of message boards. I didn't watch the video though so maybe I'm missing something.
    Yes I agree with. I dont see how Google could take the web hosting market.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by hostbite View Post
    Yes I agree with. I dont see how Google could take the web hosting market.
    So you didn't see the portion of the video where you can create a blog/website on the fly and update it in real-time on their cloud? Couple this with an "already established" audience/eyeballs of your choice, this could be difficult to compete against long term.

  22. #22
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    It's still predominantly a social networking tool.

    You can create things to utilise their API, but you still need to buy hosting to host it. Their free App Engine doesn't support many languages people might like to use.

    I have an account on wave sandbox, and have been playing with it a lot lately, it's fun and all, but it's not going to replace servers, proper hosting, etc

    I already have many clients updating their domain's dns to google apps and gmail.
    Be happy you don't need to deal with spam and blacklisting and such, I guess?

  23. #23
    Wave looks very interesting to us IT savy users but I can't see your average small business user waving goodbye (excuse the pun) to their tried and tested email.

    Things are hard enough just keeping their businesses running - let alone having to pay and take time out to retrain staff to use a new comms tool.

    Anyway - I thought Wave relies on all recipients using the same system?
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  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ecenica View Post
    Anyway - I thought Wave relies on all recipients using the same system?
    Doesn't seem too hard to do email <-> wave gateway, or IM <-> wave

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by quantumphysics View Post
    Doesn't seem too hard to do email <-> wave gateway, or IM <-> wave
    Yeh you're right I'm sure this will come about.

    I guess we'll all just have to watch and see how it unfolds. A month is a very long time in the IT world.
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