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  1. #1

    Lightbulb VPS memory at premium prices....

    In my experience, 256MB of is not near enough ram to run a decent site with, much less multiple sites. So why do vps providers still sell vps' with only 256MB of ram?

    In my honest opinion, 512MB should be the very rock-bottom amount of ram available, with 1GB being standard. RAM is cheap, even server ram is cheap, so why is ram treated as a premium for gouging the customer?

    I can live with a few GB's less space if the providers can give me enough ram to effectively run my sites.

  2. #2
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    RAM is a bigger bottleneck on a node than disk space or bandwidth, RAM and CPU availability (though to a degree I/O activity should be included in this) generally dictate the amount of customers a host can place upon a node, hence RAM and CPU usage have such a bearing on price.

    Besides which, a 256MB VPS, even with cPanel on it, should be more than ample for a good few sites, especially if it is optimized and not running intensive sites. It wont be perfect, but it will do the job, just about.

    With a lighter control panel/no control panel, a 256MB VPS will run loads of sites. Also, have you not considered that lower RAM VPS's are not always used for hosting sites?
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  3. #3
    There needs to be a good balance available between processing power and available RAM. Not everyone hosts websites on their VPS, and at times 256MB is just fine for something small.
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  4. #4
    My project I want to start isn't small, and I'm not sure what kind of load it will bring to a vps with 256MB of ram. I don't have any machines locally with that low of a spec to test on. And yes, I'm well aware that you can use a VPS for more than just hosting sites.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    256MB of is not near enough ram to run a decent site
    Define "decent". 256MB (with careful setup) is fine for running multiple low-traffic sites. If your sites need more, isn't it only fair that you should pay more?

    Bear in mind also that in a VPS even "guaranteed" memory can be oversold and some of the low-end providers emphasise burst memory instead - both of these can skew the apparent value of a VPS plan.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by foobic View Post
    Define "decent". 256MB (with careful setup) is fine for running multiple low-traffic sites. If your sites need more, isn't it only fair that you should pay more?
    Yes and no. I can live with lowering the other specs to raise the amount of ram. It's a trade off, so the price should stay the same. I define "decent" as being able to survive the digg or slashdot effect with minor injuries at worst.

    Funny thing about paying more is that I've seen vps' run as high as dedicated servers. Talk about paying more for less.

    Quote Originally Posted by foobic View Post
    Bear in mind also that in a VPS even "guaranteed" memory can be oversold and some of the low-end providers emphasise burst memory instead - both of these can skew the apparent value of a VPS plan.
    I understand this quite well, but overselling isn't in the equation if you go with a reputable company.

  7. #7
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    A 256MB RAM VPS can be used for a development site too. It doesn't mean a VPS is a standard for hosting websites only.

    Yes RAM is cheap nowadays, but don't forget other costs involved in offering the VPS. HD, bandwidth, rackspace, power, IP address, support, CPU and other costs are involved as well. Other than that, if you are getting quality RAM (ECC registered), it isn't as cheap as those in your PC.
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  8. #8
    RAM is getting cheaper in absolute numbers, but as you know hardware platforms which can use a large amounts of RAM are very expensive. And you know that anyone can not increase RAM just like that on their servers.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    A 256MB RAM VPS can be used for a development site too. It doesn't mean a VPS is a standard for hosting websites only.
    Duh.... Read my replies. I've already acknowledged that. I can think of a few off the top of my head.... Voip, file backup, data-mining, file sharing, external proxy, gateway for services, etc... The list goes on.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Yes RAM is cheap nowadays, but don't forget other costs involved in offering the VPS. HD, bandwidth, rackspace, power, IP address, support, CPU and other costs are involved as well. Other than that, if you are getting quality RAM (ECC registered), it isn't as cheap as those in your PC.
    Heh, yeah I know. But you're missing the point. With ram being cheap ($350 for 16GB ECC registered from Newegg is fairly cheap for server memory) and plentiful, why is it a premium?

    See, the funny thing about getting 30-60GB of HDD space is that most will never fill it up with a simple program or site running on 256mb of ram, unless they're running a huge database. But wait, wouldn't that be memory intensive as well?

    So I ask you this. Is 256MB of ram enough to house an optimized program or website that could be hit by 1000 users at any one time?

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    Heh, yeah I know. But you're missing the point. With ram being cheap ($350 for 16GB ECC registered from Newegg is fairly cheap for server memory) and plentiful, why is it a premium?
    You still don't get my point. The other costs involved virtually increased the price!
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    See, the funny thing about getting 30-60GB of HDD space is that most will never fill it up with a simple program or site running on 256mb of ram, unless they're running a huge database. But wait, wouldn't that be memory intensive as well?
    That's what we call overselling.
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    So I ask you this. Is 256MB of ram enough to house an optimized program or website that could be hit by 1000 users at any one time?
    Obviously not.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by HostColor View Post
    RAM is getting cheaper in absolute numbers, but as you know hardware platforms which can use a large amounts of RAM are very expensive. And you know that anyone can not increase RAM just like that on their servers.
    Dell has their PowerEdge M710 (blade server) starting at $1799. Blackbox servers can be cheaper if you know where to look for the parts. Why can't they increase their ram if the hardware supports more? As I just stated, $350 for 16GB (4x4GB) is cheap enough that any business could afford it.

    Yes, I am a geek. Yes, I can rip apart a desktop/laptop/server and put it back together again better than new in my sleep. Memory upgrade is the easy part.

  12. #12
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    A small VPS is a low-cost, low-resource machine - and that's great for many people. If you want more resources you need to pay more. And if you want more of some resources and less of others, you may be able to negotiate something with the provider. Or not, since many will find it more convenient to sell standard packages.

    In the end it's up to the provider to decide what they'll offer and up to you to decide whether you're willing to pay their price. Market forces working as usual. If you think you can do better, DIY.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    You still don't get my point. The other costs involved virtually increased the price!
    But isn't the overhead covered by the subscriptions and then some (profit)? I mean, people do make a profit or they wouldn't do it, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    That's what we call overselling.
    So these companies oversell their HDD why? To make it more attractive? People see 30GB and 300GB of bandwidth, and ignore the tiny 128MB or 256MB ram. Yup, that's overselling without adding any real value. No way can 256MB handle the amount of traffic is would take to fill up 300GB of bandwidth.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Obviously not.
    My point exactly. So let's balance things out a bit. I figure, 512MB is the minimal amount that would handle the processes needed to survive a large number of connections with a minimal amount of casualties. 150GB of bandwidth would handle multiple hits, and about 15GB of space since I'd want some room to expand or house some sizable files. I think $20/month is a fair price for that.

    One other thing that bothers me. I've seen these companies double their ram and HDD on packages and the price more than doubles. How does that work? Doesn't make sense to the consumer in me.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by foobic View Post
    A small VPS is a low-cost, low-resource machine - and that's great for many people. If you want more resources you need to pay more. And if you want more of some resources and less of others, you may be able to negotiate something with the provider. Or not, since many will find it more convenient to sell standard packages.

    In the end it's up to the provider to decide what they'll offer and up to you to decide whether you're willing to pay their price. Market forces working as usual. If you think you can do better, DIY.
    Laziness always wins out eh? lol I know what you mean though. I could do it myself, if I had the cash resources to. But really, all I ask is that resources in the packages being sold be more balanced.

  15. #15
    Actually 300GB on a 256MB VPS isn't exactly hard, I've seen 1TB pushed easily from a small nginx fileserver on a 256MB centos. You like to assume things and create your own idea of what is 'fair'; a provider needs to make sure he can make ends meet when it comes to paying for his server colo, getting back the money spent on the machine within a year, and still making a bit of profit every month.
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    Dell has their PowerEdge M710 (blade server) starting at $1799. Blackbox servers can be cheaper if you know where to look for the parts. Why can't they increase their ram if the hardware supports more? As I just stated, $350 for 16GB (4x4GB) is cheap enough that any business could afford it.

    Yes, I am a geek. Yes, I can rip apart a desktop/laptop/server and put it back together again better than new in my sleep. Memory upgrade is the easy part.
    You can assemble a server doesn't mean you understand it.

    What kind of RAM is that for $350? Is it ECC registered?

    Please put yourself in the provider's shoes. If it is really so "cheap", why aren't the prices as low as you mentioned? Do your maths properly on the side of the provider. Will you want a VPS with 4GB RAM for $25, when the hardware node has 128GB of RAM on a dual quad core CPU?

    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    But isn't the overhead covered by the subscriptions and then some (profit)? I mean, people do make a profit or they wouldn't do it, right?
    I don't really understand you here...
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    So these companies oversell their HDD why? To make it more attractive? People see 30GB and 300GB of bandwidth, and ignore the tiny 128MB or 256MB ram. Yup, that's overselling without adding any real value. No way can 256MB handle the amount of traffic is would take to fill up 300GB of bandwidth.
    Not all companies oversell till that extreme. In fact, majority of the VPS companies I had seen usually have <100GB on a 1GB RAM plan.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    My point exactly. So let's balance things out a bit. I figure, 512MB is the minimal amount that would handle the processes needed to survive a large number of connections with a minimal amount of casualties. 150GB of bandwidth would handle multiple hits, and about 15GB of space since I'd want some room to expand or house some sizable files. I think $20/month is a fair price for that.
    Usually 384MB is sufficient. Depending on what you are hosting, the requirements will be different. You can host a busy blog on 384MB of RAM without problems.
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    One other thing that bothers me. I've seen these companies double their ram and HDD on packages and the price more than doubles. How does that work? Doesn't make sense to the consumer in me.
    It is very EASY to do so. Just undersell your plans by half and then advertise an offer to double it. However, some of them throw in more resources on the server to double it. Usually this happens to providers who owns their hardware, as they can alter their ROI as they like.
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    One other thing that bothers me. I've seen these companies double their ram and HDD on packages and the price more than doubles. How does that work? Doesn't make sense to the consumer in me.
    It makes perfect sense - price discrimination. If you have higher requirements in principle you are doing business with it, therefore more willing to pay extra price (less price sensitive).

    Same thing goes for many other business activities. For example why do you pay such a premium for the top of the line CPU (which costs marginally more than the lower clocked bottom line of the same design, and only due to being of lower availability) or internet connection (the direct cost of a 24mb ADSL connection and a 12mb one are the same for the operator, but the former catters for the client willing to pay more).

    On the subject I have a 128MB VPS that has been enoung memory-wise. Only have a TS server running though (no web control panel or anything similar). But I agree that most of the packages seem to skimp on memory, but to each its own.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    In my experience, 256MB of is not near enough ram to run a decent site with, much less multiple sites. So why do vps providers still sell vps' with only 256MB of ram?
    jtalbot, there are a great many other uses to which a VPS can be deployed other than a website; for which 256MB is plenty more than sufficient.

  19. #19
    From personal experience after deploying many virtual private servers, 256MB of sufficient for cPanel, and a few small sites.

    @ The OP. If your math was correct, then yes, all providers would offer ram at jaw dropping prices. Unfortunately your knowledge seems to be flawed in the matter, and you don't seem to be calculating the true price of ram into the equation for a virtual private server node.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    You can assemble a server doesn't mean you understand it.

    What kind of RAM is that for $350? Is it ECC registered?

    Please put yourself in the provider's shoes. If it is really so "cheap", why aren't the prices as low as you mentioned? Do your maths properly on the side of the provider. Will you want a VPS with 4GB RAM for $25, when the hardware node has 128GB of RAM on a dual quad core CPU?
    Yes, $350 for ECC registered 4x4GB (16GB total) Corsair memory.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    I don't really understand you here...
    Overhead is are all the costs associated with the VPS. The cost of overhead should be covered by what your customers are giving you each month.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Not all companies oversell till that extreme. In fact, majority of the VPS companies I had seen usually have <100GB on a 1GB RAM plan.
    I have yet to see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Usually 384MB is sufficient. Depending on what you are hosting, the requirements will be different. You can host a busy blog on 384MB of RAM without problems.
    How about hosting 3 or 4 busy blogs? 384MB of ram usually goes with a cost around $30-$40.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    It is very EASY to do so. Just undersell your plans by half and then advertise an offer to double it. However, some of them throw in more resources on the server to double it. Usually this happens to providers who owns their hardware, as they can alter their ROI as they like.
    Ah, the difference between a renter and an owner. The owners have an advantage I see. I've seen the old retal bit where a store will double it's prices then have a %30 off sale just to get people to come in the store. Dirty, but effective I guess.

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by AquariusADMIN View Post
    From personal experience after deploying many virtual private servers, 256MB of sufficient for cPanel, and a few small sites.

    @ The OP. If your math was correct, then yes, all providers would offer ram at jaw dropping prices. Unfortunately your knowledge seems to be flawed in the matter, and you don't seem to be calculating the true price of ram into the equation for a virtual private server node.
    Jaw dropping? lol You're kidding right? No, look it up. Newegg.com has Corsair 8GB (4GBx2) ECC Registered kits for $175 regular price. Buy 2 kits, you have 16GB of ram fairly cheap for server memory, and the cost would be easily recoverable. How about you do your research, eh?

  22. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Maynard View Post
    jtalbot, there are a great many other uses to which a VPS can be deployed other than a website; for which 256MB is plenty more than sufficient.
    Read the whole thread before posting. Thanks.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    It makes perfect sense - price discrimination. If you have higher requirements in principle you are doing business with it, therefore more willing to pay extra price (less price sensitive).
    Ah, because you think the customer is willing to pay more, you charge more. Nice...

    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    Same thing goes for many other business activities. For example why do you pay such a premium for the top of the line CPU (which costs marginally more than the lower clocked bottom line of the same design, and only due to being of lower availability) or internet connection (the direct cost of a 24mb ADSL connection and a 12mb one are the same for the operator, but the former catters for the client willing to pay more).
    I don't pay a premium for anything at the moment, mostly because the economy sucks and my money is limited. Thinking back, I have never paid a premium for anything. I've always found the latest and greatest for rock-bottom prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    On the subject I have a 128MB VPS that has been enoung memory-wise. Only have a TS server running though (no web control panel or anything similar). But I agree that most of the packages seem to skimp on memory, but to each its own.
    TS doesn't require many resources. Throw a LAMP stack with a busy site on top of it and see how it holds.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    Yes, $350 for ECC registered 4x4GB (16GB total) Corsair memory.
    Okay, Newegg has dirt cheap prices.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    Overhead is are all the costs associated with the VPS. The cost of overhead should be covered by what your customers are giving you each month.
    Then why are you still asking silly questions

    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    I have yet to see it.
    www.linode.com
    www.slicehost.com
    www.vps.net
    www.wiredtree.com
    www.knownhost.com
    www.servint.com
    www.futurehosting.com
    www.liquidweb.com
    www.servercomplete.com
    www.wowvps.com
    www.jaguarpc.com

    These are just some of the examples.
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    How about hosting 3 or 4 busy blogs? 384MB of ram usually goes with a cost around $30-$40.
    You are obviously twisting facts here. At this rate, there is no way you will understand.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    Ah, the difference between a renter and an owner. The owners have an advantage I see. I've seen the old retal bit where a store will double it's prices then have a %30 off sale just to get people to come in the store. Dirty, but effective I guess.
    ...

    I don't wish to be rude, but if you still want to be stubborn, even a sage can't convince you.
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  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    Ah, because you think the customer is willing to pay more, you charge more. Nice...
    Of course you do. Same goes for the employers - if I think I can hire employee A for X USD, in principle I won't offer him more (might do it in the form of a "stimulus" but not as basic wage). Simple supply and demand law, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    I don't pay a premium for anything at the moment, mostly because the economy sucks and my money is limited. Thinking back, I have never paid a premium for anything. I've always found the latest and greatest for rock-bottom prices.
    Even in the cash strapped times, many people do have significant budgets. And are willing to pay quite more for something that the supplier can provide at a little extra cost (for them) and they know it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    TS doesn't require many resources. Throw a LAMP stack with a busy site on top of it and see how it holds.
    I know it doesn't, therefore I'm quite happy not having to pay for something I don't need (extra RAM).

    In the end, RAM may be cheap, but the TCO of the server is not, and while it keeps being the restraining factor of the number of VPSs well, it will be more expensive than other resources. But lets think about resources:

    Bandwidth: usually very high/unlimited. easy to do an average (meaning that if someone overuses the average it will not affect the other VPS seriously) - variable usage and easy to share.
    CPU: personally I've never seen a VPS being CPU bound... maybe due to report limitations. Overusage can hurt others, but it is more an issue of server management. CPU is easy to share among many VPS, variable usage.
    HDD: usually at 10GB/128MB or 20GB/128MB at most. A 1TB HDD costs 90USD - enough for hosting around 50 VPS - even if RAID 1, the cost is 180 for 50 20 GB VPS (a little less due to common system files, blah blah blah). Static sharing.
    Memory: lets think about 16GB for 350 USD. Static sharing. If you put 512MB VPS, you can put 32 VPS on a machine (a little less due to...).

    So, thinking about limits, you are sooner RAM bound than HDD bound. On top of it HDD is easier to scale.


    Cost approach: a VPS costs:
    -near 0 for GB of traffic
    -not much per CPU usage
    -0,18 USD per GB of HDD (RAID 1 Sata drives)
    -0,02 USB per MB

    So if you are willing to spend as much in HDD as in memory in you offer, you should go for 9MB of RAM per each GB of HDD. Most low mem offers I've seen have 10GB per 128 MB, so they actually are spending more on the RAM than on HDD.

    TLDR
    Now I'd like to see more RAM in the offers, but there are offers with plenty of RAM - just don't expect them to be cheap, because not only they are the most expensive item as also the limiting factors (in the end both are connected). The good news is that RAM is getting cheaper and the total server capacity increasing

  26. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    Okay, Newegg has dirt cheap prices.

    Then why are you still asking silly questions
    I ask questions, silly or otherwise, to be convinced. So far no one in this thread has answered the question and all I've gotten is "ram is a premium, deal with it."

    The most intriguing of these offers is the vps.net cloud vps. Nice thought... Anyway, I see nothing out of the ordinary other than that. Some cost more, some cost less, but they all similar offering (except vps.net).

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    You are obviously twisting facts here. At this rate, there is no way you will understand.
    How am I twisting facts? You state I do, but offer no evidence to the contrary.

    Quote Originally Posted by LaptopFreak View Post
    ...

    I don't wish to be rude, but if you still want to be stubborn, even a sage can't convince you.
    I'm not being stubborn, I'm just looking for a real answer as to why ram plays such a big role in vps hosting. So far, I've gotten greed and TCO. Sure TCO I can understand, but greed "because they will pay for it" is just stupid in my honest opinion. That mindset just pisses me off.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    I ask questions, silly or otherwise, to be convinced. So far no one in this thread has answered the question and all I've gotten is "ram is a premium, deal with it."



    The most intriguing of these offers is the vps.net cloud vps. Nice thought... Anyway, I see nothing out of the ordinary other than that. Some cost more, some cost less, but they all similar offering (except vps.net).



    How am I twisting facts? You state I do, but offer no evidence to the contrary.



    I'm not being stubborn, I'm just looking for a real answer as to why ram plays such a big role in vps hosting. So far, I've gotten greed and TCO. Sure TCO I can understand, but greed "because they will pay for it" is just stupid in my honest opinion. That mindset just pisses me off.
    Not going to repeat what I had said. I had answered your questions. You are just twisting it around to make it another question of the same.
    The most intriguing of these offers is the vps.net cloud vps. Nice thought... Anyway, I see nothing out of the ordinary other than that. Some cost more, some cost less, but they all similar offering (except vps.net).
    This is something new which I would love to answer. They are not similiar except they are all VPS. Some of them uses Virtuozzo, some Xen, some uses modified Xen (vps.net). Both virtualization is different, so they have different RAM management too. Some of the providers offer managed services, some just provide unmanaged ones. Do take note that this is a huge factor in determinating the cost.

    Actually VPS.net is just a Xen setup with something a bit special, whereby the servers are clustered so that you can up and downgrade as and when you like, and pay for what you require, unlike traditional VPS. Nothing unique other than that only. People call it "cloud".
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  28. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    Of course you do. Same goes for the employers - if I think I can hire employee A for X USD, in principle I won't offer him more (might do it in the form of a "stimulus" but not as basic wage). Simple supply and demand law, really.
    I guess I have a different set of ethics. I believe in paying someone what they're worth for the job they're given. In the restaurant biz, I'd rather have someone who can cook well and pay them more than hire someone who can't for less. Eventually, if I went with applicant B, no one would want to come eat at my restaurant.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    Even in the cash strapped times, many people do have significant budgets. And are willing to pay quite more for something that the supplier can provide at a little extra cost (for them) and they know it.
    Keep dreaming... People have tightened their belts a lot even where needs are concerned, much less something like a VPS. I know in my time of need, I chose an ultra cheap (yet surprisingly dependable) shared reseller account.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    I know it doesn't, therefore I'm quite happy not having to pay for something I don't need (extra RAM).
    Exactly. If I need more ram, but don't need the standard HDD space or bandwidth, aren't I paying for something I don't need?

    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    In the end, RAM may be cheap, but the TCO of the server is not, and while it keeps being the restraining factor of the number of VPSs well, it will be more expensive than other resources. But lets think about resources:

    Bandwidth: usually very high/unlimited. easy to do an average (meaning that if someone overuses the average it will not affect the other VPS seriously) - variable usage and easy to share.
    CPU: personally I've never seen a VPS being CPU bound... maybe due to report limitations. Overusage can hurt others, but it is more an issue of server management. CPU is easy to share among many VPS, variable usage.
    HDD: usually at 10GB/128MB or 20GB/128MB at most. A 1TB HDD costs 90USD - enough for hosting around 50 VPS - even if RAID 1, the cost is 180 for 50 20 GB VPS (a little less due to common system files, blah blah blah). Static sharing.
    Memory: lets think about 16GB for 350 USD. Static sharing. If you put 512MB VPS, you can put 32 VPS on a machine (a little less due to...).
    There are a lot of CPU bound hosts out there. I'm going to go out on a limb here, just for a second. Correct me if I'm wrong, but operating costs outside of hardware is pretty static right? So the only variable we really have is the hardware and possibly support. Assuming each subscriber of said machine (30 to be safe) paid the going rate ($40/month) for a 512MB per VPS, that's $1200USD. TCO on said machine may be around $500 to $600, so roughly half the gross income for that particular server. Multiply that by 10 servers and that's a nice chunk of change. Again, any upgrades have been paid for in the single month.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    So, thinking about limits, you are sooner RAM bound than HDD bound. On top of it HDD is easier to scale.


    Cost approach: a VPS costs:
    -near 0 for GB of traffic
    -not much per CPU usage
    -0,18 USD per GB of HDD (RAID 1 Sata drives)
    -0,02 USB per MB

    So if you are willing to spend as much in HDD as in memory in you offer, you should go for 9MB of RAM per each GB of HDD. Most low mem offers I've seen have 10GB per 128 MB, so they actually are spending more on the RAM than on HDD.
    I'm not sure if "spending" is the right word as the ram has already been paid for, and the profits for 1 month have already paid for it plus some.

    Quote Originally Posted by ruibrandao View Post
    TLDR
    Now I'd like to see more RAM in the offers, but there are offers with plenty of RAM - just don't expect them to be cheap, because not only they are the most expensive item as also the limiting factors (in the end both are connected). The good news is that RAM is getting cheaper and the total server capacity increasing
    Ah, my next quest is: with ram (and hardware as a whole) getting cheaper, will we see a drop in prices for higher spec VPS'?

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by foobic View Post
    Bear in mind also that in a VPS even "guaranteed" memory can be oversold and some of the low-end providers emphasise burst memory instead - both of these can skew the apparent value of a VPS plan.
    Not if the host is runing XEN, then guaranteed memory is theirs and cannot be over sold.

  30. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post

    There are a lot of CPU bound hosts out there. I'm going to go out on a limb here, just for a second. Correct me if I'm wrong, but operating costs outside of hardware is pretty static right? So the only variable we really have is the hardware and possibly support. Assuming each subscriber of said machine (30 to be safe) paid the going rate ($40/month) for a 512MB per VPS, that's $1200USD. TCO on said machine may be around $500 to $600, so roughly half the gross income for that particular server. Multiply that by 10 servers and that's a nice chunk of change. Again, any upgrades have been paid for in the single month.


    I'm not sure if "spending" is the right word as the ram has already been paid for, and the profits for 1 month have already paid for it plus some.

    Ah, my next quest is: with ram (and hardware as a whole) getting cheaper, will we see a drop in prices for higher spec VPS'?

    Your not going to put 30 customers on a server that cost 600. no way no how not even possible. your looking at ~16G ram + spindles to handle it. you should realisticly think cost of machine is going to be 3x that much up to 4-5x depending on size/spindle count for the storage.

    Its not about "well the server is paid for so why is this still costing me x a month" sort of deal. This is a business, there is overhead there are other factors involved, the colo space, the network equipment that runs everything and the staff and oversee's everything. Then theres marketing and development and the list can keep going on. 1 server making 1200/month is alright peanuts really but when you look at the larger picture with overhead etc you need a few of those 1200/month servers to turn a profit and run a business.

    Not everyone is a kid doing this as a hobby.

  31. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    Your not going to put 30 customers on a server that cost 600. no way no how not even possible. your looking at ~16G ram + spindles to handle it. you should realisticly think cost of machine is going to be 3x that much up to 4-5x depending on size/spindle count for the storage.
    No, you didn't read did you? Read the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    Its not about "well the server is paid for so why is this still costing me x a month" sort of deal. This is a business, there is overhead there are other factors involved, the colo space, the network equipment that runs everything and the staff and oversee's everything. Then theres marketing and development and the list can keep going on. 1 server making 1200/month is alright peanuts really but when you look at the larger picture with overhead etc you need a few of those 1200/month servers to turn a profit and run a business.
    It's all overhead. $1200 should be enough to cover the TCO of a server and still make a profit. Again, read the thread. I'm not a stranger to this stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spudstr View Post
    Not everyone is a kid doing this as a hobby.
    I know.

  32. #32
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    Vps providers have to sell nodes based on ram, its one of the few things we are actually limited by. We can only get so much into a node before its just no longer viable. Most motherboards can only support so much, and to cram on 24 or 32gb ram like we do now, it takes the expensive registered ecc 4gb ram+ sticks. Your not comparing the right ram on newegg.

    Next this physical limit thats now cost quite a bit after adding in the raid controllers and quality drives gives you more limits.

    You take those figures, your cost of colo, and decide the margins you want to clear, thats what you have to earn from that box. Now divide up the ram and disk into sections large/small enough to make your plans and margins.
    Greg Landis | Founder Jaguarpc - Keeping websites happy since 1998
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  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by jtalbot View Post
    No, you didn't read did you? Read the thread.

    It's all overhead. $1200 should be enough to cover the TCO of a server and still make a profit. Again, read the thread. I'm not a stranger to this stuff.

    I know.
    Well you do plan to support the server, clients, add software, support it, then backups, security, enough to buy/add more when its full, marketing, etc.

    People start failing when they don't consider the real costs of business and sell themselves short. What good is any of it if you go out of business and take all the clients down with you. And their clients, and their clients clients, etc.
    Greg Landis | Founder Jaguarpc - Keeping websites happy since 1998
    Managed IT Solutions - Business hosting | Virtual Private Servers | Cloud VPS Hosting | Dedicated servers | Backup service
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  34. #34
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    I suggest everyone to stop replying him.. We are all saying the same thing and he just doesn't get it.
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