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  1. #1
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    12k Website On Celeron?

    We plan on sponsoring a clients website that gets 10k unique visitors a day. Around 100-200 people are on the site during their busiest time.

    Celeron-L Conroe 1.6 Ghz 800mhz FSB
    OR AMD Athlon X2 4200+ (If celeron is too small)
    2GB ram
    250gb raid hard drives

    I do understand these are optimally not large enough servers for a site this large however we do plan to get the most out of the server.

    We have never hosted a user with such traffic to their site before with an alexa ranking of under 20,000 which is why we are turning to the community for opinions.

  2. #2
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    You must be joking if you plan to go with Celeron cpu. I should recommend you on Xeon cpu with 2Gb minimum ram.

  3. #3
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    Yea I figured I would get a response like that

    Reason I put a celeron as one of the choices is because I ran a website once with 3000 uniques a day on a celeron just fine.

  4. #4
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    anything is possible... depends on what type of website (application type).

  5. #5
    The Athlon X2 should work fine.
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  6. #6
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    Well the thing is Celeron can take up to 15,000 users per day and crash in 4 days. And Reboot will be required. If you want crash free server Xeon will be exceptional choice and stay clear from AMD too.

  7. #7
    I suppose that people with such ammount of traffic do chose the sponsors at their own. So make sure the will agree on your proposition. Maybe that worth to offer something more solid to them?

  8. #8
    Not a good thinking.

    If the website is dataase driven than it is useless to use celeron server.

    But in case the site is simple html/css i.e no login system etc then may be it is possible to use celeron.

  9. #9
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    Xeon would be your right choise. Maybe you can try with a core2quad.

    What is your budget for this project?

  10. #10
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    We would like to not go over $100 a month for sponsoring them.

  11. #11
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    Get a minimum Core2Duo with at least 4 gigs ram. You're gonna be experiencing daily crashes and slowdowns on a celeron and the kind of traffic you get on your page.

  12. #12
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    It depenjds on site-type.. static pages can be served in the billions by an atom or celeron running nginx, whereas it'd crap its pants doing Wordpress..

  13. #13
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    What type of site is it? I've run a php (no sql) site getting 50k+ uniques on a $10 vps without a problem.

  14. #14
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    Celeron would be ok if you dont mind restarting it after 2 or 4 days. It can also take 15,000 users daily.

  15. #15
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    It's actually word press. What about the amd?

  16. #16
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    In the past AMD didnt do good of course it was also a 1.0ghz amd duron. If you do want amd then get amd Opteron.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan - HostATree View Post
    It's actually word press. What about the amd?
    AMD's are great and are usually cheaper then Intel's getting the same preformance. The Athlon should be fine.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan - HostATree View Post
    It's actually word press. What about the amd?
    hardly possible on celeron (maybe with a LOT of tweaking), but above mentioned alternative AMD Athlon X2 4200+ should be fine for this.

  19. #19
    Wow that's a popular word press site! I was expecting to hear "vBulletin" or "IPB".
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  20. #20
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    I handled 250-333 thousand non-unique pageviews (not including images/js/css/etc) of dynamic MySQL-driven PHP per day on a Celeron 2.4GHz with 512MB RAM and an 80GB HDD.

    It all depends on a variety of factors. How demanding the site itself is, what software you're using (Apache/Lighttpd/nginx/lightspeed/etc), how much they're willing to optimize, etc.

    I spent a lot of time optimizing both the PHP and MySQL side of things. PHP accelerators help a lot, and I ended up doing all queries against a HEAP table that was periodically recreated when data was updated (which was rare). I could have also gone a lot further by doing more caching and not using Apache.

    So, is it possible? Yes. Without careful attention and tweaking? Depends on the site. If it's static content, then you can do it without tweaking because static content is very easy.

    EDIT: Wups, WordPress. I've never handled optimizing something like that (my case was my own code). I know there are various caching solutions for WordPress that turn it into something much more like static content...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan - HostATree View Post
    It's actually word press. What about the amd?
    I've hosted vBulletin or SMF forums, as well as wordpress blogs.

    I must say that wordpress uses FAR MORE cpu than any forum software, and on that machine you will have quite many problems.

    Wordpress is not worth being a sponsor of, really. Too much resources for too few pageviews.
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan - HostATree View Post
    We would like to not go over $100 a month for sponsoring them.
    Believe it or not you can get a core2quad or xeon for $99 a month if you are in the normal to lower bandwidth range per month (2000GB or so).

    There's no point in buying older obsolete systems such as celerons anymore.
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  23. #23
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    you can get a quad core cpu 2 the egg for 75 dollars.. or you can have rent a c2Q with 2gigs of ram with a 5Mbps pipe for about 100 dollars

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by elvis1 View Post
    you can get a quad core cpu 2 the egg for 75 dollars.. or you can have rent a c2Q with 2gigs of ram with a 5Mbps pipe for about 100 dollars
    i dont think a 5mbps pipe would be big enough for the amount if visitors daily
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  25. #25
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    WP-SuperCache would take a lot of the load off that server I'd imagine, and possibly even bring it into the range of being able to put it on a Celeron, depending on what kind of Celeron we're talking about.

    Load it up with RAM and you might be able to swing it.
    I used to run the oldest commercial Mumble host.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by darkeden View Post
    i dont think a 5mbps pipe would be big enough for the amount if visitors daily
    It depends on the content. It's a blog, so if it's mostly text, then compression (mod_deflate/mod_gzip/whatever solution your server provides) would reduce bandwidth load enormously.

    If it's image-heavy, a CDN could really help with cheaply reducing load for images, and there's also services like Coral that can help if the blog is non-profit.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan - HostATree View Post
    We plan on sponsoring a clients website that gets 10k unique visitors a day. Around 100-200 people are on the site during their busiest time.

    Celeron-L Conroe 1.6 Ghz 800mhz FSB
    OR AMD Athlon X2 4200+ (If celeron is too small)
    2GB ram
    250gb raid hard drives

    I do understand these are optimally not large enough servers for a site this large however we do plan to get the most out of the server.

    We have never hosted a user with such traffic to their site before with an alexa ranking of under 20,000 which is why we are turning to the community for opinions.
    You've not given any indication of the load, so it's impossible to say anything.

    10,000 unique visitors a day is an average of one every 10 seconds.

    So, how much total work does each visitor generate for the server? If the daily average is more than 10 seconds worth of CPU time plus disk I/O time you could have problems.

    You really should measure this on your test system before deciding on a production system. Admittedly it's hard, because you won't have a profile of the user activity; but you just have to make your best guesses.

    I would say you can assume the limiting factor for static web page components is disk I/O ... 7200rpm drives will limit you to something like 100 components per second (ymmv). That's much lower than the CPU's ability to deliver URL requests - that will be able to deliver over 1000 URLs a second.

    So for assessing the capacity to deliver static components, you can ignore the CPU, and just take the figure as 100 a second for 7200rpm drives.

    Now you need to know how many static components the server delivers per web page - external CSS stylesheets, external Javascript files, jpg images and suchlike. If the figure is, say, 20, that would mean you could deliver 100/20 which is 5 web pages a second from the server.

    With an average of 10 seconds web server time per user per day, that would mean you could deliver up to 50 static web pages per user per day with the server fully loaded. Planning on a peak:average ratio of 4:1, that would mean 12 web pages per user per day.

    You appeciate these figures are for illustrative purposes - to show how you can start a capacity plan for the server.

    And that leads on to the big question: apart from static pages, what other resources get consumed?

    That depends on what programming is being executed, apart from the web server function of taking URLs, reading corresponding static disk data, and serving it.

    And we don't know. You really need to get capacity guidelines from whoever designed the programs. The one thing we can say is the other programs may comsume *far more* resources than the web server function. (That's why there are all these programs available for caching - caching the output of a programs means that subsequent requests for the same output can be delivered by the web server component, without repeating all the program execution needed to create that output in the firstplace.)

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guspaz View Post
    It depends on the content. It's a blog, so if it's mostly text, then compression (mod_deflate/mod_gzip/whatever solution your server provides) would reduce bandwidth load enormously.

    If it's image-heavy, a CDN could really help with cheaply reducing load for images, and there's also services like Coral that can help if the blog is non-profit.
    Not just images, but you could run nginx or some reverse proxy before Apache and have it serve all static files.
    AFAIK, Wordpress has a crap ton of js/css includes, and if you have a lot of plugins, there's a ton more js there, and the templates usually use a large amount of images

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guspaz View Post
    If it's image-heavy, a CDN could really help with cheaply reducing load for images
    Are CDNs cheaper than servers for low bandiwtdh requirements - say 10,000GB a month or less?

    A server would cost from maybe $200 to $1000 for 10,000GB a month.

    I thought a CDN would cost much more than that - over $4000 a month for 10,000GB.

  30. #30
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    CDN's are almost never cheaper till you get to real big commits or your paying alot for overage on your normal server Guspaz has no idea what he is talking about.

    lol




    Quote Originally Posted by tim2718281 View Post
    Are CDNs cheaper than servers for low bandiwtdh requirements - say 10,000GB a month or less?

    A server would cost from maybe $200 to $1000 for 10,000GB a month.

    I thought a CDN would cost much more than that - over $4000 a month for 10,000GB.

  31. #31
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    Well Celeron is not enough, go on Xenon Servers which are more powerful,
    Even AMD Opteron can do

  32. #32
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    That server will definitely crash at some point. Go for a Core2Duo or an Xeon.
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  33. #33
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    Ya i said Celerons are crap.

  34. #34
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    Since you are this budget oriented, I recommend:

    1. 1U Intel Single Socket 3200 chipset barebone $389.
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16816110030

    2. Celeron E1400. It is a new chip, dual core 45nm 2Ghz for 49 dollars. It is far better than Conroe-L single core 1.6Ghz
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16819116069

    Or, Q8200. It is a much better chip though for only $90 dollars more.
    http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?p=Q8200

    3. 8GB of ram. 4 DIMMS of the following ECC ram $120
    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16820134881

    4. A pair of Western Digital RE3 500GB hard drives $150

  35. #35
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    i would go with xeon with 2 gb ram minimum

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberhouse View Post
    CDN's are almost never cheaper till you get to real big commits or your paying alot for overage on your normal server Guspaz has no idea what he is talking about.

    lol
    SimpleCDN starts at 3.4 cents per gig starting at a commit of zero. That's cheaper than bandwidth overage costs from pretty much any host that doesn't specialize in bulk bandwidth.

    If you aren't aware of the available pricing of popular CDN providers, why are you claiming that *I* have no idea what I'm talking about?

  37. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Ryan - HostATree View Post
    It's actually word press. What about the amd?
    AMD is actually underrated. its cheaper and performance wise comparable to Intel.

    try Quad Core Phenom series. I have seen them going around $100/mo at joe's Datacenter. this would be a monster server
    http://joesdatacenter.com/dedi.html

  38. #38
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    Where did the OP say he was worried about going over his bandwith limit ?



    Quote Originally Posted by Guspaz View Post
    SimpleCDN starts at 3.4 cents per gig starting at a commit of zero. That's cheaper than bandwidth overage costs from pretty much any host that doesn't specialize in bulk bandwidth.

    If you aren't aware of the available pricing of popular CDN providers, why are you claiming that *I* have no idea what I'm talking about?

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberhouse View Post
    Where did the OP say he was worried about going over his bandwith limit ?
    He didn't. Somebody suggested a server with a 5mbit fixed-speed pipe, somebody else raised the concern that that wasn't fast enough, I noted that it was enough for text content if images were offloaded to a CDN, and you threw an uninformed insult.

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guspaz View Post
    SimpleCDN starts at 3.4 cents per gig starting at a commit of zero.
    That's worth knowing; thank you.

    They have a "savings comparison" page; the first example is a 450MB video game "Downloaded by 675,000 people over a period of one year", and the lowest cost is $10,150.93

    OK, what would it cost to do it with servers instead of a CDN?

    450MB times 675,000 is 303,750GB. Divided by 12 that's an average of 25,000GB per month. That would require three servers with bandwidth of 10TB per month - eg 10tb.com Ember at $199 a month.

    So it would cost $7,200 to do it with 10tb.com servers, compared with $10,000 using the CDN. (Obviously there are cheaper servers than 10tb.com)

    Still, the extra cost of using a CDN can be much less than I had thought; and there may be benefits from using the CDN that make the extra cost worth it.

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