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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
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    Asia-Pacific
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    Are there other hosts that has a policy like this???

    ....over daily bandwidth limit ...

    This is the first time I've seen such an error/suspension page. By the way the host is alwayswebhosting (AWH). And the site that exceeded its "Daily Bandwidth Limit" (sic) is a BB for computer enthusiasts - a forum that I frequent. If i'm not mistaken, their account with with alwayswebhosting has a 20 GB monthly bandwidth quota.

    At first glance on the error/suspension page, I thought there might be some mistake that the site has exceed its bandwidth limit since we're only on the 5th day of the month. But looking on it again, ...there it was..."over daily bandwidth limit".

    So I went to AWH's site to check out their TOS. You can check it out AWHhere. Went through it thoroughly but i still can't any find any reference that an account can be suspended for "over daily bandwidth limit"...

    ...another thing that's weird with AWH is that they don't have a link of their TOS on their site. It just so happened that a link of their TOS was posted in their forum when someone was asking for it.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
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    677
    I am on the same host, and I never encountered that. But then again, that may be a new rule. Or it could be that the site owner requested it to ensure they don't go over the limit. Or they are going the geocities way.... let the flocks come.. and we charge later... however all are speculations. Perhaps Ronnie will come and clarify.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
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    The West
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    Did you aks AWH? Perhaps this is an option that the client has chosen.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    697
    There are a couple of hosts that do this. I know hostway bases their monthly bandwidth limit on a daily average...

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Dallas, TX
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    Hi ReB, what we have instituted recently at AWH is a daily bandwidth limit for accounts, which we are still working on rolling out fully.

    What we are doing is taking the customer's monthly bandwidth limit, add 5-10 GB to it, and divide by 30 days to get a daily limit... If you hit that limit, then you'll see the notice you mentioned.

    Have the client contact me, ReB, and we can discuss it further with them, or upgrade their (your?) plan for more bandwidth, etc. I do believe hosting policies such as this are becoming more common-place, as mpope mentioned.
    Last edited by alwaysweb; 11-05-2002 at 02:45 PM.
    Ronnie T. Moore, Founder/Owner
    AlwaysWebHosting.com Friendly, feature-packed Cpanel hosting, that can't be beat!
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  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    256
    Personally I think its a great policy.

    I mean, if I were running a site where transfer/bandwidth was limited, I would MUCH rather have the site (assuming its not earning me money!) just hit a certain BW/Trans limit and then dump out than to get a HUGE bil at the end of the month and not be able to pay that car payment/heat bill/etc as well as the site.


    ---which reminds me of a similar incident I had a while back:

    Several years ago (1996 ?) I was working for an ISP called UltraNet (since bought up by RCN). I had a call from a customer while working tech support who had serious questions about his bill.

    I tried to connect him with billing, but as usual, they weren't in.

    I hopped in the database and noticed that he had a $1200.00 bill (this on a $19.99 a month unlimited dial-up account.)
    The charges were listed as "Bandwidth over quota" which was allotted 100 megs a month free for a home page. The account had seen MULTIPLE GIGS worth of downloads, when most people had 33.6 modems at best.

    I told the guy why, and looked in the FTP/HOME directory and noticed that there were files called "Quake_hack" and things like that. Not looking at them, I mentioned that they were possibly illegal files and against policies and asked him to look at his webspace/FTP space. He claims that his son had uploaded them and he would look at them first thing when he got home.

    I took a closer look at the directories and noticed a directory called "sex_stories". Being a curious sort (and calls in the phone que all dealt with) I took a look and then burst out laughing.

    It seems the "son" had an interesting collection of erotic fiction in the space involving....lets say a VERY intense form of "family affection" between brother and sister.

    The tech support department got a heck of a laugh at this, imagining the reaction when the father got home and took a look at what was in the space.

    ---Basically the family agreed to pay %10 of the bill, in exchange for the rest of the charges being dropped as a courtesy.

    and the files remained exactly where they were (not being pirated software, just tools to modify your character).

    and the next month they got a BIGGER bill as search engines found the site. (The "son" decided to try the clever tactic of deleting the files off the FTP site a day before the 30th day of the month so it would'nt be "billed". Unfortunately, since the bill was done by daily average at the 95th percentile, this didnt work)


    (Sorry to take all the space, but I thought some may find the story interesting)

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    500
    I don't think that type of policy is the best. Meaning, if your going to give a user 20GB of bandwidth let them spend it how they want. If they want to burst let 'em burst. Only disable when a user has reached their limit. The host should notify the user when they are at 80% utilization (or whatever threshold a host might have) so the user can take corrective action if needed.
    Ryan Kekos GearHost - HostingCon Advisory Board and Speaker
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  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
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    Dallas, TX
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    Good story beast

    Ryan, I appreciate your feedback, and very much expect strong thoughts on both sides as this policy is controversial. For the last year we have let them use it any rate they wanted. That's not to say we can't continue to operate that way, but we've thought long and hard about it, and have made the decision to give the daily bandwidth limit a try to see how it works for us. (while still having a monthly limit, of course)
    Ronnie T. Moore, Founder/Owner
    AlwaysWebHosting.com Friendly, feature-packed Cpanel hosting, that can't be beat!
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  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Posts
    130
    I don't like this policy because....

    If a customer has 20 GB of usage, (just under 700 MB a day if my math is right), and by chance they get hit hard for two or three days out of a month, and then they just use a few MB the other days....they may end up using only 5 GB (700 MB x 3 days heavy use), and minimal use the rest of the days...

    But then they were denied access to their page for 3 days....

    I have a few clients who have this exact scenario...they get hit a few days a month when they do a campaign of some sort, or list a hot ebay item, in which the photo is on our server, etc.

    Just my .02 which I hope is ok. If not a MOD can remove my post.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    500
    Originally posted by alwaysweb
    ... have made the decision to give the daily bandwidth limit ...
    Totally understand Ronnie. Out of ceriosity was is your daily bandwidth limit or is that custom per client or hosting package?
    Ryan Kekos GearHost - HostingCon Advisory Board and Speaker
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  11. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Dallas, TX
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    Hi Ryan, here's how we set them up:

    Starter .5 GB / day (15 GB/month on a 10 GB/month plan)
    Gold 0.83 GB / day (25 GB/month on a 20 GB/month plan)
    Platinum 1.33 GB/day (40 GB/month on a 30 GB/month plan)

    Based on the feedback here from WHT and from our valued customers, we went ahead and pulled the daily bandwidth limit back off, and will research further and discuss in more detail with our customer base and go from there.
    Ronnie T. Moore, Founder/Owner
    AlwaysWebHosting.com Friendly, feature-packed Cpanel hosting, that can't be beat!
    cPanel 11 Fantastico Multiple-Domain hosting (Host up to 25 domains with one account!)
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  12. #12
    Hmm.. daily bandwidth limits.... Looking at this from both sides of the fence, I can see some bad, and some possible good.

    - As a webmaster, who's run a fairly popular site for a while and knows just how much one can see traffic spike one day and be dead the next (A link someplace popular can do this easily)... I'd absolutely hate the daily limits. Traffic can come in spurts, and if it does go way up one day, I want to be able to handle it, not have my site start erroring out. Limiting per day sounds like (no offense to AWH intended here), yet another way for the hosting-man to stick it to you and insure you don't use what you paid for. Lets face it, using 20 gigs in a month is one thing, a nice good traffic spike or two could do it for you.. but to average out 700 megs a day, every day, for a 31 day month? That's harder to accomplish. No site gets the same exact traffic everyday. There will be days you might only push 250meg, but days you WOULD have pushed a gig and a half.. had you not hit the daily limit... as a webmaster I'd be upset and think I was being cheated if my site was down claiming a "daily limit" when I was sold a "monthly allotment"...

    BUT (Before all my fellow hosts jump me and proclaim me a host-basher, which is definately not the case)

    - As a host, after that little DOS attack last weekend that sucked up 60 gigs from one clients site in under 3 hours (and before the Bandwidth monitor realized something was amiss!), a daily limit might have alleviated that problem. Or atleast lessened it.

    I'd be interested in finding out why more hosts are implementing this type of policy... I see a couple possible benefits... but most of them point me towards the "keep people from using their bandwidth" mentality.. which is a whole other subject of conversation and I won't get into here.
    Pure Energy Systems
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  13. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Posts
    500
    Looks good, let us know how this works out I'd be interested.
    Ryan Kekos GearHost - HostingCon Advisory Board and Speaker
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  14. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Dallas, TX
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    Originally posted by Shannon
    - As a host, after that little DOS attack last weekend that sucked up 60 gigs from one clients site in under 3 hours (and before the Bandwidth monitor realized something was amiss!), a daily limit might have alleviated that problem. Or atleast lessened it.
    B I N G O - In AWH's case, a prime factor that led us to consider daily limit was actually two recent DOS attacks, that chewed through 250 - 300 GB in a matter of hours (60 - 70 mbps spike). Owee!
    Ronnie T. Moore, Founder/Owner
    AlwaysWebHosting.com Friendly, feature-packed Cpanel hosting, that can't be beat!
    cPanel 11 Fantastico Multiple-Domain hosting (Host up to 25 domains with one account!)
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  15. #15
    Personally, if there's a danger of my going over a bandwidth limit, I'd expect the hosting company to warn me immediately via e-mail and ask whether I would like to either upgrade my package, or else have the site suspended as appropriate.

    If the site is important, then billing would be the favoured option. If suspended without such a choice, I would consider it bad customer care and look to cancel my subscription if not resolved favourably.

  16. #16
    Btw - I'd take a monthly limit at exactly that. As pointed out, sites can have variable activity. Being punished for having a busy day when otherwise calm would feel unfair.

    If hosts wish to utilise a daily limit, it absolutely needs to be addressed in the TOU. Otherwise, customers are not getting what was paid for.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    677
    can't comment much about DOS ... but my thoughts is that I guess the host should take the precautions against that without penalising the customers. While there's good or bad, and preferences as well, my thought is that it is best left as an option for customers. personally as a AWH customer, I won't like my bandwidth to be capped by days since usage can vary from day to day. In fact, when I first say this thread, I was a bit disgusted as it reminds me of the internet heydays (first offer a low price, and plan, and then slowly increase the price, lower the bandwidth and so on. Geocities anyone). To AWH credit, they had frozen the plans for early customers (so I had 60gb tho I don't even use 1gb a month yet as my site is not up). But I almost thought of leaving the host when I first saw this thread if not for the fact that my plan is lock in at a good package. But kudos to Ronnie for once again quickly reacting to customers feedback and pulling the daily limits.

  18. #18
    I agree. If I tell a custome that they get X gig per month.... That is what they get... if they chew through it in 20 days, I would contact them before hitting the limit, in order to reach a a solution.

    If there was a DOS attack, or other unusuall activity, then I would contact the customer asap.

    A daily BW limit may not be a bad thing, as long as a customer knows up front that that is how it works. However, I have several sites that have predicatble traffic by the day of the week..... so to facilitate that customer, the daily limit would have to be X gig, but many days that would go unused. During the month, however, they average out just fine given the monthly limits.

    Just my $0.02
    Glenn
    Don't you walk thru my words
    You got to show some respect
    Don't you walk thru my words
    'Cause you ain't heard me out yet

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    New Jersey
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    1,152
    I would like to make a point here. If you do not define the terms in which case a persons daily allocation of bandwidth is calculated you will be subjected to legal suits.

    Why? real easy, A client expects that they buy a monthly gross allocation of transit. If the client then goes out and spends money on advertising and you pull the site due to bandwidth activity, you can be held liable for lost revenue ( exceeding the cost of the monthly site cost )

    same thing goes for those that try to pull the CPU demand tricks on clients. Unless you state specificlly in you AUP ( not the TOS ) that a specific type of software is forbidden ( like phpnuke, or a forum ) you can not demand a client to upgrade. Same thing with the TOS, unless you state in the TOS that you will not allocate more than xy% of cpu to any users you may not ask them to upgrade.

    Many host think along the line's that "it's my server I host whom I want " well that's incorrect, you are now in contract law and have legal liabilities within that scope. Given 99.99% of most users will never exersize those legal fine points but all it takes is 1 client to cost you a fortune in legal bills.

    a good solution to bandwidth consuption is to send warning letters to a client when the get within 75% of there total purchased monthly allocation. then you can wheel and deal with the client to make sure they can purchase overages.
    I am Mike From ADEHOST.Com, Multidomain Windows hosting with Cold Fusion and ASP and Dot.NET Also offering multi-domain Unix hosting. silently, each one should ask, Have I done my daily task. Have I kept my honor bright, can I sleep without guilt tonight. Have I done and have I did, everything, to be prepared. - our motto to maintain services.

  20. #20
    Originally posted by alwaysweb

    What we are doing is taking the customer's monthly bandwidth limit, add 5-10 GB to it, and divide by 30 days to get a daily limit... If you hit that limit, then you'll see the notice you mentioned.

    Is this spelled out explicitly in the Agreement/Contract?

  21. #21
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Location
    Michigan
    Posts
    1,799
    Daily limits just don't make sense to the end user.
    My personal site gets well over 700MB transfer in one day on the weekends, but barely does 1 gig for the month in total. Not being available when one wants or needs it is useless, and I'd leave so fast you'd see flames where my account used to be.

    That sounds like the cell phone co's with their "anytime" minutes in addition to their "weekend" minutes. Then they total them up and tell you, that you are getting 1000's of minutes. They may as well rename "anytime" to "peaktime" Obviously they are encouraging people to use their phones less during peak time.
    I can see it now: Hosts advertising 1500 MB's and breaking it down to 500 "anytime" MB's and 1000 "weekend" MB's per month.
    DANG DANG! DANG!!
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  22. #22
    Personally I would prefer to receive an email from a web host saying something like "Your bandwidth usage is currently at 8Gb and as your limit is 10Gb, please review your usage in the next few days".
    I can then make an appropriate decision at that time.

    A better scenerio than receiving an email from a user saying "your site sucks, I got 404 error!".

    Off-topic, if I only use 5Gb per month (out of 10Gb), wouldn't it be logic to receive a "reward" at the end of a year?

    I don't really see the poiint in daily limit -- no doubt the usage would be higher during weekends. How does this policy address it?
    5 years time... will we see a policy on hourly bandwidth limit?

    PS: I am not involved in the web hosting industry (closest thing is I work in web industry -- big difference!) nor have an account with a web host -- found this interesting and thought I would involved.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Location
    Asia-Pacific
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    28
    I totally agree with ADEhost. No question about that.


    Originally posted by alwaysweb
    B I N G O - In AWH's case, a prime factor that led us to consider daily limit was actually two recent DOS attacks, that chewed through 250 - 300 GB in a matter of hours (60 - 70 mbps spike). Owee!
    ..but if you suspend a client's site because they have reached their daily cap, however, has not yet exceeded their monthly bandwidth limit (as advertised in your site)...isn't this in some shape or form, a Denial of Service?...not to mention a breach of trust...

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Dec 2001
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    344
    Originally posted by spolarium


    Is this spelled out explicitly in the Agreement/Contract?
    No, it wasn't. I appreciate everyone's feedback, daily limits were in place for oh... uhm.. about half a day.
    Ronnie T. Moore, Founder/Owner
    AlwaysWebHosting.com Friendly, feature-packed Cpanel hosting, that can't be beat!
    cPanel 11 Fantastico Multiple-Domain hosting (Host up to 25 domains with one account!)
    Sales/Support via phone, email, help desk, forums, FAQ's, instant messenger, live chat

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