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  1. #26
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    So we're naive because we sent an email for more information? Naive people usually don't get to a position where they could actually consider something of this magnitude. Any legitimate offer would have been preceded by a thorough perusal of their business plan, books, exit strategy and marketing campaign effectiveness to see how it would mesh with current plans. It's not like we just Paypal'd him a few grand.
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  2. #27
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    7out wrote:

    > Has it ever occured to you that a legitimate smaller company may very well put their company up for sale on these boards. Not everyone is trying to rip you off.

    Of course! I heartily agree!

    > I fail to see your logic here in telling us that everyone is naive that wants more info and that they should know that this is a scam.

    This guy is not making an offer, he is selling a false dream. I hope you're capable of seeing the difference between the two! Just read his post once more, word by word.

    Try to spend about 5 minutes in quiet. See how he's trying to trap you with figures, special sales months, total number of clients, potential annual revenue increases, and other marketing hype. Now ponder over the figures carefully and the related info for EACH figure. Then try to connect the figures and the info to each other. See if you can extract a logic out of them. Do they all make sense to you?

    > You also may want to show me how Vortech asking questions qualifies as getting "taken".

    Well, asking questions indicates failure to evaluate the initial proposal thoroughly. I said he was taken in by the "idea". Coz on the surface (meaning the head spinning with the dollar figures) it seems "too good an offer to miss". I'm saying "on the surface", "not on paper". Coz "on the surface" the offer is a good dream, and "on paper" it's just a magic trick, an illusion! (I hope you'll find that out when you go through the exercise.)

    If I am proven wrong I'll put up a notice of "apology", right here.

    NxTek wrote:

    > How could it be too good to be true when there was no asking price?

    He left the asking price to imagination, didn't he? A Nigerian scam, too, never says how much you'll need to fork out to lay your hands on a 1.5 million dollar non-existant fortune of an imaginary Nigerian prince. (Side remark: I'll never forget the day when some years ago my big brother rang me long-distance to ask my last-minute opinion on one of these Nigerian "proposals". I couldn't believe that he'd seriously been thinking on participating in it on the basis of a 1-page, seemingly official fax he'd received from this Nigerian prince - supposedly sent from his hide-out in Gambia!).

    But you see, the asking price isn't the question here. For me it is too good to be true because the figures are pointing to hype (peppered with non-sense) and deceit when connected to each other. Hint: Just try to do the exercise above with a pen and paper.

    skelley1 wrote:

    > Any legitimate offer would have been preceded by a thorough perusal of their business plan, books, exit strategy and marketing campaign effectiveness to see how it would mesh with current plans.

    Your approach about a thorough perusal of the business is very sensible. Think about it that way tho: If you'd seen 200 similar offers somewhere else (e.g. in your mailbox), would you have bothered writing to each one of them? Would you not first spend a few minutes to examine each offer on paper, separating the chaff from the wheat? The sensible from the non-sensical?
    Last edited by mistral1; 10-30-2002 at 09:11 PM.

  3. #28
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    if i were seeing 200 similar offers, I would be more picky as to whom I were taking the 30 seconds it takes to send an email to ask them to clarify the incongruencies I saw in their numbers. I think that maybe you are naive in assuming that we're just too stupid to realize that maybe this guy's pulling our leg.
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  4. #29
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    > to ask them to clarify the incongruencies I saw in their numbers

    So have you spotted any incongruencies in this guy's proposal? Can you give an example?

  5. #30
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    mistral1

    I appreciate that you are probably just trying to do good by making sure that no one here gets scammed. With that said, your posts do come off with a rather "I am smarter then you so let me make sure you dummies don't get suckered" type of attitude.

    This may not be your intention, but it is exactly how you are coming off to me. Case in point....asking skelley1 to point out any incongruencies that they have found in the proposal.

    <rant>
    Do you not take skelley1 at their word that they found incongruencies? Do you think you are the only one here smart enough to do that?

    Don't you think that if someone were very busy running their own company, as a lot of posters here are, that it may be more effective time wise for them to simply ask for more info and then investigate upon receiving something concrete that can be investigated???

    By the way...before even being graced with your infinite knowledge, I found that the numbers just did not add up. Some of the numbers could be true, but there is one flaw that I easily noticed within 3 seconds using the calculator on my keyboard. If you would like to check my math I can PM you the figures.

    I too noticed a lot of marketing hype, but I realize that there is another possible reason it is there other than a scam. Did it ever occur to you that someone who took a hosting company from nothing to $30,000+ per month in four years might know a thing or two about marketing???
    </rant>

    I know your intentions are good, but you will be better received around here if you treat people with a little more respect when talking to or about them.

    My $.02
    Last edited by 7out; 10-31-2002 at 02:48 AM.
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  6. #31
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    Originally posted by mistral1
    > to ask them to clarify the incongruencies I saw in their numbers

    So have you spotted any incongruencies in this guy's proposal? Can you give an example?
    Since you've decided to focus in so deeply into my posts, I figured I'd take a look at your previous posts. Seems as you've started quite a reputation in your few posts at WHT, as a troll. I wouldn't be suprised if you were actually hostingco4sa.

    I doubt seriously if anyone is going to answer about this offer, and you've managed to take it entirely off topic - and are focusing on keeping it there. The topic of this thread is a company for sale, not who can figure out what doesn't add up.

    Maybe you should join Mensa if you think you're so smart.
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  7. #32
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    I've got the best respect for you guys. I've no intentions to go on and on about this. I just found it extraordinary that you were trapped into asking for more info for an obvious scam.

    Let me put it that way: If that guy's post had a heading like: "This post is just a joke. Don't reply to it." Would you have sent the email? I don't think so. The point is, you couldn't see the joke, right? You took it seriously, as the guy instructed you to do so. You've been done! That's it.

    This has nothing to do with smartness, by the way. And I am not a troll in the slightest. This word is a cheap way to accuse someone when a piece of truth is exposed and you just can't take it.

    > I wouldn't be suprised if you were actually hostingco4sa.

    Another cheap shot.

    > Did it ever occur to you that someone who took a hosting company from nothing to $30,000+ per month ...

    Sorry, but even accepting the supposition that he makes $30,000+ per month (what you've been told) as a fact shows you haven't grasped the nettle yet.

    Good luck, and watch your step before someone tries to con you with a dream project!

  8. #33
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    Maybe if you'd just learn a little tact, people wouldn't be quite so much on the defensive when having a dialogue with you. My point was not a cheap shot, it was an actual statement. I would not be suprised if you were he. There was no insult intended, just my thought. You have a habit of jumping into threads and starting arguments. People like this also have a habit of starting threads with the sole intention of starting arguments.

    If you were to learn how to relate to others more effectively, you wouldn't have to deal with conversations like this, and wouldn't have to defend your position. Maybe you don't intend to be a troll, but that's what happens with your responses. I don't have much patience with people who insult me. Your posts did.
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  9. #34
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    mistral1

    You are so arrogant it is not funny. You really are rediculous.

    "trapped in to asking for more information" huh....has it ever occured to you that asking for more info may have been some other people's way of trying to expose the scam? Albeit with a little more tact than you, so I guess you can't relate.

    "you've been done"...."you took it seriously as the guy instructed you to"....you are really showing your ignorance here. Who determines, besides you, that someone has been "taken" just by taking 2 seconds to ask for more info? Do you really believe that everyone who asked for more info was taking it seriously? How do you know that someone did not read the thread and shoot off an email with the tone, "yeah right buddy, let's see some proof"?

    "Sorry, but even accepting the supposition that he makes $30,000+ per month (what you've been told) as a fact shows you haven't grasped the nettle yet."

    I have not accepted anything as the truth. I did not even ask for more info. But you know what, since you and you alone in your all mighty wisdom say that I did, then I guess I'm so weak minded that I have been taken. It must be so because you said so, right?

    The fact that you believe I accepted the numbers as fact shows your ingnorance and arrogance simultaneously. My only post about the numbers stated that they don't jive. I thought it would be clear enough (and apparently it is to everyone else reading this thread but you) that by me using the figure $30,000+ I would be able to make a general statement about the possibility that someone who built such a successful hosting company in a short time may know a thing about marketing.

    You totally missed the point here, as in most other snippets from people's posts that you disect. I originally thought that your intentions were good. I no longer have this same opinion about you. It seems as though you only wish to argue. That's fine with me...I love a spirited debate.

    The next time you draw conclusions about people's actions you may want to make sure they are based on factual information. That is unless your whole intent of pointing out how easily everyone here was "taken" was to start an argument. Does putting others down make you feel better about yourself?

    You know what, you don't even have to answer that last one, because going by your logic I can post what I believe to be true and all of us weak minded WHT'ers will take it as fact.
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  10. #35
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    Skelley1: I'll take your views on board.

    I don't jump into boards just to start an argument, though it may seem to be like that. I simply make a point which hopefully benefit others. I try to put forward the salient facts as they are. A few will get upset over what I say, but that's to be expected.

    And sorry if you felt insulted. That wasn't my intention.

  11. #36
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    7out: Your very first reply to my post in this thread showed to me that for some reason you are biased against me. I don't mind that. It's your right to be biased!

    If you feel that I'm arrogant because I'm speaking up the facts I can't do much about that either.

    > shoot off an email with the tone, "yeah right buddy, let's see some proof"?

    Are you not missing the point here? If you analyzed the proposal you'd find that the proof of it being a pack of hype and illusion is in the post itself. Why do you need to see more proof of it? Believing that the guy will respond to your enquiry because you want to see more of his lies, well ..... is just a bit far stretched! That's my opinion tho!

  12. #37
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    Originally posted by R. K. ****
    There is no way someone here could afford something like that; this is the place where we sell $5 templates
    I wouldnt say that, in fact probably a healthy percentage of hosts here could buy that company. Problem is this guy probably is just pulling everyones tail or just not serious about selling or he wouldn't leave everyone hanging.
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  13. #38
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    You are not "speaking up" the facts as you put it. You are insulting everyone's intelligence by talking down to everyone that does not share your opinion. I am not disputing that your posts about this offer being a fraud are incorrect. I am merely stating over and over that the way that you treat people who you are attempting to help is unreal.

    Maybe you are missing the point. How you decide to handle a proposal is one thing. How someone else decides to do it is their business. If someone decides that shooting off an email is better use of their time then picking apart the original post, then that is their perogative. I don't see why people must use your exact approach in order for them to have not been "taken".

    And for your information I did analyze the proposal. Take notes now....I did not ask for more information. I do not need you to prove to me that it is a pack of hype, I am perfectly capable of drawing my own conclusions thank you. I do not believe that the guy would respond to my inquiry (should I mention that I did not send an inquiry again, or do you not care to dispute concrete facts?). I fail to see how my thinking is stretched since none of the things you based your opinion on me and my actions on in your last paragraph are based on fact.

    I also fail to see how I have shown a bias towards you. Are you arrogant enough to think that I have been waiting in the shadows for you to make a post so that I can slam you? I've never noticed you on the boards until now. I guess since my first contact with you was not as positive as you would like, I must have had some prejudice against you.

    My feeling towards you are based solely on the tone of your posts. If your original post were worded more like "I don't know about this offer guys...check the numbers closely" or something that would be helpful to anyone who may have less business savvy without being offending, I would not have written the first thing to you.
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  14. #39
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    Thanks 7out for your comments. I'll take your views on board.

    Sorry if you got offended.

    > If someone decides that shooting off an email is better use of their time then picking apart the original post, then that is their perogative.

    I agree.

  15. #40
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    No problem.

    Guess I'll actually have to do some work now that we're done debating
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