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  1. #1
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    adding to Search Engines

    There are soooooooo many search Engines out there and i see tons of sites that would love to take your money ... But are there any sites that will submit it for free??? instead of going to each site and taking for ever?

  2. #2
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    Originally posted by SeanK
    There are soooooooo many search Engines out there and i see tons of sites that would love to take your money ... But are there any sites that will submit it for free??? instead of going to each site and taking for ever?
    Actually, there aren't that many search engines "out there." You probably got that misperception from some service that was offering to submit your site to a few hundred, or a few thousand, of them... or else your information is very much out of date. There are only a handful of relevant search engines and directories today, unless you include vertical market directories (for example, if you're a webhost you could include hosting directories).

    There are plenty of free submission sites, and various programs and scripts. But I wouldn't recommend using any of them. And I wouldn't recommend using most of the paid ones either.

    If your site's ready for submission, spend the time you'd take submitting the info to a submission service on submitting to the Open Directory Project at dmoz.org instead. DMOZ is used as a starting point for spidering by most of the major search engines, inlcuding -- importantly -- Google. Then sit back and wait.

    If you want to speed things up, submit manually to AltaVista, AllTheWeb (FAST), and just to be safe, Google. Really, that's it as far as major search engines and directories that currently accept free submissions... and each of them (except DMOZ) spider extensively as well, and so will eventually add your site even if you don't submit.

    The difficult thing isn't getting into search engines, it's being ranked well for worthwhile search terms. Any submission service that doesn't correctly deal with elements that will affect your rankings isn't worth either the money or the time.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  3. #3
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    ^
    <Edit> - Jay posted at the same time as me & covers it in more detail than my post below </EDIT>


    There really isn't that many search engines that count. Google has a big market share now (Google + AOL + Yahoo + Netscape + Earthlink....the list goes on) - There is MSN and Altavista.

    Really the only place you need to submit to get spidered by all the search engines is DMOZ - it's free.

    You could do pay for spidering at Inktomi - which will get you somewhere in MSN - with the emphasis on "somewhere"

    Maybe your post relates to host directory search engines - if so, there is no tool to submit to multiple sites.
    Andrew McMaster
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  4. #4
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    There are many sites out there that allow you to submit for free. Some control panals even allow submission to the most popular for free.
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  5. #5
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    It just takes time

  6. #6

    Rely on Search Engines?

    So, after submitting to DMOZ and getting into the main search engines that are used across all the hundreds of search engine sites, how much business would you say you get from having a decent ranking?

    My question, is there a decent amount of business to be grabbed from people wondering the internet? Or should a site have other advertising ideas in mind?
    Jesse Padilla
    pluginbox.com

  7. #7
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    I actually went into this subject with my head in my ass and paid a company...

    After $100+ and 6 months down the road, my site is ranked like crap.

    www.sitescreamer.com

    pure poop

  8. #8
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    Re: Rely on Search Engines?

    Originally posted by jessep
    My question, is there a decent amount of business to be grabbed from people wondering the internet? Or should a site have other advertising ideas in mind?
    That's a good question, but one without a simple answer. To a large extent, really, it depends on the business you're in -- how competitive the search engine environment is for your business, and how many searches are performed for it anyway.

    Without a doubt, many sites get a great deal of search engine traffic, and that includes many hosting sites. But do a search for "web hosting" at Google and you'll see they've indexed over three million pages containing those words. There are lots of searches for "web hosting;" it's one of the more popular search terms. If you're number one or three or even ten you'll get a lot of traffic off of it. Now do a search for "poi english muffins." It returns 289 pages. My dog could get a good ranking with that level of competition, so judge for yourself how impressive it'll be when he puts it on his resume... but even if he manages to get a number one ranking for somone's muffin site, how much traffic will it bring in?

    (Yes, that example is relevant to this thread, but I don't want to pick on anybody )

    So the point is that there are any number of commercial sites for which free search engine listings are a crucial, if not the major, source of traffic. At the same time, there are many that have to rely on other sources. And no matter how much traffic you get from search engines, keep in mind that diversification of traffic sources is a good idea. If you start getting 90% of your sales from, for example, Google-generated traffic, will you survive if (as has happened) a technical glitch on their end drops you out of the index for a month?
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  9. #9
    Well said, JayC. I want to add that even you get listed in the top of some search engines, there is no guarantee that people will signup with you so the next thing to do is to make your services competitive.
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  10. #10
    Oi! 8-/

    You said a lot of what I thought you might have said. There is only one more question. Is it worth listing with search engines because if you are in the 3rd or further page in the "web host" search you won't be getting any traffic and your hour spent putting your site there is worthless.

    I have also heard that Google ranks the sites based on how often they are clicked and how long the user stays on the site. To get a good ranking you need to trick the user to say on your web site?
    Jesse Padilla
    pluginbox.com

  11. #11
    You can always approach a SEO specialist for a fee .. probably $1500 and they can try and get you into the top 10 spot ...
    http://search.dmoz.org/cgi-bin/search?search=seo
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by jessep
    Oi! 8-/

    You said a lot of what I thought you might have said. There is only one more question. Is it worth listing with search engines because if you are in the 3rd or further page in the "web host" search you won't be getting any traffic and your hour spent putting your site there is worthless.
    If you're on page 3, you won't get many valid hits. Or any, probably. But if you're talking about just submitting, it won't take an hour to get that weak listing. Without a doubt, though, that's the problem with "minimal SEO" in competitive areas -- if you go through the minimal bother of, say, tweaking heading tags and meta tags (speaking of wastes of time) you won't get results. By the same token, paying someone to do that level of work is a waste of money.

    Effective positioning in competitive areas takes a lot of work, and will likely take a few months of work for results to show. And all that work from someone who knows what they're doing is going to come at a price... if you pay $100 for SEO work in a competitive business area you'll probably be disappointed in the results -- on the other hand you might fall into good ranking for some relatively obscure phrase and do quite well. Often enough people just stumble into good rankings; it's happened to me: you happen to have a phrase on your page that you didn't even consider someone might search for, and suddenly find dozens of people a month actually do. You don't have to rank well for "web hosting" to bring in hosting-related traffic.
    I have also heard that Google ranks the sites based on how often they are clicked and how long the user stays on the site. To get a good ranking you need to trick the user to say on your web site?
    Don't believe everything you hear.

    That's not true, at least for Google's normal listings. The clickthru rate is, along with the amount paid per click, what decides placement of paid AdWords listings (the ads on the right margin), but the main listings use only on-page and linking elements in determining ranking.

    "How long the user stays on the site" has never been used by Google, but is/has been used elsewhere. Actually it's whether the user comes back to the search results page and tries another click; the search engine can't really tell if you go somewhere else from the page they send you to.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  13. #13
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    There are soooooooo many search Engines out there and i see tons of sites that would love to take your money ... But are there any sites that will submit it for free??? instead of going to each site and taking for ever?

    I personally would recommend yo not to use any of these free sites expecially the ones that auto submit because nowadays SE robots are very intelligent and they reject all the automated submissions..The best thing to do is to submit them manually..

  14. #14
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    how does google work?

    what does it take to be no1?
    how do they count?

  15. #15
    JayC, you are a wealth of information. Thank you! too much competition on listings for me to bother with. I'll have to come up with other clever ad ideas.
    Jesse Padilla
    pluginbox.com

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by Johan H
    how does google work?

    what does it take to be no1?
    how do they count?
    That is the million dollar question

  17. #17
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    how does google work?
    Well, only google knows the fine details of how they rank sites, and it does change somewhat month to month, but the main factor for google is to have other sites link to your site. Then these links themselves need to be relevant and the more links that these sites have themselves improves the value of the link to your site.

    Then, having the relevant words on your page is important & having them in your title.

    If you install the Google taskbar - you can see the PageRank of any site you visit & also easily check how many backward links a site has.
    Andrew McMaster
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  18. #18
    I love google the best for a search engine.

  19. I would like to recommend http://submit.bidseek.net - one of our clients use them, and currently have a lot of traffic from Google, Yahoo! and AltaVista (according to access_log file)

  20. #20
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    My recommendation to anybody reading this thread is to avoid that bidseek site unless you want waste some money & maybe get dropped / banned from search engines

    They submit to thousands of FFA pages that will get you nothing but an inbox full of junk mail.

    Interestingly that site seems to have a PR 0 penalty from google on some of the internal pages.

    Really - just avoid these types of sites. You'll get less than nothing for your money.

    The best thing you can do is submit your site to www.dmoz.com for free & then you will get into every search engine without any further effort.
    Last edited by NovaW; 10-25-2002 at 06:06 AM.
    Andrew McMaster
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  21. #21
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    Agree with NovaW. In fact, avoid anyone and any site with proposal to submit your site to hundreds or thousands of search engines. It does more harm than good.

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by NovaW
    They submit to thousands of FFA pages that will get you nothing but an inbox full of junk mail.

    Interestingly that site seems to have a PR 0 penalty from google on some of the internal pages.
    Also, their list of search engines, even the "24 major search engines" that they supposedly submit to contains at best outdated information... there are redundancies (where a submission to one of those listed is the only way to get into another), there are search engines that aren't currently accepting submissions, and there are sites that no longer exist as independant search resources.
    Specializing in SEO and PPC management.

  23. #23
    Avoid FFAs and linkfarms ... Google penalizes sites who use them. Basically they are lame and useless hype.
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  24. #24
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    what is PR 0?

  25. #25
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    iKHost go over to Google.com and download the toolbar and you'll see what they mean. PR stands for Page Rank.

  26. #26
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    what is PR 0?
    PR 0 = PageRank 0

    Pagerank is normally between 1 and 10. 10 is the best (Yahoo, MSN, Google etc are 10). It's a log scale so there is a big jump between 5 - 6, an even bigger jump between 6 & 7 and so on.

    PageRank is one of the factors that Google uses to decide where to list your site in the search results. Other sites linking to your site determines what level of PageRank a site is at.

    PR 0 = a google penalty, i.e means the site has been caught in dodgy spam type practices. PR 0 means you are dead to Google.

    So - the fact that the Bidseek site has PR0 pages & it sells search engine listing services means they are a joke. There isn't too much difference scam wise between these type of "services" and letters from Nigeria.

    As omni mentions - go download the google toolbar - it will provide you a whole new way to look at the web. You can judge in an instant how "currently important" any site is that you visit.
    Andrew McMaster
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  27. #27
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    oh, that explains a lot. I am always hesitant to install those tooplbars like Yahoo's and Alexa.

  28. #28
    http://worldsubmitter.com
    Do not put in your real email or you will see a tone of spam.
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  29. #29
    I didn't think google bothered to crawl ffas
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  30. #30
    Originally posted by iKHost
    oh, that explains a lot. I am always hesitant to install those tooplbars like Yahoo's and Alexa.
    Basically I only use the Alexa and Google bars ... the rest aren't very useful if you are talking about marketing.
    Web Hosting Stuff - Over 10,000+ Hosting Companies Listed
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  31. #31
    Is the PR on the google toolbar automatically 0 if your aren't listed yet with Google? Or does it just use the content of the page?

  32. #32
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    Is the PR on the google toolbar automatically 0 if your aren't listed yet with Google? Or does it just use the content of the page?
    No, typically if you are not in the google index - then the toolbar pagerank indicator will be greyed out. If it is white but there is no green PR level - then it is PR 0 - which typically means that the site has received a penalty.

    Things that can cause a penalty

    - Heavy cross linking of multiple sites
    - Linking out to a "bad neighbourhood" - another PR0 site, or say something like a casino site
    - Being caught using hidden text etc - although that one is probably less likely to cause a PR0

    Once you have a penalty - you may as well get a new domain or pray to the google gods.
    Andrew McMaster
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