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Thread: webreseller bitchy strategies
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10-16-2002, 07:03 PM #1Junior Guru Wannabe
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webreseller bitchy strategies
Hi all,
beware of Webreseller's bitchy strategies regarding upgrade to Ensim 3.1.1. They offer upgrade from Ensim 3.0 to Ensim 3.1.1 for $49.95, but if you order it, you get no Tomcat.
They offer some kind of "full" upgrade, but when you ask for Tomcat, they charge extra US $30 for it. Otherwise you don't get sh*t.
Here is the tricky email they send you:
------Webreseller--------
Dear WebReseller.Net customer,
We are now announcing that Ensim Webppliance 3.1.1 (for Linux) is
available!
Upgrade for increased stability, new features, and current security
fixes.
Some of the new features of Webppliance 3.1.1 are:
- New reseller administrator level
- Redhat 7.2 compatible
- Tomcat 4 supported
- Repair options for protected directories
- Multi-lingual support
- Online help in many languages
- Development tools (gcc, g++, make, java) available at site level
The following are just a few samples of the software packages that are
upgraded:
Webppliance 3.0.x ----------> Webppliance 3.1.1
Apache/1.3.19 ----------> Apache/1.3.22
mod_perl/1.24_01 ----------> mod_perl/1.24_01
PHP/4.0.6 ----------> PHP/4.2.2
FrontPage/5.0.2 ----------> FrontPage/5.0.2
mod_ssl/2.8.1 ----------> mod_ssl/2.8.5
OpenSSL/0.9.6 ----------> OpenSSL/0.9.6b (patched)
Don\'t get left behind! Get your system upgraded today by a professional.
The cost of this upgrade is US$49.95 if you are upgrading from Webppliance
3.0.x. If you are using Webppliance 3.1.0 the upgrade is free. Please
contact sales if you would like an upgrade from Webppliance 2.x as it is
no longer officially supported by us.
You can find your current Ensim Webppliance version by logging in to your
Appliance Administrator and looking at the top center. It should say
\" : Appliance Administrator 3.x.x-x\"
Please visit http://www.webreseller.net/ProSer/addensim.htm or e-mail
sales@webreseller.net.
-The WebReseller.Net Staff
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10-16-2002, 07:20 PM #2Web Hosting Guru
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It saids Tomcat is supported, nothing on it going along with the package. Don't see any problems with the offer personally.
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10-16-2002, 07:22 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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This is a free upgrde from Ensim. Is this the charge if you do not want to do it yourself? If so, that is fair. Or is this mandatory payment and only they can upgrade it for you? If they force you to upgrade to a free ensim upgrade that fixes numerous security issues, that doesn't seem to fair.
The Tomcat issue can be understandable. It is a huge resource hog and a support nightmare.
As a side note, the 3.0/3.1 ==> 3.1.1 upgrade will result in downtime. Each site is suspended one at a time. Once the upgrade is done, the sites are re-enabled - one at a time. So if you do this, have them do it at night. We average 2 - 3 hours for servers with 250 - 300 sites for the upgrade to complete. Just FYI.
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10-16-2002, 07:25 PM #4Junior Guru Wannabe
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mod_perl/1.24_01 ----------> mod_perl/1.24_01
FrontPage/5.0.2 ----------> FrontPage/5.0.2Unfortunately, life does not come with documentation.
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10-16-2002, 07:31 PM #5Junior Guru Wannabe
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If they offer an upgrade, and they plan to extra-charge for Tomcat upgrade (which is enabled by default by Ensim's patch) they should have advised it beforehand, not after people paid for the upgrade.
I think this is really bad business practice. I would never do such a thing with my customers, it's really unfair.
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10-16-2002, 07:37 PM #6Junior Guru Wannabe
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I was told by one of their sales staff that Tomcat was included with ensim but to charge for it?
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10-16-2002, 07:47 PM #7Junior Guru Wannabe
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They never say you won't get fu**ing tomcat. They just offer an upgrade to 3.1.1 for US $49.95.
When you agree to pay that money, you get no tomcat. You ask about it and you get this reply:
"Tomcat is an optional installation and can be done for $30. We\'ll need the first and last 4 digits of your credit card as confirmation if you would like us to install it."
After complaining about unfair biz practices, I got this answer:
"This is just stating that it is supported, not that it is included: previously, we did not support tomcat. Please advise whether or not you would like to have it installed for the given fee."
I think this kind of handling is absolute crap. People must be able to decide if they want a "partial" upgrade for almost $50 or a full upgrade for $80, but they must know in advance, not after they have charged 50 bucks for some kind of upgrade (I really don't know if they have chopped another part of the upgrade package).
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10-16-2002, 07:54 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by UmBillyCord
This is a free upgrde from Ensim. Is this the charge if you do not want to do it yourself? If so, that is fair. Or is this mandatory payment and only they can upgrade it for you? If they force you to upgrade to a free ensim upgrade that fixes numerous security issues, that doesn't seem to fair.
B. ServerXchange version allows us to update your server with the newest Security releases and patches, once again, if you were with Rackshack (you would be on a system that costs about $400 max, our systems start at $1000.00 +), you would get NO security updates or patches. We do this automatically through Server Xchange.
C. The upgrade you see ensim is if you own the License (rackshack owns it) and know how to install it.
The upgrade fee is $49.95, it's only a one time upgrade fee. To do a format and reload will cost you about the same. Keep in mind, this takes a good 30 minutes of a techs time to do it right.
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10-16-2002, 08:06 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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True, SX versions can only be upgraded by SX.
Well, they don't know SX then if it takes a tech 30 minutes - no offense. SX has an excellent mass upgarde option that will upgrade ALL your servers in the system, instantally. As long as you keep your servers up to date prior, you shouldn't have any conflicts. Also, the Tomcat install delivered from SX takes 5 minutes - tops. It too is free.
But it is there choice as a company on what to bill for.
once again, if you were with Rackshack (you would be on a system that costs about $400 max, our systems start at $1000.00 +), you would get NO security updates or patches.Last edited by BeDifferentSolutions; 10-16-2002 at 08:12 PM.
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10-16-2002, 08:42 PM #10Junior Guru Wannabe
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Did any of you guys get charged $49.95 for upgrading from 3.1 to 3.1.1?
I thought this was free? I sent an email to them, but haven't received a reply.
Am I going insane?
jthttp://myrmid.com
Affordable hosting for people who need lots of space and bandwidth. Personal plans available as well.
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10-16-2002, 08:42 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by UmBillyCord
This makes no sense. $1000??? Also, 3.1.1 really is just a patch that fixes some bugs and security issues. There isn't much functionality changes from 3.0, so contrary to what they say, looks like you are paying for patches and security updates.
As for regular security updates under ServerXchange, I wouldn't put too much faith in that happening - in the six months I've had my sx-controlled machines, I've had to install all the RedHat and Webppliance patches/upgrades released during that time myself - with the obvious exception of the 3.1.1 upgrade.
-Bob
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10-16-2002, 08:43 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by JDTurbeville
Did any of you guys get charged $49.95 for upgrading from 3.1 to 3.1.1?
-Bob
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10-16-2002, 11:07 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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As for regular security updates under ServerXchange, I wouldn't put too much faith in that happening - in the six months I've had my sx-controlled machines, I've had to install all the RedHat and Webppliance patches/upgrades released during that time myself - with the obvious exception of the 3.1.1 upgrade.
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10-17-2002, 03:20 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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Inside stuff of hosting companies....
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10-17-2002, 03:46 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by UmBillyCord
Overall, we have not seen this. Compared to Cobalt and Plesk (what we have used before), they are no slower, certainly faster then Cobalt - even when Cobalt was Cobalt. Not sure how they stack against HSpere or CPanel.
Are you running machines under ServerXchange, or do you administer an entire ServerXchange system? I ask because I'm curious as to how and to what extent ServerXchange is supposed to handle updates and patches, and whether this is an entirely automated process?
Lets take the past few months for example - there were security updates for (at least) bind, openssh, openssl, the apache chunked encoding thing (for which Ensim released their own patch), as well as one or two other Ensim-specific patches. Should any of these have been handled by serverxchange, and if so, would it have been a completely automatic process, or would it have required any input or intervention from the people administering the serverxchange system?
Thanks,
-BobLast edited by TMX; 10-17-2002 at 04:02 PM.
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10-17-2002, 07:21 PM #16Disabled
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A full list of patches can be made available, there are differences between the LS and Exchange version... The letter that was sent out said "Tomcat Support", and to install it can take some time. Many of the patches that are sent out from Ensim are installed in a mass upgrade and customers are not notified.
We are hearing from a group of a few customers, there are many customer that we have that are very much aware of the patches we have done.
Semi-Managed is clearly defined in our dedicated section, we offer full support with control-panel questions, general information, and many times (not all) if a customer messes up their server we have fixed it in the past if it's only happened once or twice and it will not take too much time. Let's face it, there are many customers on this forum that use Rackshack.Net, I feel as though there is nothing bad to be said about them, HOWEVER, the difference with us is that if you have a problem with your server, we will exhaust every resource to try to fix it and not do the format and reload solution... We have even had drive experts come in to try to save customers data if a drive failed, and that might I add, was on an unmanaged server... The upgrade from 3.0 - 3.1 was almost like getting a new product...
The quote that was given DID NOT contain the entire message, there were discussions of the price we charge in comparison to a company like rackshack.net, and we use hardware that is more expensive for the most part. I do not think anyone can deny that the tower cases being sold compare price wise to an IBM 300 or now 305 server.
adad, we told you in the help ticket that there would be a fee to install it and you agreed to it. We installed it promptly for you. I will be happy to provide you a credit for 1/2 the install on it, but I ask you this question and please take no offense... If you were to be with a company that offers unmanaged systems or for that-matter even semi-managed, and you called them and said can you please install something for me ? I think they would say NO or that there would be a fee. Professional services are vital to any hosting company and the bottom line is that it takes a trained tech to install many of these things... Tomcat also requires the virtualization aspect.... I m very sorry if the mail that was sent was vague about Tomcat, however, we have had about 40 other inquires about Tomcat and there were no problems. This would be the first reported complaint about this, but as mentioned, we will be happy to credit 1/2 of it back to you.
The upgrades from 3.0 to 3.1 were nice and there were more things added. If you had 3.1 you should NOT have been charged for the upgrade, it was free.. The order form did not allow for the entering up current version... No problems at all getting this taken care of, just send something to billing@webreseller.net.
The bottom line in all of this is that Webreseller.Net tries very hard to do anything we can for our customers and we value everyone immensely. Errors can happen from time to time and we have to deal with them. We are in the business of showing a profit and not a loss, by just giving away free services and installs we can not stay in business. Many of the customers that use WHT will attest to the fact that there are many things that have been done for them that at most places you would be charged for.
I hope this has cleared up many things, and adad we are very sorry about the confusion and wish you the VERY best with your business...
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10-17-2002, 10:15 PM #17Junior Guru
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Yeah - I'm going to have to agree with WebReseller on this one, they really do do anything they can for their customers and hopefully their success shows it
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10-17-2002, 10:31 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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Hey Bob.
Yes, we have been running SX itself since 2000. While it started a lemon, it has gotten better in the server patch and update arena. The new release included the new mass upgrade option which was long over due, but a great addition. We uploaded 100s of services and versions, scattered across a lot of servers (VDSs too) in the matter of minutes. Sure there were some small issues, but overall, it ran great.
Ensim has a system called APPxchange where SX connects too and downloads the latest patches, updates, etc... Once loaded onto SX, you then find what servers in your farm (across multiple datacenters if need be) and load the patches. So, to answer your question - Yes. Everyone of those patches was taken care of by SX. Now it is not automatic. You manually decide which servers to upgrade.
Another benifit, is that teh new Windows patches are also upgraded through SX. We only ahve a few Windows servers, so not sure how well it worked with them.
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10-17-2002, 10:34 PM #19Disabled
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They work very well with the Windows as well... Good luck with everything
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10-17-2002, 11:46 PM #20Web Hosting Master
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One of the things I noticed reading hte RS forum is that many many people who installed the 3.0 -> 3.1.1 upgrade themselves ended up with servere problems (servers crashing every so many hours, apache not coming back up, webppliance not coming backup, etc.). I would assume that for $50 webreseller would troubleshoot any problems that were created for free, so I don't think the charge is out of line for a gauranteed trouble-free upgrade.
Dedicated Servers at Steadfast Networks and Softlayer : Virutal Hosting at FutureQuest : VPS at FutureHosting
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10-18-2002, 12:01 AM #21Junior Guru Wannabe
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Webreseller have done right by us. Any issues we have had have been resolved in a timely manner and tech support is first class.
well done
Scotthttp://www.boinghosting.com.au
put the boing back into your site
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10-18-2002, 12:49 AM #22Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by UmBillyCord
Yes, we have been running SX itself since 2000. While it started a lemon, it has gotten better in the server patch and update arena.
-Bob
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10-18-2002, 04:11 AM #23Junior Guru Wannabe
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Originally posted by webreseller
The letter that was sent out said "Tomcat Support", and to install it can take some time. Many of the patches that are sent out from Ensim are installed in a mass upgrade and customers are not notified. [...]
adad, we told you in the help ticket that there would be a fee to install it and you agreed to it.
We installed it promptly for you. I will be happy to provide you a credit for 1/2 the install on it, but I ask you this question and please take no offense...
If you were to be with a company that offers unmanaged systems or for that-matter even semi-managed, and you called them and said can you please install something for me ? I think they would say NO or that there would be a fee.
Professional services are vital to any hosting company and the bottom line is that it takes a trained tech to install many of these things... Tomcat also requires the virtualization aspect.... I m very sorry if the mail that was sent was vague about Tomcat, however, we have had about 40 other inquires about Tomcat and there were no problems. This would be the first reported complaint about this, but as mentioned, we will be happy to credit 1/2 of it back to you.
I understand no one can do everything for free. I want you to stay in business and of course make a lot of money with your work. I've never asked you to install the upgrade for free.
I hope this has cleared up many things, and adad we are very sorry about the confusion and wish you the VERY best with your business...