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10-11-2002, 05:52 PM #1Newbie
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how many hosts are serious and how many are hacks?
I've been doing my research on starting a hosting business and found this board about a week ago. Great board by the way, I have learned a ton.
One thing I learned is there seems to be quite a few total hacks out there. Maybe the barriers to entry are too low in this business. It is kind of scary. It seems like a lot of people just decide to start a hosting business and do it. No business plan, no capital, no concept of how to become profitable. So then they acquire a few customers, run out of money, and then boom, out of business. Poor customers. What is the average life span of these types?
I also see that there are a lot very professional people running hosting businesses. It is easy to tell who is who and who will be around in a year.
So my question (sorry for the long intro)... Of all the hosts out there (primarily smaller hosts) what percentage would you say are run by serious business people who will be around for a while and what percentage are run by hacks, etc.?
I am mostly interested in hearing from the non-hacks.
Thanks!
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10-11-2002, 05:56 PM #2Dennis Johnson
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Re: how many hosts are serious and how many are hacks?
Originally posted by sitesolid
. . . . . Of all the hosts out there (primarily smaller hosts) what percentage would you say are run by serious business people who will be around for a while and what percentage are run by hacks, etc.?. . . . . .There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.
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10-11-2002, 06:05 PM #3Web Hosting Master
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Well...I am just a hack...so you wouldn't want my opinion anyway. But welcome to the board. Oh...forgot..I am not a host either...double irrelevant! Oh well...on to another post.
Simon
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10-11-2002, 06:11 PM #4Web Hosting Evangelist
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Sadly, in most cases you'll never really know who are the serious professionals and who are the "hacks" unless you get to know some of the staff working at a company.
* Check a company's WHOIS record.
* Reverse their IPs on Arin.net or Netcraft.com and see where they're hosted.
* See if they have a DUNS number.
* See if they're incorporated or LLC.
* Search the WHT forums about them! Ask around.
If you're looking for a strong pulse and a signal they're be around in a year, see if the company does more than just host websites.
If they're pure resellers and you're looking to host mission-critical data, don't bother. If they're a serious business, they'll eventually mature into colo on leased or owned equipment. Generally these people, however well-meaning, will be powerless to solve server issues. You're, in turn, at the mercy of your hosts upstream providers.
I'd like to think most people are serious about starting their webhosting company -- but many are probably blinded by the success stories; the "If I can do it, you can do it" mentality of our culture.Jeff Standen, Software Architect, Cerb
Cerb - web-based teamwork and workflow automation - https://cerb.ai/
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10-12-2002, 07:26 AM #5Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by jstanden
the "If I can do it, you can do it" mentality of our culture.
I've come across a lot of people who I believe to be complete idiots. It doesn't cease to amaze me that they actually run a business and make a very nice living from it... it makes me question their idiocy again, turns out they are still idiots, but they are successful idiots!
My point: I think it's these type of people who forge the "if that ***** can run a business, and i'm smarter than him, i can make a killing" mentality.
John Doe, CEO of Aerospace Industries International, doesn't seem to have many people thinking he is an idiot and, in turn, have competition opening up left and right (totally fictious analogy).
Let's just face it, to get a reseller account or a managed server is almost a no-brain operation. Anyone with money can do it.
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10-12-2002, 12:14 PM #6Web Hosting Guru
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Thats true, Joe Doe of Aerospace Industries wouldnt have a lot of competition....but then again what does it take to open an aerospace business ? Billions, maybe tens or hundreds of billions.
Webhosting ? A couple hundred bucks, so its easy to get in at the basement level.
(And IMHO, that is NOT necessarily a BAD thing either. Just think of how many creative ventures in high-priced-startup industries such as the auto industry are kept out due to high costs, and an almost "old boys network" in place.
Maybe one of these new startups will have a concept or marketing strategy that will turn webhosting into a gigantic industry, bigger than oil or whatever.)
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10-12-2002, 12:52 PM #7Junior Guru Wannabe
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I think you have a slight problem in what a "hack" is and what a "real business" is.
You say a hack has:
1. Capital, 2. A business plan, 3. No concept of how to become profitable.
I say:
Just because someone has 1. Capital, 2. A Business plan, 3. A theory on how to become DOES NOT mean they aren't "Hacks." Enron had all 3 of those, looke where they are now.
All due respect to UnitedColo but they seem to have all three of those but people keep getting servers that aren't set up properly(or so they say), and they don't seem to have a very knowledgeable tech department (from what I've read, it's just an expample.)
I think you need to ask your self if not blowing a $100k on 1.2 ghz celerons is a bad idea or a good idea.
Anyone follow me?
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10-12-2002, 01:01 PM #8Web Hosting Master
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It's hard to give a percentage defining how many hosts will fail, and how many will succeed. As you pointed out in your post though, it's normally pretty easy to spot potential failures...
MattMatthew Russell | Namecheap
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10-12-2002, 03:04 PM #9Web Hosting Master
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It's difficult to tell who's in this for short-term or long term. Usually people are in for a long tim but fall short because they thought it was easy.
But like mentioned before, it's usually easy to see potential failure business.
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10-12-2002, 04:13 PM #10Disabled
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Enron had all 3 of those, look where they are now.
I would have to say and yes it would be a Vague guess that resellers are about 30% of the market of course that's the reselling option non the actual resellers most resellers no to discourage bail out after a couple months usually when they start getting emails for support and they just want to be at the beach.
Hiring a support staff is not possible with a resellers income so they have to do all the support.
I always recommend emailing a company and checking there response time or the true test is if they answer the phone those companies are serious about support and to me that separates a hack in my terminology.
The 30% thing was based on our company and our partners companies. Collectable the resellers are about 20-30%
I highly recommend even with the best plan ever known to the hosting business is to start as a reseller. Then learn from a good company even for 6 months or a year learn what they do ask questions then either partner with then or if you don't usually they won't mind helping you just for the business. And you will part from a great relationship.
I personally like it when our resellers move on to their own server then buy a rack we are glad to be a part in the beginning
Anyways my point is reselling could be a wise move now matter how business savvy your plan is.
Wow I better shut up usually my posts are about 3 sentences.
Good luck,
Charles
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10-12-2002, 04:58 PM #11Web Hosting Master
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All I have to say, I don't care how much money they have, how big they are, etc.
How good is their service?
Ahem, C_I Host? They have tons of $, they are huge, they have been around for a very long time. Are they a solid business? Sure seems like it, but how is their service?
my $.02L. James Prevo - President/Owner
Prevo Network, LLC - http://www.prevo.net
Est. 1999 - Month to Month Billing!!
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10-12-2002, 05:13 PM #12Web Hosting Master
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ljprevo: IMO those are two complete different things. A legit business doesn't necessarily have a good product/service. A good number of times (not necessarily in hosting) the difference between success and failure is not the quality.
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10-12-2002, 05:19 PM #13Web Hosting Master
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Originally posted by dbodner
ljprevo: IMO those are two complete different things. A legit business doesn't necessarily have a good product/service. A good number of times (not necessarily in hosting) the difference between success and failure is not the quality.
What I am saying is in hosting, there are mom and pop/one person businesses that provide better service than a well established "professional" business. Not always the case that the "big guy" is better.Last edited by ljprevo; 10-12-2002 at 07:09 PM.
L. James Prevo - President/Owner
Prevo Network, LLC - http://www.prevo.net
Est. 1999 - Month to Month Billing!!
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10-12-2002, 07:01 PM #14Web Hosting Master
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ljprevo,
completely agree. several hosts here on wht are one-person operations with a low budget and guess what? they are doing fine and provide excellent services, because the people running them are knowledgeable and competent.
paul* Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
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10-12-2002, 07:13 PM #15Web Hosting Master
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the above of course applies to people who have their own servers, as resellers are at the mercy of the host when it comes to server problems.
paul* Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
* Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us
dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters
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10-12-2002, 07:54 PM #16Web Hosting Master
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"What I am saying is in hosting, there are mom and pop/one person businesses that provide better service than a well established "professional" business. Not always the case that the "big guy" is better."
With that I agree 100%
But you can have a sound business plan, make solid business decisions, and still not provide a good service. In that case, the company may still be around in one year, two years, etc and be a solid and legitimate (yet bad quality) business.
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10-12-2002, 08:23 PM #17Newbie
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Thanks for all of the feedback. Interesting opinions.
Yeah, I'm really concerned with the "one man show" that only has a few bucks, limited vision, and lacks the desire to pull through during the tough times. I think these are the folks who could really hurt their customers and damage the public's perception of the industry.
One may be a great auto mechanic with a solid, honest business, but he faces the obstacle of poor public perception thanks to all of the hacks that preceded him. I worry that this industry is going to end up like that. I guess that could be a good thing if you can prove yourself.
I can see that there are a lot of serious, intelligent, and honest folks around here. I just have to make sure that I do business with them and not the “hacks” by accident.
Thanks again for your input.
Greg
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10-12-2002, 09:45 PM #18Web Hosting Master
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What worries me is the 13 to 14 yr [business registered under parent's names] olds buying servers off ebay and then coloing them wherever and calling themselves "dedicated server providers".
It takes a 24*7 commitment and the right people on your team, to build a successful hosting business. Like all businesses, if it's not run as a business [carefully managing cashflows, clients etc], then it won't be in business for too long.• WLVPN.com • NetProtect owned White Label VPN provider •
• Increase your hosting profits by adding VPN to your product line up •
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10-12-2002, 09:59 PM #19Web Hosting Master
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I would say the word successful is interpreted different by many different people. IMHO, you can be become a successful web host if you give 110% effort at it and have a good business plan. Somehow, somebody looking for web hosting will end up at your site and like what they see (if your business plan is well rounded). Successful for one web host might mean keeping a steady profit coming in. For another, it might mean competing with the "big guys" and having a humongous customer base. Having a large customer base is all (most) of our dreams; however, being successful doesn't HAVE to mean having a large customer base, just keeping the profits coming.
Matt De Leon
GreekComm - http://www.greekcomm.com/
Online Community for Greek Fraternities and Sororities.