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  1. #1

    Question who need Hostskin.com? ( my experiance )


    ====== UPDATE =========

    just to let WHT visitors know, Dan contact me today ( 3 or 4 hours ago ) and we chated in good and calm way.

    i invited him to read my post carefuly and he thankfully did, we read togeather every thing fire me.

    he updated his work online .. he fixed everything i want, total update time was about 30mins or less.

    he promissed to send the final PSD, BMP file tonight and i already stopped the chargeback proccess.

    I were upset because i paid a lot and found my self *still* want to edit the design myself. ( i design my host site(s) like 2mhost.com, its my work ). i were upset because the designer ignored my notes while i have no time to follow them and explain and explain and explain .....

    anyway work is done, i'm bit happy with the design .. but will do the logo myself

    ====== /UPDATE =========



    Hi all,

    just want to tell my experiance with hostskin, because i'm sure that all other hosts looking for hostskin designs will have same BAD experiance.


    i liked this words in hostskin site "take a one-on-one approach to customizing your design to fit your firm" which is the FAKE words, in breif, i picked a design for my new brand name.

    i paid $300 + $50 for 2checkout.com account so they can accept my credit card ( Egypt ).

    i sent a list by my customization notes to be done, i never asked to do this notes in hurry. few days and nothing done and after some hassles with hostskin owner i found that they can not understand my english .. well ... no problem. Dan asked me to confirm the points i need to do .. here is the ICQ chat:


    Dan : It is amazing, looks very very good!
    Robbin: nothing of long list comments has been done .... NOTHING
    Dan : huh?
    Robbin:let your desinger chek his email .. i told him a lot of changes .. all ignored
    Dan :let me talk to him
    Dan : one second
    Dan :please send me the email
    Dan :also, [email protected]
    Dan :[email protected]
    Robbin:you promised one 2 one care .

    .....
    .....
    Robbin:even menu items not correct ...... i guess your designer is bit busy
    Dan :he is very, very busy
    Dan orry baout the mess up


    then we went with English lang issuse ..... ok .. here is the part we adjusted everything


    Dan from 20/09/22 02:07 one second
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:09 Green Template Changes:

    1. Adjust ratio: Move design to the left and
    remove the margins. Make it right up against
    the top and bottom. Also, remove the background image and make it white.

    2. Make welcome in the upper corner darker.

    3. Make the arrow pointing at the name darker
    and more glossy...

    4. Make sure things fit on 800x600 WITHOUT
    scrolling on main page...

    5. Make the text box under ABOUT OUR COMPANY
    wider.
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:09 anything else?
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:09 That is the kind of list we needed, your
    english (i am sorry for saying so) is a bit
    hard to understand...

    Dan from 20/09/22 02:09 If those are the changes you need, We'll have
    them done ASAP.
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:11 Anything else?
    Robbin 20/09/22 02:12 yes .. hold on
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:12 Before I nor Chris really understood what you
    were asking for. This makes it much clearer...
    Robbin 20/09/22 02:12 please open http://www.2mhost.com in your
    browser
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:13 Ok, Done...
    Robbin 20/09/22 02:13 see the whois lookup in the button
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:14 the domain search box?
    Robbin 20/09/22 02:15 yes the domain search box .... its made by
    simple CSS and javascript ...... can we do the
    cpanel login in same style ? it take less
    space and looks very nice .... you can save the
    2mhost page and use it .. and this is the last
    change.
    ***** in fact there were tons of changes but all ignored and i were have no time to repeat it again ... i just wanted to get anything .. anthing
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:16 alright, added to the list
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:16 Sorry about misunderstanding you before... I'll
    see that this is done on time and ready for
    you...
    Dan from 20/09/22 02:16 Hopefuly tonight or tomorrow at latest
    Robbin 20/09/22 02:16 thats all .. zip the HTML with the PSd and
    email them to [email protected]
    Robbin 20/09/22 02:17 take what ever you want .. i'm not in hurry


    and since 22 Sep to 8 Oct .. i got this pages
    http://clients.hostskin.com/allinhost/
    same verical scroll, same stupid logo, and he even did not do the customers login form as i asked to be done

    and this poor page which made me exploded
    and http://clients.hostskin.com/allinhost/sub.htm
    the **** designer EVEN never think to add a space between the text and the edge of green table .. its just pissed off, never think to remove page margings .......

    Dan said .. "your directions is not clear" please someone tell me .. is table margins need directions ?

    damn .. is that what i paid $350 for ?

    finally ..

    design layout is .. 10/10
    customization .. 1/10
    one-on-one approach .. Joke!
    Rebate .. false advertising
    value of money .. 3/10 $100 will be enoughf to get same layout and customize it myself

    wait for any comments, i have more ICQ chats and emails
    Last edited by 2Mhost; 10-10-2002 at 05:24 PM.

  2. #2

    Talking

    please note that i have Logo design in my package

    please try to find it in
    http://clients.hostskin.com/allinhost/


    and i'll give $10 to anyone can tell me where is it .. i use 2checkout.. not paypal

  3. #3
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    First off, emphasizing that you had to pay $50 for a 2checkout account because they couldn't accept your credit card is hardly relevant to your post.

    There's always two sides to every story but from looking over Host Skin's website, (IMO) they should be charging you the extra $195 (package cost) for everything you are asking for them to customize.

    It also seems uncourteous for them to point out your bad english as their excuse, instead of getting back with you to confirm your requests.
    Modest Mouse Talk

  4. #4
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    Have you asked for a refund yet? Thats what I would do if you can't get what you asked for/we promised..

  5. #5
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    1. Not sure if this is the right section for this...

    2. Is it really the right thing to do... to come online and kill a companies rep like this? Like stated, always two sides to every story.

    I know I just had a client flip out on me today because I am behind schedule on his site. I understood completely, but it was kind of out of our control as more important issues kept arising the past couple of days... If he were to come on here and blowup like this, I'd be furious.

    I understand you paid $400 or so and that is A LOT of money, but are you sure you've tried 100% to deal with this the right way?

    Jeff

  6. #6

    Refund sure

    I was preparing to deal with HostSkin .I like their Designs .But it will be a catch like this !

    They should do what they promise you

    Now i am afraid of dealing with company don`t do what they promise .

    I think you should ask for Refund .

  7. #7
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    Vipe, I think the $50 payment to 2checkout is relevant- it shows that our Egyptian friend was more than happy to work with this designer.

    The graphics on the page they made are gorgeous - very beautiful.

    The formatting on that sub page - well, that's a newbie thing. Can't imagine someone that could make images like the ones on this page would end up with a simple formatting issue like this one.

    They'll make good on the deal, I am sure. Give them another small chance.

    -WC-

  8. #8

    Arrow

    i published both sides story .... as is in ICQ ..

    yes WildCard .. i was more than happy to work with this guys.. and to be honst i valued the desgin by $500 not $300

    but in 1 case if i got what i want .. if to choose a layout and go then $100 is enoughf

    i do design myself .. i paid $350 to get something ready to use, edit text and upload

    i do not want to kill hostskin nor will ask for refund. however i'm mad becuase hostskin cheat me, they promissed one to one attention and i got some poor results after 17 day waiting.

    damn .. please find the logo

  9. #9
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    New Orleans, LA
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    I am sure they will resolve the issue. They were very patient & understanding in the IM chats.

    $350 is a great deal for a template of that quality - going to a designer to start from scratch would cost a lot more.

    Of course you deserve to get what you paid for - but I am sure they will resolve all your issues.
    Andrew McMaster
    http://www.FindMyHosting.com
    Compare Prices, Consumer Reviews, Help, Guides and More.

  10. #10
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    Re: Refund sure

    Hello Everyone.

    Time for our side of the story. First off, this customers name is not Robbin. It is Mohamed Noman our of Egypt. The reason that the credit card was not accepted through our other billing system is his geographical location. He agreed to pay the 49.95 fee for a 2checkout account and we obliged with accepting his payment via 2checkout.com.

    This was a unique case which I feel we dealt with professionally and promptly. We were provided with a list of changes to make to the template, which were completed to request.

    We delivered the design for the first time. Customer then contacted us again with more changes. I forwarded them to our designer, who completed them. As the ICQ logs show, we did complete the changes.

    A full design can be viewed here with all the changes in the ICQ logs that Mohamed himself posted here:
    http://clients.hostskin.com/allinhost/

    Client also requested a sub page be designed, we obliged to his request. View here:
    http://clients.hostskin.com/allinhost/sub.htm

    This client is unreasonable and hard to work with. He demands a large number of changes multiple times, and even has threatened a charge back AFTER the template was delivered to him. This is not the way we do business, and we have done everything in our power to oblige his ever request.

    There comes a time where enough is enough. You can't expect a full pie when you only pay for a slice. This design has taken over 23 designer hours to complete, including all revisions to coding and art requested by the customer. Normally, a $300.00 HostSkin package takes less than 9 hours of designer time to complete. This has been an expensive affair and I feel we've done more than required.

    Anyone with further questions can feel free to post them here, or E-mail me.
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  11. #11
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    Re: Refund sure

    Originally posted by samsam
    I was preparing to deal with HostSkin .I like their Designs .But it will be a catch like this !

    They should do what they promise you

    Now i am afraid of dealing with company don`t do what they promise .

    I think you should ask for Refund .
    Hi,

    We have done everything in our power to deliver on the product and have SENT HIM a completed design per his request.

    Please see both sides of the story before you make a judgement.
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by 2Mhost
    please note that i have Logo design in my package

    please try to find it in
    http://clients.hostskin.com/allinhost/


    and i'll give $10 to anyone can tell me where is it .. i use 2checkout.. not paypal
    By the way. The arrow is the logo, you never requested anything changed in the logo.

    If you wish for the logo to be changed, please contact your designer (Chris) at [email protected]. We will be happy to take care of that change for you IF YOU REQUEST it. We cannot read minds.
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  13. #13
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    Aug 2001
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    Dan, I COMPLETELY AGREE! Maybe you should state how many changes a client gets and then have them "sign off". All extra work would be extra $.

    It's hard enough trying to make cash on templates when people won't pay more than $50... then having someone pay $350 and using 23 hours of a designers time! lol, little loss on ur part eh

    Ah well, just one client. Can't keep em ALL happy. Good work on the situation and I personally think you did a good job.

    Jeff

  14. #14
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    Jul 2002
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    541
    I think the arrow logo is sort of neat, but to be honest - this shade of green is a nice change of pace compared to the common blue that seems to be in a lot of templates these days.

    RefSoft (Dan), you do good work. Great work. I can hear your fustration - but I would suggest trying to hide it and use this loss as just an example to show what you guys can do.

    I am impressed. Very. I don't know about others, but I think I will be checking out your selection next time me or a client of mine is in need of a high quality template.

    Keep up the good work!
    -WC-

  15. #15
    dan,
    you have a good reputation on these fora and im sure after reading the thread, there will be no significant change for the worse in a potential clients' perception of your services.

    the 'one on one care' issue is a little tricky, since you did promise it, and from what i can gather (my judgement is only as good as the info i base it on), you have taken your time responding to his requests. obviously, mohamed also doesnt feel that the design was as 'turnkey' as he expected it to be.

    on the other hand, if i could find someone that would produce designs of this quality at $15/hr, i would kidnap him, lock him in a dungeon and make sure noone comes within a 5 mile radius of him.

    good luck,
    paul
    * Rusko Enterprises LLC - Upgrade to 100% uptime today!
    * Premium NYC collocation and custom dedicated servers
    call 1-877-MY-RUSKO or paul [at] rusko.us

    dedicated servers, collocation, load balanced and high availability clusters

  16. #16
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    Re: Re: Refund sure

    Originally posted by Refsoft
    Hello Everyone.


    A full design can be viewed here with all the changes in the ICQ logs that Mohamed himself posted here:
    http://clients.hostskin.com/allinhost/

    <sigh> another one offering unlimited bandwidth..

  17. #17
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    Jul 2002
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    Well, if I didn't know better and saw the site, I would think they could handle selling unlimited bandwidth. But you only have to be burned once to learn the truth.


  18. #18
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    Illinois, USA
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    Re: Re: Re: Refund sure

    Originally posted by OKIHost


    <sigh> another one offering unlimited bandwidth..

    i think those are just place holders for the actual plan information since all 3 are the same...

  19. #19
    i think Dan depend on that my first post is large enoughf not be read in full.

    my requests there in the ICQ dialog, the output there also, can any one please compare ?

    i asked the changes ONCE, i sent it by email many times, i talked about it many times .. but its as is .. always as is

    i'm sorry all .. but i expect dan will be shame and adjust things ( as in ICQ dialog ) but this never happend and i got bounch of CLEAR fakes

    its clear .. just read my first post carfully

    HTML in the trash and dan did not send the useable PSD, i got nothing now, refunds will be requested from Jeaf Bell of 2checkout.om personally.

    enoughf is enoughf.

  20. #20
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    2mhost, I do not know how many threads there has been here screaming about your lousy service and how unresponsive you are to your customers. How many post have been made claiming you have cheated customers out of money and here you are giving someone a hard time because they did not jump through hoops for you.

    Gimme a break I hope they tell you to go stick it, like you do your customers.

  21. #21
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    I am the designer of the template and i would just like to apologize to you if we gave you any inconvenience. You have asked for plenty of changes and i took care of them all. Everytime I made a change, a new change was requested. Also, for the subpage, we do not even offer a subpage with the package you ordered from us, but yet you got it. Why complain about it? We gave you a free subpage....If you want to add cellpadding to the green text area, you can do that yourself or i'll be glad to make the change for you. I have spent lots of time with this template and I always get requests of changes, i really think ive done alot, and im still willing to help you out. But please, dont make it seem like were trying to take your money and not offer you good service. We tried our best and i dont think we deserve this topic. Its funny how right after we finish your last request, you threaten us with a refund...

  22. #22
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    Originally posted by 2Mhost
    . . . . . . . . .

    enoughf is enoughf.
    Sounds like something they should have told you a long time ago. Seems you got well past your monies' worth.
    There is no best host. There is only the host that's best for you.

  23. #23
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    For what it's worth...

    Thats a REALLY nice page!

  24. #24
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    Originally posted by 2Mhost
    i think Dan depend on that my first post is large enoughf not be read in full.

    my requests there in the ICQ dialog, the output there also, can any one please compare ?

    i asked the changes ONCE, i sent it by email many times, i talked about it many times .. but its as is .. always as is

    i'm sorry all .. but i expect dan will be shame and adjust things ( as in ICQ dialog ) but this never happend and i got bounch of CLEAR fakes

    its clear .. just read my first post carfully

    HTML in the trash and dan did not send the useable PSD, i got nothing now, refunds will be requested from Jeaf Bell of 2checkout.om personally.

    enoughf is enoughf.
    Actually, a usable PSD was provided. We utilize the latest version of Adobe Photoshop. You using outdated version 5.5 and being unable to open the provided files is not our fault.

    The simple fact that you have the nerve to blame us for your software issues is outrageous. Especially when we are working on providing you with the files you requested.

    Also, please note. We will not grant a refund as we have put in the time and effort to design and deliver the product. If you do put in for a refund, you lose all rights to using the template. You cannot use this design if you request a refund.

    Please, don't play games. We have a good reputation and many satisfied customers. Your lack of professionalism and understanding is not our fault. We've done everything -- and more -- to make you happy and you've responded with threats and insults.

    Now, with regards to the PSD. Chris (evil jman) is working on converting your PSD file to the outdated Adobe Photoshop 5.5 format that you requested. You cannot reasonable assume that your demands will be performed right when you place them as the work hours in the United States are 9AM to 4PM as posted on our website CST. You placed that request late at night and it will be attended to as soon as possible.

    Please stop with your threats and accusations. I think that everyone else on this forum, and all our other customers feel and see that we are providing a quality, reasonably priced service and are working hard to keep our customers happy. Your lack of flexibility is not our fault nor problem.
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  25. #25
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    .
    For what it's worth...

    Ditto

    evil jman - you've got some real skills - your designs are very impressive
    Andrew McMaster
    http://www.FindMyHosting.com
    Compare Prices, Consumer Reviews, Help, Guides and More.

  26. #26
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    Originally posted by NovaW
    .


    Ditto

    evil jman - you've got some real skills - your designs are very impressive
    Chris is one of the most talented, professional and respectful people I've ever had the pleasure of working with. I am very, very proud to be partners with him on our HostSkin.com venture and hope to work with him on other projects in the future.
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  27. #27
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    thanks alot

    personally, i dont think im all that great yet, i still need alot more practice. Maybe in a year or so, i'll actually be really confident that im good at what i do. For now, i believe im average and im still in the learning stage. I'm getting better and better after each design i make for hostskin, so i can imagin how i'll be in a year.

  28. #28
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    One thing that I forgot to mention, with regards to refunds.

    Our stated, posted policy which you agreed to before you made your order states, and I quote:

    "Refund Policy Disclosure
    Since our products are mostly digital (i.e. files), there is no way to physically "return" the product since they can be easily copied. Because of this, we do not give refunds. HostSkin.com provides support for customer inquiries prior to as well as after the purchase to ensure that the customer is fully informed about their selection before they complete their transaction. All sales are final. No payments made to HostSkin.com will be refunded under any conditions unless otherwise stated, in writing. "

    Please read what you agree to. 2checkout.com has been notified of this.
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  29. #29
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    One thing I forgot to address in public. You stated that our:

    Rebate .. false advertising

    Our rebate is not false advertising. We've sent quite a few checks to many persons who found us on this forum. All you have to do is fill out and mail in a simple form, how is that false advertising?

    Dan
    ---
    Dan Ushman
    Co-founder & CMO
    SingleHop, Inc.

  30. #30
    please read my update in first post of me ..

  31. #31
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    Great to hear things are resolved.
    Modest Mouse Talk

  32. #32
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    I'm under the impression this whole thing blew up because of the 'one to one approach' thats hostskin sells.

    As in real life, when expectations are significantly higher than what was delivered, someone will be unhappy.

    The file format was a minor area of contention. Maybe hostskin should make it clear which version they'll provide, possibly check with potential clients it's compatiable before the sale.

    All in all, it's nice to read that it's been resolved.

    BTW, it's an awesome design! =)

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