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  1. #26
    Join Date
    Jan 2002
    Location
    Indiana
    Posts
    17
    THAT IS A JOKE! That can not even do math! If you have to have 432 minutes of downtime then there uptime guarantee would be only 99%. I hope they get pull in court for this. I may by very little money but it is the principle on this.

    If there uptime is only 99% ill get a server somewhere else.

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    825

    Question

    And you can't speak English. Works out well..


    Has anyone been compensated yet?
    Devon Dunham (Owner, Sharpnet/DDoS Host)
    Advanced DDoS Mitigation and Server Management Solutions

    Protecting your online infrastructure.

    Est. 1998.

  3. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    456
    Hey!

    If that is what they have actually sent regarding a refund, then they have clearly and surely voided their SLA and ripped off everyone signedup with them!!

    What a VC!

  4. #29
    Anyone contact them reguarding this?? Did anyone tell them that 0.01% = multiply by .0001? If they really do stick to this, then they are really breaking their own contract, violating their own terms of service.

  5. #30
    Quote from Service Agreement:

    "IV. Uptime Guarantee

    UCG guarantees that our network will be available 99.99% (no more than 45 minutes) of the time in a given month excluding scheduled maintenance. UCG will refund the customer 5% of the monthly fee per additional 30 minutes of downtime (up to 50% of customer's monthly fee). Network uptime includes functioning of all network infrastructure including routers, switches and cabling. Network downtime exists when a particular customer is unable to transmit and receive data and UCG records such failure in the UCG trouble ticket system. Network downtime is measured from the time the trouble ticket is opened by a customer to the time the server is once again able to transmit and receive data."

    The first sentence has weird wording. 99.99% means only 0.01% of the time ([total minutes in month] * .0001 allowed downtime). They say the network will be available 99.99% (no more than 45 minutes).... do they mean 45 minutes downtime max (which would still be .1%, not .01%). Clearly the email they sent you states 435 minutes, not 45 minutes. Lot of contradictions here...

    Any response from UCG about all this?

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,136
    4.32 minutes would be 99.99%
    43.2 minutes would be 99.9%
    432 minutes would be 99%

    Terms and figures (within SLA and email) contradict one another and themselves. Their math is whacked, you won't be able to make sense of it. Someone needs to inform them of the issue.
    HostHideout.com - Where professionals discuss web hosting.

    • Chicken

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,210

    Re: Re: They didn't really say that....

    Originally posted by cybotix
    The equation we used to compute reimbursement is
    as follow -- 60 minutes x 24 hours x 30 days x 0.01% = 432 minutes. This means refunds are issue once downtime exceed 0.01% (or 432 minutes) each month.
    Oh my....this is priceless.

    See Sitekeeper, this is how they can do the $49/month thing.

    It's all in the math, silly.

    -Bob

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
    Posts
    1,028
    but now... take into consideration... my 12 yr old brother could tell me what .01% of 100 is (which is the basis of this uptime calculation)... why can these brilliant souls that received all this VC funding (an entire company of 'em)... figure that simple fact out... !?!?!... did someone in there have an MBA from Harvard to get that VC? cuz from a few articles on red herring/etc, its been stated that those degrees ain't worth the paper they're written on... exemplified in the dot-com fiascos... heh...

    i mean... i've even got 2 guys with MBAs workin' with me... although i will admit they're more brilliant in their respective areas (marketing and corporate finance) than me... but... i wouldn't trust them with a lindows box... lol...

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,210
    A good read on the subject of uptime:

    http://www.codesta.com/knowledge/man...es/page_01.jsp


    -Bob

  10. #35
    this is their reply...
    Hi,

    No, our calculation is not wrong. If you required less than 4.32 of
    downtime, perhaps another provider is more suitable to your needs. 43,200
    minutes x 0.01 = 432 minutes.


    Best Regards,


    Customer Support Team
    United Colocation Group
    www.unitedcolo.com

  11. #36
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    190
    why is it when you ask them something they say "perhaps another provider is more suitable to your needs"

    What kinda crap is that? Would they be saying that if every single person felt another provider was more suitable to their needs?

    Thats no different than "HA you get what you pay for"
    C Code. C code run. Run, code, run...
    Segmentation fault (core dumped).. aww sh!t

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Southern California
    Posts
    12,136
    Originally posted by cybotix
    this is their reply...
    The claimed , "...unmatched 99.99% uptime guarantee..." on this page http://www.unitedcolo.com/network.htm is incorrect, they offer 99% uptime (according to that email). I don't like to talk about providers, but that is rather sad that they simply have no grasp of basic mathematics in regards to how to convert a percentage to a decimal.

    I don't know what to tell you other than their SLA, in terms of uptime, is sloppy and most likely worthless. The part, "UCG guarantees that our network will be available 99.99% (no more than 45 minutes) of the time in a given month ..." doesn't make sense and doesn't compute, not to mention it is different than what they are emailing you.

    Anyone's guess, however my suggestion is the cancel the server and get them to fix the SLA in regards to downtime. If you signed up on the basis of 99.99% uptime guarantee, then you should request your fee back.
    HostHideout.com - Where professionals discuss web hosting.

    • Chicken

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Washington, D.C.
    Posts
    502

    Re: They didn't really say that....

    Originally posted by op@SOD.NET
    Methinks you're making that up... they wouldn't REALLY say that 0.01% of downtime means 1%?

    I would like to see if they enforce their terms of service, i.e. if everyone who signed up gets 10% (or whatever) off this month's fees.

    Because they require no real contract (and thank heaven), I am lurking on them still and may move there soon. Keep us updated, folks (please).
    Regardless of their math, they do seem to explicitly state that they'll consider "downtime" to be the time between when you open a trouble ticket and they verify it, and the time when your server comes available again. Meaning if you didn't open a trouble ticket, you won't quality for credit anyhow.

  14. #39
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    450

    Re: Re: They didn't really say that....

    Originally posted by cybotix
    Dear Customer,

    Our apology for this morning outage. The network was was inaccessible from
    10:50 am (PST) -- 11:30 am (PST) while our engineering team was attempting
    to block out the slapper worm virus which has infected a few Linux servers.
    As for reimbursement, this outage does not qualifies for refund as covered
    in our Service Agreement. The equation we used to compute reimbursement is
    as follow -- 60 minutes x 24 hours x 30 days x 0.01% = 432 minutes. This
    means refunds are issue once downtime exceed 0.01% (or 432 minutes) each
    month.


    Best Regards,


    Customer Support Team
    United Colocation Group
    www.unitedcolo.com
    This way you can do anything to keep your uptime guarantee (whether it is 99.99% or 99%). When the network goed down, you just sa that it was an occasional technician fault and you don't have to pay money to anybody!

    And you have already showed that you don't take your business that serious (the math problem, you surely have long years if they let you count!) so why would anyone trust you that you tell them the truth...

    What I think (luckily I didn't sign up ) is that, now you have gotten a lot of customers from this forum, you lack your service (because you say it isn't your core business so why concentrate on quality for it) and still keep the money telling your customers lies about your policies. You can get sued for this, it is called false advertising and people signed up believing your 99.99% uptime guarantee and that is misleading...

    I think the best you can do is refund the money for this month to compensate your customers and regain their trust, but honestly I think you are in big problems...

    Jacco

  15. #40
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    I just hope I don't see hosts using these servers for clients, or I'll have to warn people. They should be fine to use for personal sites or to learn server management, but ...Please don't sell hosting and use these servers!

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,783
    Hehehe I like the part form the time your trouble ticket is submited. Now if the network is down and you cannot submit a trouble ticket they could be down for days and you are not entitled to a refund since there is no ticket time.

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    291

    Re: Re: They didn't really say that....

    Originally posted by BobFarmer


    Regardless of their math, they do seem to explicitly state that they'll consider "downtime" to be the time between when you open a trouble ticket and they verify it, and the time when your server comes available again. Meaning if you didn't open a trouble ticket, you won't quality for credit anyhow.
    It wasn't possible to open a trouble ticket, because they didn't answer the phone yesterday.

    Also, the 99.99% uptime guarantee is included in their list of server features:

    RedHat® Linux 7.3, FreeBSD 4.6, Debian, or Slackware.
    Processor: Intel Celeron 1.7GHz w/256K Cache.
    Memory: 512MB SDRAM.
    Hard Drive: IBM 60GB EIDE 7200RPM.
    Control Panel: Webmin Server Administration.
    Full Root Access.
    24/7 Tech Support.
    99.99% Uptime Guarantee.
    Free Manual Reboot.
    Free Server Traffic (MRTG) Monitoring Tool.
    Free DNS Management.
    Free IPs (10).
    No Restrictions on Contents (Adult Materials Welcome).
    No 95th Percentile Rule.
    Non-Throttle & Fully Burstable (100Mbps) Bandwidth.
    Monthly Billing (No Contract Required).

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Alabama of course
    Posts
    2,247
    Hrm... well, I never expected a 99 dollar a month host to try and change the laws of math and equations... interesting tatic but it won't work.

    We all know that your reading this UGC, if you want to offer 432 mins of downtime then that is 99% NOT 99.99%, 99.99% is 4.32 mins of downtime, 99.9% is 43.2 mins, so your equations on your site no where match, which can be construed as false advertising and entrapment. While I'm no lawyer I'm pretty sure a judge knows how to do math and if for any reason someone were to sue you for a breach of contract (even though your service is month to month you have an agreement or contract with that customer for any month that they send you money).... Well anyways I could continue to ramble on, but if you think your going to keep those numbers the same just to spite us then your more than welcome to, but there is really no reason to rely on faulty math, nor is there any reason to lie about your uptime. You ARE a $99 a month host after all, personally I think anyone who signs up with you shouldn't give a damn if your up or down since your that cheap, however, by having incorrect calculations on your site you are just giving them a door both to sue you and to constantly bitch about you. So please, do us all a favor and fix your site and be done with it. Its really not that hard... honest.
    KnownHost Managed Services Specialists
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  19. #44
    Join Date
    Apr 2002
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    5,783
    I have my $49.00 a month box to play with and since I have no customers on it I really do not care about the dif between 99% and 99.99% but the math is a little off.

    You guys really should get a calculater out and and recompute that 99.99%.

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    CT
    Posts
    1,621
    Wow, they don't even know how to calculate uptime! Actually ... they don't even know what a percent is (hint: 1% = 0.01, 0.01% = ? ). I find it very intriquing ...

  21. #46
    Lets hope they didn’t make the same math’s mistake when calculating there expenditures and revenues.. LOL

    I thought these servers we DAMM cheap…

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    291

    Service Agreement

    Originally posted by heath
    Quote from Service Agreement:

    "IV. Uptime Guarantee

    UCG guarantees that our network will be available 99.99% (no more than 45 minutes) of the time in a given month excluding scheduled maintenance. UCG will refund the customer 5% of the monthly fee per additional 30 minutes of downtime (up to 50% of customer's monthly fee). Network uptime includes functioning of all network infrastructure including routers, switches and cabling. Network downtime exists when a particular customer is unable to transmit and receive data and UCG records such failure in the UCG trouble ticket system. Network downtime is measured from the time the trouble ticket is opened by a customer to the time the server is once again able to transmit and receive data."

    . . .

    Any response from UCG about all this?
    They must have changed their service agreement sometime during this thread. Of course, the binding service agreement should be the one in place at signup, or perhaps the version in place when the downtime occurs.

    You can see what their uptime policy was, before the change, in my post earlier in this thread:

    IV. Uptime Guarantee

    UCG guarantees that our network will be available 99.99% of the time in a given month excluding scheduled maintenance. UCG will refund the customer 5% of the monthly fee per additional 30 minutes of downtime (up to 50% of customer's monthly fee). Network uptime includes functioning of all network infrastructure including routers, switches and cabling. Network downtime exists when a particular customer is unable to transmit and receive data and UCG records such failure in the UCG trouble ticket system. Network downtime is measured from the time the trouble ticket is opened by a customer to the time the server is once again able to transmit and receive data.

    The old policy is less confusing, because it doesn't mention '45 minutes."

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    291

    NEW UPTIME POLICY

    I finally got UnitedColo on the phone to ask about their uptime policy.

    I was told:

    1. There will be a new site up next week that will have more clear information (including some new pricing information or options)

    2. That the new uptime guarantee is no more than 45 minutes/month downtime, or about 99.9% uptime.

    3. That the 5% refund policy for every 30 minutes beyond 45 minutes downtime will remain in place



    I encouraged them to make a couple little fixes to their site before the new one goes up, but they were noncommittal. They basically said they got rid of their webmaster, and that the new site would take care of it. I should have offered to fix their site for them.

    In any event, 99.9% is acceptable to me for $49/month, and I will hold them to it. 99% would not be acceptable.

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Aug 2001
    Posts
    1,210

    Re: NEW UPTIME POLICY

    Originally posted by atr
    2. That the new uptime guarantee is no more than 45 minutes/month downtime, or about 99.9% uptime.
    Do they have any plans on honoring the old one?

    -Bob

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    DC
    Posts
    291

    Re: Re: NEW UPTIME POLICY

    Originally posted by TMX


    Do they have any plans on honoring the old one?

    -Bob
    Not that I could tell. But, in any event, even if they did honor 99.99%, the refund from yesterday's outage would only be 5% (for 1/2 hour over) or $2.45 for the $49 servers.

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