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  1. #1
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    Verio vs. HE vs. AffordableColo

    After spending many hours at this forum searching for good colo companies, viewing their sites and asking for information, I would say I've contacted about 20 different businesses for prices and services. I think I've got a grip on the top 3 out there, and would like to know what you think.

    In my research, I have found the following:

    Verio:

    + Probably the biggest colo company out there
    + 24/7 tech support
    + Free IP addresses
    + Good line providers
    + Only $350/mo for each mbps of bandwidth
    + Professional web site for professional image

    - Charge $150/hr for hands on work, even reboots
    - Huge $750 set up fee
    - Costs $350/mo for 1/4 rack
    - 12 month contracts required

    Conclusion: Looks like the most established colo facility, but very, very expensive, especially for hands on work.

    =========================

    Hurricane Electric:

    + Seems very popular amoung hosting companies for colo
    + 24/7 tech support
    + Free IP addresses
    + Free remote hands for up to 15 minutes
    + Free reboots
    + Good line providers
    + Includes free 7u of space with first mbps of bandwidth
    + Nice web site for a good company image
    + No set up fee with 3 months contract

    - Bandwidth is pretty costly, $500 per mpbs
    - Only 7u worth of space versus 14u with Verio or AffordableColo

    Conclusion: It will be less expensive to have work done on the server anytime for reboots, ram installs, etc., but it will be more costly as I need to add bandwidth to my servers.

    =========================

    Affordable Colo:

    + Only charge $129/mo for 1/4 rack
    + Most affordable bandwidth option at $299/mbps
    + I have heard many good things about them in this forum
    + Free IP addresses
    + Free reboots
    + Remote hands is affordable at $65/hr
    + No set up fees
    + Month to month contracts

    - Their site is outdated and I can't access any of the support pages
    - Their hours are only 10am to 5pm CST

    Conclusion: I was scared off because their site is done poorly and hasn't been kept up which gives the company a bad perception. But, they are the least expensive in terms of rack space and bandwidth.

    =========================

    With this all being said, I have to make a decision as to which company to send my 3 servers to. I ordered my Dell's yesterday and will get them in about 3-4 weeks, so I have time to contimplate this. But, I would love to hear about who you would use for co-location services and why? If anyone has experience, good or bad, with any of these businesses, please share it with me. I want to find a reliable home for my machines and establish a long relationship with a colo company.

    Thank you,

    Eric

  2. #2
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    Among the three listed above, Affordable Colo does not own their own data center. As far as I know, they only have some space inside Colo4Dallas who is actually the one that owns the datacenter.

    So perhaps you can also compare Affordable Colo with HE.net's reseller such as FastServers? They, like Affordable colo, also have some space inside HE datacenter and their pricing is quite affordable, much cheaper than HE. So you will get HE bandwith (which is quite good) at a much reduced cost.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks for the fast reply! Wow, these forums do impress me

    Anyhow, with fastservers, I was aware they hosted in HE's dc. What's odd is that fastservers charges for IPs (which is a big turnoff since they get them for free) and they charge more for bandwidth than HE does. For example:

    HE charges $500 for each mbps (or about 300GB/mo). But Fastservers chages $600 for the exact same thing. I'm sure this is where they make their money, but I'm not sure how you feel it is cheaper than just going to HE direct?

    In addition, I have 3 1u Dell 1650s right now, so I don't need half a rack either (which is the only option Fastservers gives me) the 7u HE would give me is more than enough.

    In the end, I'd pay Fastsevers $650/mo vs paying HE $500 to get going. And the bandwidth would be more if I needed anohter mbps.

    BTW, FS also charges $100/hr for hands on work where HE gives you 15 minutes free per incident

  4. #4
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    Are you sure about fastservers's pricing?

    I can see that with a full cabinet (40U) and 2Mbps bandwith, they only charge $538/mo, including 64 IP addresses, and free off-server backup. I think that's a really good deal.

    Or you can even just pay $238/mo and get 1/2 cabinet (20U) and 1Mbps bandwith including 16 IP addresses. Still a really good deal.

    Yes, their extra bandwith is more expensive, but I think 2Mbps for $538 with a full cabinet will lower your total cost at the end.

    http://www.fastservers.net/co-location/
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  5. #5
    Greetings:

    "Verio:

    + Probably the biggest colo company out there
    + 24/7 tech support
    + Free IP addresses
    + Good line providers
    + Only $350/mo for each mbps of bandwidth
    + Professional web site for professional image

    - Charge $150/hr for hands on work, even reboots
    - Huge $750 set up fee
    - Costs $350/mo for 1/4 rack
    - 12 month contracts required "

    There are some problems with your statements above:

    1. NTT/Verio is more into dedicated hosting than co-location; and have closed many co-location data centers across the world.

    2. Concerning #1, they left a large number of customers in a gigantic amount of pain when they provided as little as 5 to 10 days notice for some of the co-location data center closings.

    With that stated, while we would recommend NTT/Verio for dedicated hosting, we could not (at this point) recommend them for co-location.

    Thank you.
    ---
    Peter M. Abraham
    LinkedIn Profile

  6. #6
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    Ok, I admit it. I'm a *****

    I was configuring their 20u rack with an additional 300GB to the already existing 300GB (mbps). I'm talking to FS right now to get an acurate price. But I do admit, $538/mo for 2mpbs and a full rack does blow the other companies out of the water. And knowing they use HE, I know I'm getting a good dc.

  7. #7
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    Hmm, thanks for informing me about the Verio option. I will take this into consideration over the weekend when we make our decision as to who to go with for colo.

  8. #8
    FYI: I'm not located there, but the FastServers deal looks very nice. I love InterNAP for my stuff that is absolutely mission critical, but I might start thinking about locating some of the non-critical stuff at FastServers...
    I thank my Lord for all His wonderful blessings.

  9. #9
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    I looked at Internap, but their site has almost no info on colo services. I tried to call them to get prices and the only sales person available was on vacation until Monday. Doesn't say much for their company if I can't even get someone to give me a price for co-location of 1/4-1/2 rack with 1-2mbps connection

  10. #10
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    Try to contact to nac.net, their have very good prices as well.
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  11. #11
    braysurdi:

    Odd that you can't get a salesperson, they've got 465 employees and centers in Amsterdam, Atlanta, Boston, Chicago, London, Los Angeles, New York, San Francisco, San Jose, Seattle, Tokyo and Washington, DC.

    You probably wouldn't be interested in InterNAP anyhow. It costs about FIVE TIMES the cost of FastServers. But when you've got to have what InterNAP offers -- 9 backbones, daily remapped network, guaranteed sub 55ms latency -- then it's worth every dime.
    I thank my Lord for all His wonderful blessings.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by braysurdi
    I can't even get someone to give me a price for co-location of 1/4-1/2 rack with 1-2mbps connection
    Latest pricing for me at InterNAP, based on large volume of space and bandwidth, is considerably lower -- but based on the standard pricing, I'd guess that at InterNAP you'll pay about $2,000 a month for that.
    I thank my Lord for all His wonderful blessings.

  13. #13
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    For $2,000 + /mo I can get my own lines. Heck, I could get one from Cogent, Sprint and ATT for that cost.

    Please do not think that quality isn't a priority for us. In fact, it is the most important compenent to this search. I want to find a nice DC with good backbones that can give us colo for an affordable price. I'm already forking out $1000/mo for renting, so with our new equipment loan, I can go up to $700/mo for colo.

  14. #14
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    Verio: = BAD been there done that we got a 30 day notice that they was closing the doors on the DC we was in.

    Internap: Good luck on getting a sales person because they do not have any, they all got laid off about a month ago, they only have sales partners now. Not to mention they are about to be de-listed, stocks trading at .22 a share so I would expect they are in not to good of capital shape.


    HE.net: Last I heard they had a spam issue and had most all their ips black listed because they refuse to deal with the issue.
    I donít know this first hand but there have been some posts on here about it.



    Good luck on your search just investigate before you jump.

  15. #15
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    Thanks very much for your insite Paul, I really do appreciate everyone's input on this

  16. #16
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    Re: Verio vs. HE vs. AffordableColo

    Originally posted by braysurdi

    Affordable Colo:

    + Only charge $129/mo for 1/4 rack
    + Most affordable bandwidth option at $299/mbps
    Be careful. That is for a 1/4 rack w/o power, according to their website.

    However, if you pay by the U and you only need 3U, it's $35/U * 3 = $105.00 including power AND a remote reboot port (handy!).

    If you're going to get the 1/4 rack and get power, it'll be $129 + $40 ($8/amp * 5amps minimum) = $169, which is still good. You might need to get another 5amp circuit to fill the rest of the 1/4 rack, though, so really it'll be more like $209 for the 1/4 rack, which IMO, is still good.

    Also remember that the transfer is "as low as" $299/mbps. Find out the price they'll really charge you before making a decision.

    You'll also want to compare network information between the datacenters -- how they build and manage their network makes a big difference.

    Food for thought.
    Alex Llera
    Professional Server Management
    FreeBSD|Linux|HSphere|Cpanel|Plesk

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by hostpath.com
    Latest pricing for me at InterNAP, based on large volume of space and bandwidth, is considerably lower -- but based on the standard pricing, I'd guess that at InterNAP you'll pay about $2,000 a month for that.
    Actually you can get a quite a bit less than that if you know how to talk to their sales
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  18. #18
    What's the policy on advertising here?
    I apologize as I am rather new to this list.

    Nick

  19. #19
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    Hi Liggy

    Welcome to WHT, here are the rules http://www.webhostingtalk.com/misc.p...on=forum-rules
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  20. #20
    Thanks Jorge!

    Wasn't sure where to find that, i'm pretty sleepy =)

  21. #21
    fastservers uses HE's fremont location

    the more bandwidth you buy, the cheaper it gets

    we use HE and highly recommend them

  22. #22
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    Hi Gary,

    I'd go direct to HE rather than through fastservers, but it's less expensive to go with FS. HE charges $500/mbps while FS charges $300. While we would pay for hands on work and IP addresses at FS (ie we would not at HE) that big difference in bandwidth will impact the monthly budget heavily. How much are you getting charged for bandwidth at HE?

  23. #23
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    Hello,

    I was quoted $200/mbit
    Unlimited Space & Bandwidth
    http://localhost/
    Providing hosting since 17/99/3003

  24. #24
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    What the? How many MB did you buy?

  25. #25
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    Ah, I just talked to a sales rep from HE and found the following:

    1 to 4 Mbps at $500 per Mbps
    5-9 Mbps at $400 per Mbps
    10-19 Mbps at $300 per Mbps
    etc, etc.

    So it seems Fastservers should get my ultimate vote because they host in HE which offers nice bandwidth, but costs less because you can buy the bandwidth from FS at a discount since they purchase blocks in bulk.

    Any last thoughts from anyone?

  26. #26
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    A concern that seemed to come up at every provider for you was reboots. Since you are colocating I would advise getting an APC masterswitch so you can remotely power cycle your own equipment.

    I haven't priced one in quite awhile, but they arent at all unreasonable.. especially if you pull one from ebay or so. Over time the cost would be justified and less than calling in for managed services.
    - brian

    failing to plan is planning to fail.

  27. #27
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    Good call, but reboots are free at FS and HE

  28. #28
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    Originally posted by braysurdi
    Good call, but reboots are free at FS and HE
    It's not about money though It's about time. With remote reboot, you can reboot your server anytime you want without the need to wait for somebody to be dispatched, then to locate your rack, your server, and finally reboot your server.

    Again, for just several hundreds, you will be glad you have it.

    FS might indeed be a good choice for you. Wish you the best !
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  29. #29
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    Good point Dave, I wonder if I can add this to my rack knowing that my servers are being shipped on Tuesday? Is this hardware that can be added after the fact? Looks like I'll need to call my Dell sales rep and find out

  30. #30
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    Re: fastservers:
    I can see that with a full cabinet (40U) and 2Mbps bandwith, they only charge $538/mo, including 64 IP addresses, and free off-server backup. I think that's a really good deal.
    Well, when you try to fill out the order form you only see 150G free which is roughly 512 kbps, not 2Mbps.

  31. #31
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    Here is the quote I got from HE (Sorry, I couldn't format the table here, so I just posted printscreen with the quote):

    http://www.remotegalaxy.com/quote.jpg

    This includes 7U and no setup.

  32. #32
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    You hit on the same mistake I made when looking at their order form/bandwidth calculator. 2mbps is included already with the full rack option, and 1mpbs is included with the price of the 1/2 rack option. There is no need to fill out anything else on the order page for colo outside of the rack size you want. The "free" 150GB/mo is for a single u colo, and it basically is asking how much more GB you want if you only want one u of space.

    As for the HE quote, that $200 is only for 128kbs per month. What's the point of buying your own equipment and paying higher colo fees for 35GB of bandwidth per month when you can get a shared solution for less than a third of that price? I suppose it may be beneficial if you host a ton of low traffic static sites?

    Just curios

  33. #33
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    HE starts making sence at 1Mbps - $1.61 per Gig. At $200 per month for .128Mbps it doesn't, I agree.

  34. #34
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    ethos thanks for pointing out the error on our order page

  35. #35
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    You're welcome. Now I like your rates!

    Question: if I place servers with you do I get physical access to them or I have to do maintanance via your support?

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  37. #37
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    Hi -

    I would honestly recommend that you continue to shop around, or at least avoid Verio and AffordableColo. Verio is expensive and as others have said, they have closed up many colo centers in the past with very little warning.

    AffordableColo ... we were colocated through them at a Yipes data center in Denver for about 9 months. We honestly had a countless number of issues - quite a few were the fault of Yipes' own staff, but we had ongoing service issues that were the result of issues controlled directly by AffordableColo. Here's a sample of a few that stand out in my mind at the moment:

    * Their "fully burstable network" in Denver was capped at 5Mb/sec, which caused massive network latency whenever one of our customers did a new marketing campaign.

    * Requests for additional IPs were never processed in a timely, efficient manner. In fact, there times when got sick of waiting and filled out the Yipes IP request form for AffordableColo.

    * Access to decsision makers was limited, at best. Charles, the "CEO / Sales Manager / Operations Manager", etc, etc, etc, repeatedly defered descisions regarding our contract to Glen, a mystery person that always seemed to be out of town, for whome we were never given a last name, phone number, or an email address.

    * AffordableColo "mistakenly" charged our credit card after our contract expired and all of our services were turned off. Charles repeatedly promised that he would resolve the matter personally, but a refund wasn't issued until 3 weeks after the charge was made. The amount in question wasn't a trivial figure either.

    * Even though we stopped using IPs issues to use by AffordableColo over 6 weeks ago, and have repeatedly requested that we be unSWIP'd at ARIN, AffordableColo has failed to do this. The unfortunate consequence of this is that we receive all abuse related email for these IP blocks.

    I could go on and on and on about other problems we had there, but I think the examples above make my point.

    If you are looking for a quality, affordable colocation provider I would suggest Ventures Online (www.venturesonline.com). We been using their services for over 6 months now and have had all of our equipment there for about 4 months. I really can not say enough nice things about the team of people that work there. The are always very helpful, and have frequently gone way, way, way above and beyond the standard call of duty to help us.

    Their pricing might be a smidge more expensive then HE or AffordableColo, but they have a quality network with Yipes, AT&T, and TimeWarner BGP'd. Their data center is fully staffed 24/7, reboots are free, and most remote hands assistance is free as well.

    Just my 2 cents
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
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    Current specials here. Check them out.

  38. #38
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    May i remind you that you yourselves decided to utilize denver as your hosting location, i made special arrangement through yipes to facilite you so you could keep your servers local.

    1. Network was capped at 5mbps as handynetworks only committed to 1-2mbps. Handy Networks was informed should that cap need to be raised w ewould be more then happy to do it, simply give me a call and i can make the change in minutes. Since handy networks was the only customer on that line in denver giving them twice as much burstability as they pay for in my book is approp. If we turned up say a 100mbps of service to them when their only paying for 1-2 mbps would not be a profitable business for us. And were in the business to at least break even, which is all we did with handynetworks, i dont think we ever made a dime on them. Of course thats not their fault. We didnt expect to we were simply trying to go out of our way to secure them space locally instead of in our core data center markets of dallas, kansas and mo.

    2. Handy Networks was not utilizing shared ip hosting they assigned 1 ip per customer per domain. They did tell us this up front and thousands of ips were assigned to them, for their per domain hosting again as a favor to them. THey then requested for additional address space. Yes it does take time exp. when their already using address space in a inefficient manner. Not to mention all ips thorugh us are free not typical of any of our competitors, if our customers would like us to start charging a monthly charge for ip address space as our customers do im sure ip address assignments could be processed a bit faster.

    3. Yes your credit card was charged, and i told you personally kristin would take care of it. Unfort. i was out of town for 2 weeks and kristin was out of the office 1 week sick. You then contacted me to let me know it still had not been done, and i took care of it personally and it was done in less then a week. I feel thats approp. time line for a issue i wasnt even aware was still outstanding.

    4. Access to decision makers were limited? yes customer dont have direct access usually to our cfo. He has multiple business ventures he oversees and is often traveling. But you were always able to contact me 24/7 or any of our support 24/7. Support requests were always handled in a timely manner. And i often made my self available to you at 3am in the morning.

    5. Arin has recently switched to new swip templates. This caused a problem with our automated system. Your blocks should be unswipped now or in the next 48 hours. I dont think unswipping your blocks is any indication of the level of service we provide exp. considering your not even a customer.

    I could also make many comments of how we went out of our way and above the call of duty for handy networks over and over again. But putting a previous customers of ours down, is not what im in the business of doing. Although handy networks feels the need to attack me, and i wouldnt like to attack back. Ill leave it as Handy Networks is a good company ran by good guys.

    Most of the problems reside from our ability to try to provide them with a local presence. Handy Networks was made aware up front of the limited service we could provide in denver. They made the choice to pursue it. I myself drove out to denver a 10 hour drive one time to help them set up equipment. This is indicitive of how we go out of our way for each customer. It is apparant the expectation of handy networks were not met.

    New customers as always are set up in dallas, where the level of service they recv is always above par. In denver we were often at the mercy of yipes noc staff, while great for bandwidth is not so great for colo.

    While affordablecolo.com and its staff do make mistakes from time to time (whos perfect), I think hundreds of happy customers, most posting on here, can attest to the level of service that are customers have come to know and expect.
    affordablecolo.com carrier grade colocation at a affordable price!
    Charles Baker - Company Operations
    1-866-316-HOST

  39. #39
    Originally posted by braysurdi
    Hi Gary,

    I'd go direct to HE rather than through fastservers, but it's less expensive to go with FS. HE charges $500/mbps while FS charges $300. While we would pay for hands on work and IP addresses at FS (ie we would not at HE) that big difference in bandwidth will impact the monthly budget heavily. How much are you getting charged for bandwidth at HE?
    Sorry, due to our arrangement with HE, we cant disclose our rates. I can say however, its less then $500 a meg

    If your looking to grow with bandwidth, then i suggest that you go with HE, unless you can get it in writing from FS's that the more bw u use, the cheaper it will get

    You also get guaranteed phone support 24/7 with HE...not sure if Fastservers will answer the phone at 4am when your servers are down...HE will

  40. #40
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    Charles -

    1) Our contract stated that our connection was to be fully burstable. Interpret "fully burstable" as you would like, the fact is that your line at Yipes was capped at 5Mb/sec did cause network latency on more than one occassion.

    2) We repeatedly let you know that we utlizied IP based hosting and you had absolutely NO problem with that when we discussed this with you before we signed our contract. The simple fact is that you were told up front that we used IP based hosting and you stated that this would not be a problem. Midway through our contract, you went back on your word.

    3) Our card was charged on 8/15. On 8/18 you replied via email that our refund would be issued promptly. On 8/24 we sent you another message indicating that we still had not been refunded. We followed up again between 9/1 and 9/3, with you utimately saying that you would process the refund yourself. On 9/8 the refund still had not been processed, so I sent another email. By 3:00PM on 9/9 you had not yet responded to my email, and I called you and you finally processed the refund. I'm sorry Charles, you dropped the ball here. We were told 3 times that the problem would be taken care of, all all three times the problem wasn't resolved.

    4) Ultimatley, you seemed to have very little power regarding decisions that affected our contract. You repeatedly defered to Glen, a person whom we asked to speak to directly on repeated occassions. We were never given this persons last name, email address, or telephone number.

    5) You can blow smoke about delays with unSWIPing as much as you'd like, but you dropped the ball here too. In fact, you simply stopped responding to our requests, so we explained the situation directly to "the" hostmaster at ARIN and they contacted you directly and told you to take action within 10 days or else. It's rather interesting that now, after I post something about this issue in a public forum, you promise to take care of the issue within 48 hours. I will let the readers of the forum draw their own conclusions about this.

    I'm sorry that you view my post as an attack on you and your company. I have no problems with you as a person, but there are several issues that were not handled with the care and attention I demand as a customer.

    In all fairness, I did note that many of the problems we had while we were up at the Yipes datacenter were because of mistakes made by people out of your direct control - Yipes' staff.
    Jay Sudowski // Handy Networks LLC // Co-Founder & CTO
    AS30475 - Level(3), HE, Telia, XO and Cogent. Noction optimized network.
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