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  1. #51
    You get what you pay for.

  2. #52
    I paid $0 to use this forum so is it worth nothing?
    Of course not.

    Has it helped my business?
    Very much.

    Have i learned from it?
    Oh yeah.

    The Old "You get what you pay for" is the typical corporate view of people who do not know any better.

    Anyway, the world is learning that this motto is false and there is nothing we can do to change that, thankfully.

    Have a good day!
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  3. #53
    "You get what you pay for"

    Don't tell me your not intelligent enough to understand what that statement means.

    (Sheesh....the type of people you meet on a messageboard...)

  4. #54


    Yeah, i went through that phase as well but it will pass, mark my words. Anyway, i wasted enough time trolling with you, it's been a pleasure.
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  5. #55
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    Baltimore, Maryland
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    580
    dont ever ask such a silly question again

  6. #56
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    Some great responses, and thanks. Though I didn't phrase the question well or clearly, I'm getting some of the answers that I was hoping for, and appreciate it.

    Why use Windows? That's an easy one. If you want to sell hosting to corporate America, you better have Windows.

    What does Microsoft run on *nix? Show proof please.

    As far as *nix being the most used server on the web, that may be true; but it is probably true because *nix is free, not necessarily because it's better.

    As far as most corporate servers go, I'm fairly certain Win2K is the most used.
    I wouldn't mind hearing from Mike at Adohost, since he uses Windows servers, and knows about them.

  7. #57
    "What does Microsoft run on *nix? Show proof please."

    I am posting this from my macosx box using my favorite browser chimera, however it did come with Microsoft Internet Explorer. Microsoft has an entire divison that develops applications including office for macosx which is unix at it's core.

    "As far as most corporate servers go, I'm fairly certain Win2K is the most used."

    This is probably true but not for the reason you think it is.

    "As far as *nix being the most used server on the web, that may be true; but it is probably true because *nix is free, not necessarily because it's better."

    It actually has little or nothing to do with the quality or price of the product, at least not in the corporate world, it's actually something called pressure and power. Unfortunatly, during the day i have to do tech support and the company i work for does support for ALL kinds of technical contracts, including microsoft. Do you think that microsoft would stand for anyone using an alternative operating system or server while doing support for thir customers? The answer is a big fat NO. Just today there was a problem with the proxy server and no one could use the internet because ISS needed a nap. Sound like quality? No, sounds more like "You use our products or we take our business and money elsewhere".

    FYI, my employer has several contracts and one of them happens to be microsoft. I work in the same building but have nothing to do with them myself. Did you know that they are known all over the web to pay people like yourself and EricP to make them look less bad?

    Oh yeah, *nix is not a server, it is an operating system.

    Have a good one!
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  8. #58
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    186
    well, i might agree with chrisb that a lot of people do use win2k but serious players still use *nix. I guess the familarity and ease of use and ability to find many windows based "gurus" makes it an easier solution for small to medium size businesses.

    my two cents worth.

    hosty

  9. #59
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Posts
    186
    Originally posted by DayGlo
    "What does Microsoft run on *nix? Show proof please."

    edited....

    "As far as most corporate servers go, I'm fairly certain Win2K is the most used."

    This is probably true but not for the reason you think it is.

    "As far as *nix being the most used server on the web, that may be true; but it is probably true because *nix is free, not necessarily because it's better."

    It actually has little or nothing to do with the quality or price of the product, at least not in the corporate world, it's actually something called pressure and power.
    edited....
    Well, even though I can't dispute the pressure and power angle, I must respectfully disagree about "little or nothing to do with the quality....." I remember the days when we used keep logs of how long we could run a win server, but we didn't do this for *nix machines, if you know what I mean. So it was our choice to go with things that offered less hassle for us when we were asked what to go for. That can only grow, of course M$ has time to catch up with relability etc before this might grow enough to challange M$.

    hosty

  10. #60
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Connecticut, US
    Posts
    779
    Originally posted by greatbeast
    ...
    HOWEVER, even on a Linux/Unix platform I would suggest reboots once a week or once every two weeks, just to have a safety margin and kill zombie processes, etc....
    ...

    That's a joke, right? Reboot Linux every one or two weeks? A reboot every one or two years possibly, but weekly?



    Please stay away from my servers....
    This space for let.
    Inquire within.

  11. #61
    Good point hosty, it also has alot to do with having to train windows "gurus" on a different operating system which will cost the company money. They would save money in the long run on liscence fee's alone (unless it is a Microsoft parnter, then you have no choice) but most of them don't realize that or are simply too scared to move on.

    Microsoft are great business(men,women) who are deserve much credit for employing so many people. They know what buttons to push and how far they can push them but when it comes down to it, no amount of money can make a programmer become as dedicated as the people who develop open source software are. That will never change.

    Wow, waaay off topic here, i'll finish with this post because i have work to do

    Bye
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  12. #62
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    Vancouver, BC
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    283
    i'd say the bottom line is, chris, if you can drop the microsoft and *nix zealots... is that you pick the tool that works best for you. i run mac os x on all my play things because it offers the best of both worlds, i can compile code while i check my email. i have a windows desktop for testing purposes, and have a few *nix boxes lying around.. i just prefer to work in the command line (could be because i grew up on DOS...) and like how *nix typically lets your hardware go faster... being able to convert old 486's into useful things, or using pentium II's with 128mb of ram for test boxes is cost effective and efficient... i wouldn't suggest trying to run win2k on specs like that for any purpose really...

    make a list of what you HAVE to have (support for... perl, vbscript, etc...) and then figure out which platform supports it (well) and that you're most comfortable with, then go from there... if you know your stuff, windows or *nix, you'll be fine, you won't have to resort to lists of this or that is better, you can just show the goods...

  13. #63
    Join Date
    Jun 2001
    Posts
    929
    To be honest with you Win XP runs better than Redhat 7.1 with KDE or GNOME on my K62 380, 160mb RAM laptop!

  14. #64
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    Originally posted by DayGlo
    "What does Microsoft run on *nix? Show proof please."

    I am posting this from my macosx box using my favorite browser chimera, however it did come with Microsoft Internet Explorer. Microsoft has an entire divison that develops applications including office for macosx which is unix at it's core.

    "As far as most corporate servers go, I'm fairly certain Win2K is the most used."

    This is probably true but not for the reason you think it is.

    "As far as *nix being the most used server on the web, that may be true; but it is probably true because *nix is free, not necessarily because it's better."

    It actually has little or nothing to do with the quality or price of the product, at least not in the corporate world, it's actually something called pressure and power. Unfortunatly, during the day i have to do tech support and the company i work for does support for ALL kinds of technical contracts, including microsoft. Do you think that microsoft would stand for anyone using an alternative operating system or server while doing support for thir customers? The answer is a big fat NO. Just today there was a problem with the proxy server and no one could use the internet because ISS needed a nap. Sound like quality? No, sounds more like "You use our products or we take our business and money elsewhere".

    FYI, my employer has several contracts and one of them happens to be microsoft. I work in the same building but have nothing to do with them myself. Did you know that they are known all over the web to pay people like yourself and EricP to make them look less bad?

    Oh yeah, *nix is not a server, it is an operating system.

    Have a good one!
    Yes, I know, *nix is an OS. I also know that corporations use MS due to pressure, perception, and a few other things. I didn't know MS paid people not to make them look bad, though. Tell them to send me a check, and I will promise not to talk about them for $500/mo. Hmmm... I wonder if AOL would do that.

  15. #65
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    1,802
    Originally posted by chrisb
    I wonder if AOL would do that.
    If they did, I would have a few millions on my account

  16. #66
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    Originally posted by greatbeast
    ...
    HOWEVER, even on a Linux/Unix platform I would suggest reboots once a week or once every two weeks, just to have a safety margin and kill zombie processes, etc....

    Originally posted by Mike the newbie



    That's a joke, right? Reboot Linux every one or two weeks? A reboot every one or two years possibly, but weekly?



    Please stay away from my servers....
    LOL. I wonder if this person invented C Panel? Seems like the C Panel developers follow a similar logic.

  17. #67
    I never used aol before but they are also one of microsoft's major targets. I might try it (the software, not the connection) for osx someday to see what it's like. I hear so many comments about it, both negative and positive but more negative.
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  18. #68
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
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    Depok, Indonesia
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    988
    I think we missed the thing that should be the most important point in this heated discussion.

    To quote the original question: "What does linux have that win2k doesn't?"

    Complete source code and freedom to do almost everything you want with the operating system. A few advantages of availability of source code:

    - Ability to customize the o/s to the core. I know a hosting company who uses a customized kernel module to accomplish things that weren't possible if the o/s wasn't open source

    - Knowledge of how the system works can only lead to better software. For example, the most advanced control panels are available to open platforms first. Not to mention innovation like VPS technology (virtual private servers) are possible, creating a whole new market. Proprietary operating systems usually follow years later.

    - Not tied to a single operating system vendor. If RedHat goes broke tomorrow, you can be sure another company will take its place tomorrow. The same cannot be said with Microsoft or any proprietary vendor. Bill Gates himself said every company will get broke eventually.

    - Different open operating systems usually contribute to each other strength, leading to better interoperability. For example, it is very easy to port software between Linux and FreeBSD. However the cost is astronomical to port Windows software to other o/s or vice versa, practically locking you to Windows forever.

    - Basically if you have the expertise (or money), you can steer the o/s roadmap to lead to where you want it to be. With Windows you are at mercy of Microsoft to determine the future of the o/s.

  19. #69
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Louisiana
    Posts
    396
    look what you did!

    you started a linux vs windows WAR!

  20. #70
    Join Date
    May 2001
    Posts
    1,513
    That's all good to know; but what I really wanted to know, was what Linux "applications" have no Windows equivalent? ...and I think that's been answered fairly well now.

    "applications"... I think I finally found the right word that I needed.

  21. #71
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    256
    Originally posted by Mike the newbie



    That's a joke, right? Reboot Linux every one or two weeks? A reboot every one or two years possibly, but weekly?



    Please stay away from my servers....

    Oh, don't worry in the least, after all, your servers arent MY servers. I won't go doing any unauthorized things for you for free.

    And I never said either OS actually NEEDED a reboot once every couple of weeks. I just said it wasn't a bad idea.

    Now if for some reason you equate masculinity or aptitude or anything else with how many hours/days/weeks/months/years/ decades/centuries/millenia your boxes run without a reboot at all, then I suspect you are putting too much value on a statistic.

    Personally, as long as my boxes run reliably for me, then I am happy. If I can run my systems without downtime when they are supposed tio be working, then I am happy.

    And the way I figure it...if a large ISP running faster/more powerful boxes than I am, with people of decades more experience in admin positions than me between them decided a Unix reboot at 3:00am every week or two on a Sunday, then I figure the same is good for my boxes.

  22. #72
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    256
    Originally posted by modihost
    look what you did!

    you started a linux vs windows WAR!
    A war? Oh this is nothing...

    It reminds me of the PC and Amiga wars that used to go on back in the 80's (except its less clear cut).

  23. #73
    Join Date
    Apr 2001
    Location
    St. Louis, MO
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    2,508
    It actually has little or nothing to do with the quality or price of the product, at least not in the corporate world, it's actually something called pressure and power. Unfortunatly, during the day i have to do tech support and the company i work for does support for ALL kinds of technical contracts, including microsoft. Do you think that microsoft would stand for anyone using an alternative operating system or server while doing support for thir customers? The answer is a big fat NO. Just today there was a problem with the proxy server and no one could use the internet because ISS needed a nap. Sound like quality? No, sounds more like "You use our products or we take our business and money elsewhere".
    What are you talking about?
    Mike @ Xiolink.com
    http://www.xiolink.com 1-877-4-XIOLINK
    Advanced Managed Microsoft Hosting
    "Your data... always within reach"

  24. #74
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
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    online - s'where between home & datacenter
    Posts
    163
    Win XP faster? yeah it runs faster on my desktop compared to Win2K on my laptop. But the search in XP is not working, and don't know why sometimes it yells.. gimmi a break!
    Anyway nothing new to me since playing with MS Patchwork company products for long time and quite used to...

    On servers side corporates like Win2K cuz ease to use for starter, if ur secretary can use win95/98, she sure can use Win2K, atleast can do somethings up to the level of win95/98, so no need to hire so called system guy.

    during official trainings i happened to join a COM+ training where MS COM+ footage was shown. I was surprised to see and hear one main speaker saying COM+ have everything what MS promised as to be present in COM !!! Our trainer confirmed that there were samples also provided of COM which never worked in COM but now works in COM+. I didn't persue further as what is promised in COM+ and how many %age of the promises are actually working. as rightly mentioned by priyad, if if cud see the code what MS is giving, then lot programmers would not have wasted their man-hours trying to figure out why the things are not working.

    as servers win2k are more stable than nt, so things are better now, but memory management is still to be perfected. IMO win2k still cannot match the speed and stability of linux on similar hardware config.

    well enough of my off topic rantling (though not off thread
    )

    though i'm still primarily heavy windows user, still two lines which i saw somewhere...
    "windows has detected the mouse has moved, Please restart your system for changes to take effect."

    "The box said - Windows 9x or better, so i installed Linux!"
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  25. #75
    RackMy.com: "What are you talking about?"

    Read it, if you don't know what i am talking about then maybe you should read the thread again. What is it that you do not understand?

    Have a good one!
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