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  #1  
Old 03-20-2001, 03:36 PM
James Cross James Cross is offline
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I'd like some advice, our company owns a site called:

http://www.webhostdir.com

We registered the domain name in 1997, and have actively developed the business ever since. In September last year it came to our attention that a company had registered a very similar domain name to ours:

http://www.Web********.com

Since then the site has remained undeveloped. Until now! Today I was informed by one of our visitors that they had seen a similar site to ours at the other address. I visited the site and found that they have taken our header images, logo and certain aspects of our page design directly from within our site. Unbelievable! Can anyone suggest what action we should take?

I have contacted the host with which the site is registered, and I'm still waiting for a response. I have also contacted the site owner, and I'm still waiting for a response.

Any help/advice warmly welcome.

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  #2  
Old 03-20-2001, 03:39 PM
MSW MSW is offline
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An email from an attorney is a great way to let them know you are serious.

Some people have big ones (not attorneys, but ...)

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  #3  
Old 03-20-2001, 03:48 PM
James Cross James Cross is offline
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Did you visit their site and compare it to ours? I still cant believe how blatant they're being!

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  #4  
Old 03-20-2001, 04:37 PM
JayC JayC is offline
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Well, that's definitely the same logo. It even says "webhostdir," not "web********." And they even left in the TM graphic, to show that it's, uh... somebody's trademark!

But there don't seem to be any hosts yet in their database, so presumably they're not in operation yet. While it's pretty sleazy to copy what they did, and to place someone else's logo on a site even while under development it may be that they don't plan to keep it that way.

If you're serious about your business, though, I'd certainly have an attorney mail a letter (real legal communication isn't done through email) to them warning them to remove the logo and pointing out that your copyright extends to certain page and design elements. I wouldn't get too worried yet, but you should move to protect your business.

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  #5  
Old 03-20-2001, 04:50 PM
Jaiem Jaiem is offline
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Quick! - Take a screen shot of thier home page with your logo on it!!

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  #6  
Old 03-20-2001, 04:52 PM
MSW MSW is offline
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Yes, Jay, you are correct. mail is the way to go. I am just so used to giving out my email and saying email that mail is starting to drift out of my head.

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  #7  
Old 03-20-2001, 05:01 PM
MikePalmer MikePalmer is offline
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Hey James,

We have the same problem all the time. We normally try to contact the hosting provider because it is usually a violation of their TOS and we also contact the person who owns the site to let them know that they are in violation of copyright law.

This works sometimes, and not others. I have found that web hosts are not that cooperative, and most of time it takes a direct letter from our attorney to the person who owns the site.

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  #8  
Old 03-20-2001, 05:35 PM
Vortech Vortech is offline
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Copyright Infringement

One thing you can also do is send a e-mail / Mail / Fax to there host or backbone as well. Backbone like UUnet and Verio will trun there lines off if they don't remove it if you prove it is copy righted.

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  #9  
Old 03-20-2001, 07:42 PM
BC BC is offline
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From their WHOIS alone :


Technical Contact:
Fasthosts, Domain Admin Team domains@fasthosts.co.uk
154 Southgate Street
Discovery Court
Gloucester, GL1 2EX
UK
+44 (01452) 541499

That alone suggests to me that they're hosted on FastHosts or a reseller of. Time to give them a little buzz

(can someone do an IP block check and confirm this please? I can't get to SamSpade at this point. Ta)

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  #10  
Old 03-20-2001, 09:10 PM
Vortech Vortech is offline
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Web********.com

This should be every thing you need for Web********.com and to get them to stop useing your stuff.
Whois:
Registrant:
MPoweR IT Ltd
'Tranquillity' 29 Southwood Av
Southbourne Bournmouth
Dorset, BH6 3QB
UK

Domain Name: WEB********.COM

Administrative Contact:
Roberts, Michael MPoweRIT@aol.com
'Tranquillity' 29 Southwood Av
Southbourne Bournmouth
Dorset, BH6 3QB
UK
01202 382962

Technical Contact:
Fasthosts, Domain Admin Team domains@fasthosts.co.uk
154 Southgate Street
Discovery Court
Gloucester, GL1 2EX
UK
+44 (01452) 541499

Billing Contact:
Roberts, Michael mpowerit@aol.com
'Tranquillity' 29 Southwood Av
Southbourne Bournmouth
Dorset, BH6 3QB
UK
01202 382962


Record last updated on 20-Mar-2001.
Record expires on 24-May-2001.
Record Created on 24-May-2000.

Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.LIVEDNS.CO.UK 213.171.193.14
NS2.LIVEDNS.CO.UK 213.171.193.250

Trace Route:

traceroute to WEB********.COM (213.171.193.8), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets 1 moe.Firewall.Opus1.COM (192.245.12.96) 5.859 ms 2 Opus-GW (207.182.35.49) 7.812 ms 3 bar2-serial4-0-0-7-0.Anaheim.cw.net (208.172.40.113) 24.413 ms 4 acr2-loopback.Anaheim.cw.net (208.172.34.62) 26.366 ms 5 acr1-loopback.NewYorknyr.cw.net (206.24.194.61) 100.580 ms 6 iar1-loopback.NewYorknyr.cw.net (206.24.194.23) 100.579 ms 7 bcr1-so-6-0-0.Amsterdam.cw.net (208.173.135.18) 179.676 ms 8 bcr1-so-6-0-0.Thamesside.cw.net (166.63.211.177) 180.652 ms 9 bcr1-so-0-2-0.London.cw.net (166.63.211.150) 188.464 ms10 bt-telecommunications.London.cw.net (166.63.163.226) 175.770 ms11 core3-gig2-0.ealing.ukcore.bt.net (194.72.9.153) 176.746 ms12 core3-pos10-0.reading.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.120.206) 177.723 ms13 core3-pos8-0.birmingham.ukcore.bt.net (195.99.120.225) 181.629 ms14 mspaccess1-fa0-0-0.birmingham.fixed.bt.net (62.6.196.7) 183.582 ms15 62.7.239.178 (62.7.239.178) 187.488 ms16 213.171.193.8 (213.171.193.8) 189.441 ms


There ip is 213.171.193.8 most likley a IPLess Domain.

RIPE.net Whois for 213.171.193.8

inetnum: 213.171.192.0 - 213.171.197.255
netname: FASTHOSTS-UK-NETWORK
descr: UK's largest web hosting company
descr: based in Gloucester, England
country: GB
admin-c: RC2965-RIPE
tech-c: MW8691-RIPE
status: ASSIGNED PA
changed: hostmaster@ripe.net 20000510
source: RIPE

route: 213.171.192.0/19
descr: FasthostInternet Ltd
origin: AS2856
mnt-by: BTNET-MNT
changed: paul.mccrystal@bt.net 20000522
source: RIPE

person: Rob Crack
address: Fasthosts Internet Limited
address: Suite 7, Discovery Court
address: 154 Southgate Street
address: Gloucester, GL1 2EX
phone: +44 1452 541251
fax-no: +44 1452 541633
e-mail: rob@fasthosts.co.uk
nic-hdl: RC2965-RIPE
changed: mark@fasthosts.co.uk 20000316
source: RIPE

person: Mark Wood
address: Fasthosts Internet Limited
address: Suite 7, Discovery Court
address: 154 Southgate Street
address: Gloucester, GL1 2EX
phone: +44 1452 541251
fax-no: +44 1452 541633
e-mail: mark@fasthosts.co.uk
nic-hdl: MW8691-RIPE
changed: mark@fasthosts.co.uk 20000316
source: RIPE


So it is 100% FastHost that are hosting this domain and site. I would send them a E-mail first. If you do not get any thing back send a Mail or FAX also.



P.S You are right BC it is fasthosts.co.uk.

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  #11  
Old 03-21-2001, 07:09 AM
James Cross James Cross is offline
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Thanks for all the help guys, I really appreciate it.

Just to bring you up to speed on the events so far. I've contacted fasthosts.co.uk. Unfortunately they do not have anyone who can deal with abuse issues over the phone, they must be addressed to them via email!

I first reported the problem to them 16 hours ago. I've had one confirmation (auto mailer) response, saying they will look into the matter. Since then I have contacted them twice more by phone and three times via email. Still nothing!

I don't think they fully appreciate the business I'm involved in. I've made my living for the past four years from the promotion and marketing hosting providers. Negative press can really damage a business no matter what its size. Just ask *****.

What's worse is we gave them an industry award this month! Nothing beats first hand experience ;-)

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  #12  
Old 03-21-2001, 07:59 AM
James Cross James Cross is offline
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Update

Some more news, we've been looking into the company responsible for the site.

http://www.webshopfronts.co.uk

Aside from the fact that they have completely ripped of the menu bars from our previous site release (1999/00)

We started looking into their client base and found a couple of the sites they've "designed".

Check out this site and then look at webhostdir.com. You might see some similarities.

I can see this issue escalating. I'll keep you all up to date on developments.

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  #13  
Old 03-21-2001, 10:25 AM
James Cross James Cross is offline
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Another Update

Heres all the correspondance we've had with fasthosts.co.uk. As you can see they're really bending over backwards to help us!


-----Original Message-----
From: James Cross [mailto:james.cross@inspiringtech.com]
Sent: 20 March 2001 19:01
To: abuse@fasthosts.co.uk
Cc: Lindsey Rodgers; Hugh Choudhury; Kevin Smith; Tommy Lai
Subject: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Our company has been informed of a serious copyright infringement by one of
your clients. A Mr Michael Roberts, currently has a site
http://www.Web********.com hosted with you. Mr Roberts has blatantly registered a
domain extension similar to our own http://www.WebHostDir.com with the intention of
profiteering from our brand, which has been established since 1997.

On the 29th of September we held a meeting with your client to establish his
intentions for the development of his site. We made our legal stance very
clear and Mr Roberts provided us with a signed letter stating that he had no
intention of developing the site for commercial purposes.

However it has now come to our attention that Mr Roberts has placed our
companies own header images, logo and page content into his own site. This
action is being regarded extremely seriously by our Board of Directors. Our
technical team have taken screen shots to substantiate our claims, and will
be forwarding it to our legal advisors by close of play 21st March 2001, if
no action has been taken by either yourselves or MR Roberts.

We recognise that as a host it is extremely difficult to ascertain the full
intentions of your clients hosting requirements, and as such do not hold you
directly responsible to date for Mr Roberts actions.

Please have one of your management team contact me urgently so that this
matter does not escalate any further.



-----Original Message-----
From: Erin-Lee Mills [mailto:abuse@fasthosts.co.uk]
Sent: 21 March 2001 09:31
To: james.cross@inspiringtech.com
Subject: RE: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Dear Mr Cross,

Thank you for your email regarding http://www.web********.com.

With reference to the content of your email, I can confirm that the
appropriate action will been taken as soon as possible.

In the meantime if you have any other query's please don't hesitate to
contact us.

Yours sincerely

Miss Erin Mills
Abuse Investigation Team
Fasthosts Internet Ltd
abuse@fasthosts.co.uk



-----Original Message-----
From: James Cross [mailto:james.cross@inspiringtech.com]
Sent: 21 March 2001 09:51
To: Erin-Lee Mills
Cc: Hugh Choudhury; Kevin Smith; Tommy Lai; Lindsey Rodgers
Subject: RE: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Miss Mills,

Can you please confirm that the offending site will be deactivated
immediately. As stated in my original message I would like one of your
management team to contact us immediately so that this matter may be
resolved. Since first reporting the infringement, the site has remained
operational for 15 hours.

James Cross
Managing Director


-----Original Message-----
From: Erin-Lee Mills [mailto:abuse@fasthosts.co.uk]
Sent: 21 March 2001 12:10
To: james.cross@inspiringtech.com
Subject: RE: COPYRIGHT INFRINGEMENT


Dear Mr Cross,

Thank you for your email.

I appreciate the urgency of this matter and assure you that reasonable steps
are being taken to resolve this situation as quickly as possible.

Thank you for your patience in this matter.

Yours sincerely,

Miss Erin Mills
Abuse Investigation Team
Fasthosts Internet Ltd
abuse@fasthosts.co.uk



Miss Mills

We would like an explanation as to why you have not yet:

1. Contacted us by phone, as requested.
2. Deactivated the offending web site.

This matter does not require deep investigation. A 5 min visit to both sites will reveal the obvious nature of their offence.

I believe your technical directors direct line is: +44 1452 538 484 Would the process be speeded up if I were to contact him directly?

Since us first reporting this matter we have made further discoveries relating to your offending client. The site http://www.carsharecentral.com designed by the same company and again hosted on your servers, is again blatantly displaying design features taken from within our site http://www.webhostdir.com.

I should inform you that we are the industry leader in evaluation and independent assessment of hosting providers. So far your company, a current award winner within our site, is failing to perform its role as a leading UK provider.

James Cross
Managing Director

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  #14  
Old 03-21-2001, 10:45 AM
kunal kunal is offline
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why dunt you just hire a lawyer?

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  #15  
Old 03-21-2001, 10:52 AM
James Cross James Cross is offline
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We felt that the time it would take for a lawyer to react was too long. If they have not deactivated the offending site by the end of the day, we will refer the matter over to our lawyers.

I was hoping it wouldnt have to go that far.

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