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  1. #1
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    Cogent going out of business?!?!

    Ive had many colocation companies suggest that cogent would not be a good option because they are loosing $2 for every $1 of bandwidth they are currently selling?!?!

    I dont understand how this can be true and they still be in business, wouldnt they have gone out of business already.
    The colocation companies that suggest this dont offer cogent, and that may be a complete lie, but then again it could be true...

    I dont know, does anyone know anything about this??

  2. #2
    This was some time ago now (maybe a year ago) but I remember reading that the CEO of Cogent's salary was more that their revenues

    Maybe when you are being paid so well, you don't really mind that the party will end one-day.

  3. #3
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    So now cogent is stable you would say?
    Im worried if i colo my servers on a cogent connection that one day the guys at cogent will just descide that they have enough Mansions and Vets and pull the plug and little guys like me would be screwed...
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  4. #4
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    Originally posted by jdp29053
    worried if i colo my servers on a cogent connection that one day the guys at cogent will just descide that they have enough Mansions and Vets and pull the plug
    I'd be personally worried about this with any provider I used, if it were the only one utilized. Your best chance of a good night's sleep is to have your server in a facility that has multiple providers. The more the merrier. NAC is a nice choice

    Greg Moore
    Former Webhost... now, just a guy.

  5. #5
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    They have enough venture capital left to last around another year. I doubt they will go out of business due to having enough nice houses its more like they will run out of venture capital.
    If you are looking for long term stability look for a host that is truly multihomed not with a "backup" line to a better provider. Most of the little isps who have cheap services and cogent will not be able to afford to stay in business if they have to switch to their backup lines permanently.

  6. #6
    Just my two cents and worth about that much - but if Cogent or any major bandwidth supplier went under wouldn't the other providers see that as an opportunity to pick up large chunks of business?

    It seems to me that companies - especially Verio they seem to be very aggressive in thesales department - would be waiting in the wings with bandwidth offers in the event that a competitor shut it's doors. I've seen this in every other business I've been involved with or followed closely and can't imagine it would be much different in this one.

  7. #7
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    I have no problem with Cogent hosts - I think Cogent is an excellent alternative for non-business sites. It definitely fills a huge need in the market.

    That being said, I've talked with Cogent corporate staff who've shared revenue vs. burn rate figures off the record, and it doesn't look too good for the long term. Any host using Cogent as a primary feed without a backup contract in place for the full amount of capacity they need is a fool. I do dread the day that Cogent does go under, because if they do, it's going to turn the bottom end of this market (the one this forum is geared toward) upside down in a severe fashion.

    Not to say I told you so, but as a measure of common sense, make backup plans now. Not because of some impending doom, but because its the smart thing to do for any customer. I am not looking forward to the overwhelming chorus of whining that's sure to emerge from everyone who thinks they got screwed when their 800GB for $49/month hosts go under.

    Brandon

  8. #8
    Yes, yes, an important distinction to make is between cogent's merit as a network versus their commercial viability. Even our beloved NAC.net uses cogent! Why wouldn't you - for the price!

    Let's face it, we are, most of us, flying blind over all this stuff. I mean how do I know any of my upstreams are financial? We go on reputation and service and trust, but that won't stop them dropping off the face of the earth tomorow.

    [waiting for Deb to come in to tell us about why she built her own data center]

  9. #9
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    Maybe this thread should be pointed to the more relavent cogent finances, where all of the people who said "cogent wont be around in 6 months" went *gasp*. Last quarter I do believe Cogent came up witha 530% growth, and were above or right on their expected income according to their business plan. Thats more then might be said for most carriers .

  10. #10
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    So would people say that cogent is definately heading towards an end in the near(1-2years) future??
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  11. #11
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    you people and your growth statement, hehe... WHo cares how much cogents growing, if i go out on the streets and sell playstations for 10.00 you better believe im going to be selling a ton all day everyday, but it doesnt mean im making any money.
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by cbaker17
    you people and your growth statement, hehe... WHo cares how much cogents growing, if i go out on the streets and sell playstations for 10.00 you better believe im going to be selling a ton all day everyday, but it doesnt mean im making any money.
    The point i was making that Cogent is still on track with the original business plan at this point. Obviously that business plan has very profitable ends to it in a few years, otherwise Cogent wouldn't have the type of backing it has, or any backing for that matter.

  13. #13
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    i would say that statement is pure speculation on your part, you have no idea whether cogent will be profitable in a few years. Every company that starts up expects to be profitable, few actually get there.
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  14. #14
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    Originally posted by cbaker17
    you people and your growth statement, hehe... WHo cares how much cogents growing, if i go out on the streets and sell playstations for 10.00 you better believe im going to be selling a ton all day everyday, but it doesnt mean im making any money.
    haha your damn right!
    Devon Dunham (Owner, Sharpnet/DDoS Host)
    Advanced DDoS Mitigation and Server Management Solutions

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    Est. 1998.

  15. #15
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    * How do you know?

    Originally posted by porcupine


    The point i was making that Cogent is still on track with the original business plan at this point. Obviously that business plan has very profitable ends to it in a few years, otherwise Cogent wouldn't have the type of backing it has, or any backing for that matter.
    Do you work for cogent? Where are these reports?
    Devon Dunham (Owner, Sharpnet/DDoS Host)
    Advanced DDoS Mitigation and Server Management Solutions

    Protecting your online infrastructure.

    Est. 1998.

  16. #16
    Greetings:

    "but if Cogent or any major bandwidth supplier went under wouldn't the other providers see that as an opportunity to pick up large chunks of business?"

    Over the years, we've had many opportunities to purchase other companies.

    Almost all of those opportunities where avoided because the companies we examined competed on price not value.

    This meant we would have to increase the price to their customers (that we purchased as a result); and since those customers probably shopped on price rather than on value, we would loose those customers.

    While NTT/Verio and others are looking to increase their business, they most likely would not purchase unless they knew that customers of that company being purchased can afford the price that it takes to stay in business.

    Thank you.
    ---
    Peter M. Abraham
    LinkedIn Profile

  17. #17
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    Originally posted by cbaker17
    i would say that statement is pure speculation on your part, you have no idea whether cogent will be profitable in a few years. Every company that starts up expects to be profitable, few actually get there.
    "Pure Speculation"? I stated "Last quarter I do believe Cogent came up witha 530% growth, and were above or right on their expected income according to their business plan. Thats more then might be said for most carriers" and thats whats been reported, not speculation.

    To speculate that their original business plan is profitable? Every business plan is profitable or it's not a business plan now is it.

    Will they actually ever get there? who knows, i didn't say they would or they wouldn't, i said they were well on track, and thats more then we can say for most.

  18. #18
    You're welcome

  19. #19
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  20. #20
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    **** NEWS FLASH *******

    This just in !!

    Unless you site on the board or are an executive of said named company, all else is simply a rumour.


    **** End news flash *****

  21. #21
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  22. #22
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    "Cogent, which became a public company when it acquired broadband provider Allied Riser last year, has also had its share of financial troubles. In the first six months of 2001, the company lost $28 million after taking in a paltry $90,000 in revenue."

    http://www.nwfusion.com/news/2002/13...4-01-2002.html

    hehe, just throwing more copper into the fire

  23. #23
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    WOW! There is never a simple answer to these things is there???????

    LOL,, I mean are they growing profit wise? Like the analogy on the playstations, the guy is selling an arse of em, but not making money...

    From my understanding cogent isnt making money... is this true, i dont understand why they would be in business if they werent. But rumor has it they are going under because they are loosing apprx. $2 for every $1 of GB they sale... THATS ALOT OF MONEY!
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  24. #24
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    it's called liquidation

    maybe they get Bandwith from Sam's Club at 30 cents a GIG
    you only think they aren't making money but they are!

    they are responsible for over 96% of the US internet "pron" traffic!

    in the end,
    sex sells

  25. #25
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    Sex sells yes,, but if you sale sex below your cost you still loose money....
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  26. #26
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    LOL

  27. #27
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    Hey to pimp hookers cost upkeep, LOL
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  28. #28
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    Well lets throw some more gas on the fire shall we....

    How about this one..

    If cogent DOES stay in business and continues to strengthen there network, doesnt this pretty much mean that other providers are up the creek without a paddle?

    I mean seriously could verio compete with cogents prices no, quality yes, prices no way... (of course im assuming this but could definately be wrong)

    Cogent for some reason reminds me of walmart??? Am i the only one that feels this way?!?! lol
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  29. #29
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    Who cares anyways?

    If any of the above is true, cogent won't be here this time next year.

    COGENT
    WHT PEOPLE WHO THINK DEDICATED SERVERS SHOULD BE $50/mo.
    Devon Dunham (Owner, Sharpnet/DDoS Host)
    Advanced DDoS Mitigation and Server Management Solutions

    Protecting your online infrastructure.

    Est. 1998.

  30. #30
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    LOL i dont think dedicated servers should be $50 a month...

    Im just concerned about where cogent is heading and sense many data centers are relying on cogent im looking for some info on how they are doing...


    LOL we need a guy puking with the words cogent spelled out!!

    NO but seriously does anyone have an idea of if the info about cogent going under is legit or just BS?
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  31. #31
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    Ignorance is bliss, especially around these parts. If you make a hat, and everyone else sells hats at $10 apiece, but you decide to sell yours at $5, are you loosing $5 per hat you sell? Cogent may sell their connectivity at lower rates then others for small quantities, but does that mean they're loosing money on it? If you think so, proove it. A lot of the big boys will compete on cogents level of pricing, if you ask for a gig-e link, you'll find a lot of quotes in the $30-70 ballpark.

    Rackshack is a great example of this. If you're gonna shoot at Cogent for selling stuff like walmart, put your sights on rackshack and wallmart next, because they're doing the same thing, and are doing so quite sucessfully.

    Is cogent going to take over the world? Hahaha, yeah right if cogent was the only link in the entire world, think of how perfect everything would be, no more laggy peering points, no more 56k dialups, everyone would have an even 100mbps running to their home or business wouldn't that be sweet .

    Regardless, if you want to argue cogents finances, dont be like jo-jo's psychic hotline, set a date, tell us when they'll go under, but before you do, read back maybe 6-8 months to all the people then who were setting dates (which have already long passed) that cogent would go under by.

  32. #32
    Greetings:

    "Last quarter I do believe Cogent came up witha 530% growth"

    Growth in what?

    Revenues without profits don't make a company surive ;-)
    ---
    Peter M. Abraham
    LinkedIn Profile

  33. #33
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    I never said they would take over the world, and i work for walmart and i will onlly say this.. its only a matter of time before they go buh-bye... they are not as profitable as people think they are taking huge risks that are simply not paying off at the moment and may or may not break them,, this is what i feel cogent may be doing, do know this, no... thats why i was asking, i wasnt telling,, was askig.....
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  34. #34
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    someone needs to pull up that previous thread, it had all the juicy details in it .

    But it was 530% growth in income, and expenses weren't growing at the same rate (aka the 530% income growth wasn't accompanied bya 530% expense growth also).

    It showed they were getting near break even levels, and on the right track .

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by jdp29053
    I never said they would take over the world, and i work for walmart and i will onlly say this.. its only a matter of time before they go buh-bye... they are not as profitable as people think they are taking huge risks that are simply not paying off at the moment and may or may not break them,, this is what i feel cogent may be doing, do know this, no... thats why i was asking, i wasnt telling,, was askig.....
    Walmart isn't as profitable as people think? Or Cogent? (sounds like you're saying walmart there). Walmart is listed as the 3rd largest/most profitable corporation in the world is it not?

  36. #36
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    No one knows and anyone who does is lying.

    I remember way back in the day when my IBM reps kept telling me that Dell would be out of business in a year. Now most of those guys work for Dell.

    You never know. 8 months ago Worldcom seemed like a good choice for bandwidth. Do they now?

    What about Sprint ION? Remember that?

    How many people bought bandwidth from Global Crossings? They were supposed to have a rock solid business plan.

    Anyone remember a company called Jato? One day they're there with tens of thousands of customers, the next day they're gone. Seriously, overnight everyone cleaned out the offices.

    Northpoint?

    K-mart?

    Hell, my car could crap out tomorrow.

    The point is, you never know. It's just as likely for Verio to go out of business tomorrow as it is Cogent. You should always have a backup plan. People who rely on a single pipe are just stupid.

    You also have to take what your hearing in context. Most of the people saying that Cogent is going out of business don't use them. They've signed commitments with other providers and this is the only way they can compete, or feel they can compete. The only thing they can do is badmouth the provider.

    As with anything, just make sure all your bases are covered and that you have a backup plan and everything should work out okay.

    Aaron
    Aaron Wendel
    Wholesale Internet, Inc. - http://www.wholesaleinternet.net
    Kansas City Internet eXchange - http://www.kcix.net

  37. #37
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    gerbil crossings... erm global crossings...

    They got screwd because they opened up 2 efnet servers that got gigabits of DDoS every day but they were great ircd's! i'll miss *.gblx.net (they disappeared months and months ago afaik, at least my connectivity to them did).

  38. #38
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    porcupine it seems a little odd that you getting on people for speculating that they wont be around, when you yourself are speculating they will be.

    The couple of good reports you here on them pale in comparison to the hundreds you used to see on uunet, exodus, etc... now see where their all at today.

    I think its pretty foolish to say without question any companys doing good, unless you own the company, and even then it seems ceo's seldom even know how good their companys really doing.
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  39. #39
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    cbaker17, where do you see me speculating they will be around. I simply stated by the reports they're on track with whats stated in their business plan, and that they wouldn't be in business if that plan didn't indicate they'd turn a buck sooner or later.

    This isn't speculation, it's just numbers that have been previously reported.

  40. #40
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    Charles for once i agree with you!

    How can cogent make enough profits to last around with these prices?

    Maybe revenue but...

    Originally posted by cbaker17
    you people and your growth statement, hehe... WHo cares how much cogents growing, if i go out on the streets and sell playstations for 10.00 you better believe im going to be selling a ton all day everyday, but it doesnt mean im making any money.

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