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  1. #1
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    Managed DNS services - does it make sense?

    I run a small hosting biz (about 50-60 clients, mostly friends and non-profits with a few small businesses thrown in). I have used my own nameservers (registered at namecheap) so far and it has served me well.

    Looking to grow into a professional business and trying to differentiate myself, I am thinking of using Enterprise DNS services from dnsmadeeasy for all the domains hosted with me. Is this worth the trouble?

    I originally thought of additional nameservers using their Vanity DNS services, but the more I think, the more it seems like using dnsmadeeasy for primary dns could be a big draw with potential clients.

    What do the experienced webmasters here recommend?

    Thank you all in advance.
    Last edited by ramdak5000; 09-01-2008 at 01:26 PM. Reason: typo

  2. #2
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    Quite honestly, using your own nameservers would be the best route.

    Using a professional service would be a waste of money. If your nameservers are down, chances are your servers are down and your in deep anyways.
    Dan Sheppard ~ Freelance whatever

  3. #3
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    A professional DNS service might pay off if you have more then one server...with just one it is a waste of money IMHO ...
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  4. #4
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    DNS is really important.

    If you don't currently feel up to becoming a dns expert then using a quality third party is a good option.

    Hopefully if you remain in the business you will become an expert eventually and you will be able to provide as good a service at less cost by doing it yourself.
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  5. #5
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    Sheps, I agree that if the server goes down, then it really doesn't matter if you have the best DNS in the world. In my case, I believe the chances of this happening is rare. I host with ServInt and haven't had any downtime in the last 18 months.

    yolau, that sounds like an interesting point to consider. Could you explain it a bit more? I have only one server at the moment.

    Luxore, I haven't had any problems with my own nameservers so far. Just looking to make it even more robust (and differentiate myself along the way). For example, if I used dnsmadeeasy.com, I would get DNS failover and global anycasting. I admit I am still in the early stages of understanding the full meaning of these things, but it sure does look a lot better than having just a couple of nameservers.

  6. #6
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    If you have DNS servers spread out between at least 2 different facilities, I think you'll be ok without it.

  7. #7
    I use my box as primary and Everydns as secondary. Everydns.net is free and have multiple servers around the globe.

    You could also use your providers's vanity servers also. It's recommended to have 2-7 dns servers.

  8. #8
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    I would suggest you to run a DNS service too on the server you have currently hosted your domains. I don't think that it is gonna be a difficult task to get this accomplished....
    Sony Koithara ,
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  9. #9
    Some things that might swing you one way or the other.

    1. every customer who checks their dns with dnsreports or intodns will have a red mark against the line that says "must be in different class c" unless your server placement complies

    2. you get to offload the cpu cycles and bandwidth, not much, but it is real

    3. you have zero configuration problems

    4. take a look at the technical and security as well as dns forums here, note the number of people whinging about dns problems. those are support tickets you would have to answer if you do it yourself.

    5. do you have as good tutorials and control panels as dnsmadeeasy?

    6. dnsmadeeasy also has divisions called hostingmadeeasy and domainsmadeeasy, you can guess what they do for a living.

    Having a dns server is easy. Doing dns well is hard.

    Try spending all day with a client because his google apps email won't go to yahoo email and he is using MX's in his zone pointed at google servers, and the google servers have incorrect reverse dns on them. And yahoo is very paranoid about reverse dns. And sometimes, the google dns is unresponsive. But, of course it's your fault because you are the smallest chain in the link. That's after spending all day the week before because yahoo couldn't talk to google. Other direction, same players.
    Last edited by plumsauce; 09-02-2008 at 01:17 AM.
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  10. #10
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    Hi,

    If your going to use managed DNS I would recommend that you use it for your business domain names and just use your own servers for your client's domains.

    While it is true that server is down it your site won't work anyway if DNS still works but having both DNS and the hosting down may extend the noticeable downtime for some clients to due caching.
    Common sense is not so common.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    Some things that might swing you one way or the other.

    1. every customer who checks their dns with dnsreports or intodns will have a red mark against the line that says "must be in different class c" unless your server placement complies
    This is exactly the case now.

    When you say server placement, do you mean the servers hosting the domains? All I have is one VPS. The private nameservers I use for the domains hosted on the VPS were registered through namecheap and point to two of the four IP addresses I was provided for the VPS. The domain for which the private nameservers are registered is also hosted on the same VPS. This is my current set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    3. you have zero configuration problems
    You mean, when running the set up I described above or when using something like dnsmadeeasy.com?

    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    4. take a look at the technical and security as well as dns forums here, note the number of people whinging about dns problems. those are support tickets you would have to answer if you do it yourself.
    Again, you mean I would have more support tickets to answer when running dnsmadeeasy.com?

    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    5. do you have as good tutorials and control panels as dnsmadeeasy?
    For the foreseeable future, I am going to handle all this for my clients, so I don't think this is an issue. But, to understand this better - does having managed dns provide the ability for my clients to do it themselves? I don't see this facility with dnsmadeeasy and cPanel anyway doesn't provide this. A bit confused here.

    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    And yahoo is very paranoid about reverse dns.
    Agree. I have clients emailing me all the time about mails sent from their domains not reaching yahoo accounts. Many Indian ISPs have poorly configured Reverse DNS and Yahoo! simply drops these emails.

    Thanks to everyone else too.

  12. #12
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    The very oldest rfcs say you should have your nameservers in different places, both netwise and geographically, so that no one event will bring them all down.

    Some people say this isn't important because if your dns is down the servers probably are too, but this isn't completely true. The exception is email.

    If your server or network goes missing temporarily, taking all your nameservers with it, then anyone who tries to send mail to one of your customers will get an immediate and confusing failure message.

    Then they phone the person they are trying to email and that person phones you.

    If however your server disappears momentarily, but you still have a functioning nameserver in another location, the email will be accepted from the sender and queued on their outbound mailserver until the message can be delivered (or until the retry time-out expires).

    In my opinion that's a better thing to have happen. You don't want people phoning you every time there is a net burp or you have to reboot your server.

    So despite what practically every cpanel "host" says, there is benefit to having nameservers in different places.
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  13. #13
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    @Luxore
    Nicely put.

    I want to add a question, is there any 3rd party dns service provider which make us possible to syncronize with our cpanel server? or maybe other panel server.
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  14. #14
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plumsauce
    Some things that might swing you one way or the other.

    1. every customer who checks their dns with dnsreports or intodns will have a red mark against the line that says "must be in different class c" unless your server placement complies

    This is exactly the case now.

    When you say server placement, do you mean the servers hosting the domains? All I have is one VPS. The private nameservers I use for the domains hosted on the VPS were registered through namecheap and point to two of the four IP addresses I was provided for the VPS. The domain for which the private nameservers are registered is also hosted on the same VPS. This is my current set up.
    No, I mean the dns server ip addresses. To pass the test, they must be in separate class c(/24) ip networks. One test even notes if they are in different ASN's.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plumsauce
    3. you have zero configuration problems

    You mean, when running the set up I described above or when using something like dnsmadeeasy.com?
    No dns servers on your box means no dns servers to setup or maintain on your box.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plumsauce
    4. take a look at the technical and security as well as dns forums here, note the number of people whinging about dns problems. those are support tickets you would have to answer if you do it yourself.

    Again, you mean I would have more support tickets to answer when running dnsmadeeasy.com?
    You would probably have less tickets to deal with if someone else is responsible for the dns. This is related to #3.

    Quote:
    Originally Posted by plumsauce
    5. do you have as good tutorials and control panels as dnsmadeeasy?

    For the foreseeable future, I am going to handle all this for my clients, so I don't think this is an issue. But, to understand this better - does having managed dns provide the ability for my clients to do it themselves? I don't see this facility with dnsmadeeasy and cPanel anyway doesn't provide this. A bit confused here.
    Sorry, that was easydns.com that has the tutorials.

    BTW, with respect to what LUXORE says, some hosts find it advantageous to maintain their own sites away from the customer sites. That way, if the customer server goes down, they are still reachable for email and support tickets. If you maintain them on the same box, you could be blindsided by an outage.
    edgedirector.com
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  15. #15
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    DNS Made Easy gives you an IP anycasted DNS environment. So worldwide your DNS queries will be answered quicker.
    But in the end if you are hosting just in one location then having a redundant DNS solution does not do that much in redundancy for your own hosting. It would just be one less thing to worry about and your DNS will never go down.
    People that state that DNS Made Easy is the same as if you ran DNS on own of your own VPSs or dedicated servers just have very little knowledge on enterprise DNS architectures or what they really do.

  16. #16
    But in the end if you are hosting just in one location then having a redundant DNS solution does not do that much in redundancy for your own hosting.
    Quite right.

    However, having dnsreports give a green light in dns tests can help to present a more professional appearance both for the OP and his customers.
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  17. #17
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    The MX issue is exactly the point. And if your support email is on the same VPS also, if something happens and your customers try to email you regarding downtime you do not want to lose those emails, you want to be able to reply when you are back up.

    You can have most external providers sync with cpanel. Set them to be secondary DNS servers with your cpanel server as the master. They should pick up any changes as they are made. Then, just publish their DNS servers in the actual domain records and leave your cpanel server out of it.

    Finally, people are saying things about reverse dns and mail here. While it is true that it needs to be set up, if you are on a VPS the reverse block is probably not under your control. You would need to have rdns set up by contacting your provider in most cases.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    No, I mean the dns server ip addresses. To pass the test, they must be in separate class c(/24) ip networks. One test even notes if they are in different ASN's.
    They're on the same ip network now. If I were to add a couple of nameservers as vanity nameservers through dnsmadeeasy.com, they would be on different networks, correct?

    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    BTW, with respect to what LUXORE says, some hosts find it advantageous to maintain their own sites away from the customer sites. That way, if the customer server goes down, they are still reachable for email and support tickets. If you maintain them on the same box, you could be blindsided by an outage.
    I am hearing this more frequently on different forums. Sounds a very sensible thing to do. So, if I have 4 nameservers, I suppose I could use 2 for my hosting company domain and the remaining 2 for the server that hosts my clients?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxore View Post
    If however your server disappears momentarily, but you still have a functioning nameserver in another location, the email will be accepted from the sender and queued on their outbound mailserver until the message can be delivered (or until the retry time-out expires).
    Thanks for this. This is something I hadn't considered as an advantage when having multiple nameservers dispersed geographically.
    Last edited by ramdak5000; 09-03-2008 at 08:27 AM. Reason: typo

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    No dns servers on your box means no dns servers to setup or maintain on your box.
    Actually, the dns servers are indeed running on my vps. But Servint do such a good job with their maintenance (including the reverse dns) that I have never once had a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkc View Post
    Finally, people are saying things about reverse dns and mail here. While it is true that it needs to be set up, if you are on a VPS the reverse block is probably not under your control. You would need to have rdns set up by contacting your provider in most cases.
    If I had my entire DNS with a 3rd party like dnsmadeeasy, wouldn't the reverse dns be done there? That is, wouldn't I have the entire control? I don't quite get it.

    Quote Originally Posted by mkc View Post
    You can have most external providers sync with cpanel. Set them to be secondary DNS servers with your cpanel server as the master. They should pick up any changes as they are made. Then, just publish their DNS servers in the actual domain records and leave your cpanel server out of it.
    Trying to understand this a bit better. Right now my cPanel VPS runs the dns servers for all my hosted domains including my own business domain. If I were to add a couple of vanity nameservers through dnsmadeeasy or any other 3rd party service, would I need to set up those vanity nameservers as the secondary DNS servers? Is there a specific how-to you could suggest for setting up the syncing?

    Also, could you please explain 'just publish their DNS servers in the actual domain records and leave your cPanel server out of it'?

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramdak5000 View Post
    If I had my entire DNS with a 3rd party like dnsmadeeasy, wouldn't the reverse dns be done there? That is, wouldn't I have the entire control? I don't quite get it.
    Your upstream isp needs to delegate control of the range to you or your dns servers will never be queried.

    While normal dns is determined by the nameservers listed in the whois entry of a domain, the reverse dns is not since when doing a reverse lookup you know the ip block and not the domain.

    See https://www.dnsmadeeasy.com/s0306/tuts/reverse_dns.html

    Quote Originally Posted by ramdak5000 View Post
    Trying to understand this a bit better. Right now my cPanel VPS runs the dns servers for all my hosted domains including my own business domain. If I were to add a couple of vanity nameservers through dnsmadeeasy or any other 3rd party service, would I need to set up those vanity nameservers as the secondary DNS servers? Is there a specific how-to you could suggest for setting up the syncing?
    You let cpanel run its own dns so your users can continue to manage their own DNS settings through cpanel. If you don't do this then when customers want to set up addon domains and parked domains through cpanel, it would require intervention on your part to make sure your the dns entries are matching what CPanel thinks things should look like.

    Then set up other servers as slaves to this. This lets you make changes through cpanel, but gives you the redundancy of the off-site servers.

    Then, point the actual domains to nsX.dnsmadeeasy.com instead of nsX.yourdomain.com and you keep all the traffic on their servers and not on yours.

    See https://www.dnsmadeeasy.com/s0306/prod/secdns.html

    All this said, if you can keep your mail server off your customer machine, do it. In addition to remaining available during downtime it is also better from a security standpoint. If someone does manage to hack your server, you don't want them seeing things in your ticket system.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luxore View Post
    ...
    If however your server disappears momentarily, but you still have a functioning nameserver in another location, the email will be accepted from the sender and queued on their outbound mailserver until the message can be delivered (or until the retry time-out expires).

    In my opinion that's a better thing to have happen. You don't want people phoning you every time there is a net burp or you have to reboot your server.

    So despite what practically every cpanel "host" says, there is benefit to having nameservers in different places.
    Actually, although this is common belief, this is just not true according to the RFCs internet architecture is essentially based on.

    Mail is always queued, whether the DNS server is down, or whether the server is down - either or both. This is mandated by the specs that specify how email is to be transported. The key here is that a completely different error is actually returned if a domain doesn't exist - NXDOMAIN - and it's that NXDOMAIN error that would cause mail to bounce. Mail Transfer Agents (such as sendmail, exim, postfix and qmail) all know when a request times out that they should wait and retry the message.

    So, if you have a singlehomed server, there really is no value to be gained by distributing DNS service. If however you have services running from multiple IPs there is a LOT of value in having your DNS records for that domain distributed.

    As far as I recall, there is some validity to the claim above that a site may appear to be down slightly longer if DNS access isn't available; I beleive the rule is that negative answers can be cached for 30 minutes. However, this is just from memory, and I'm not sure whether a timeout constitutes a negative answer, perhaps someone can answer authoritatively.

    And as plumsauce says, having your nameservers on different IP ranges is good for the proletariat when they run intodns or something similar and see a red line. If you charge high dollar rates, that's a real consideration, otherwise I'd talk them out of it.

    And don't get me started on secondary mail service. Ugh. Great way to collect extra spam and to lose mail (through accidental misconfiguration over time).

    The rule with a lot of this stuff in sysadmin is really a simple one - keep your systems simple - KISS. The simpler a system is, the more you understand it, the more stable it is. That doesn't mean you can't take redundancy measures, obviously, but if I had a $1 for every time I've seen a complex system fail because of that complexity, I'd be pretty happy!

  23. #23
    Sheps, I agree that if the server goes down, then it really doesn't matter if you have the best DNS in the world. In my case, I believe the chances of this happening is rare. I host with ServInt and haven't had any downtime in the last 18 months.
    And when the server would be available again some users still won't be able to access the website due to DNS cache.

    I host with ServInt and haven't had any downtime in the last 18 months.
    Impossible, do you have any statistics that prove it? If not i bet there were some downtimes, but you didn't noticed.

    If you haven't restarted the machine it doesn't automatically mean that you have 100% uptime.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramdak5000 View Post
    I originally thought of additional nameservers using their Vanity DNS services, but the more I think, the more it seems like using dnsmadeeasy for primary dns could be a big draw with potential clients.

    What do the experienced webmasters here recommend?
    I have no idea why outsourcing your DNS to someone else would be a big draw for your customers. In my experience, outsourcing something as basic as DNS is a red flag that you're not "real".

    Vern

  25. #25

    Free DNS is good but run your own if you have Customer

    If you have few domain names to manage then I suggest using everydns.net or domainsredirect.com. I personally use www.domainsredirect.com for FREE DNS management but commercially we run our own DNS servers.

    For commercial customers who have MISSION CRITICAL stuff you probably are better using a CDN service and their DNS servers split all over the world. For regular customers it doesnt make a difference whether you run your own or use 3rd party as long as they can modify their records (which they can easily be delegated to do with the commercial Control Panels like Plesk.
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  26. #26
    something as basic as DNS is a red flag that you're not "real".
    In theory everything looks 'basic', in fact it isn't.

  27. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by vburke View Post
    I have no idea why outsourcing your DNS to someone else would be a big draw for your customers. In my experience, outsourcing something as basic as DNS is a red flag that you're not "real".
    There are huge benefits to outsourcing your DNS. Look back to the data center failure at The Planet in late May of this year. Customers had servers down for days. Some servers were up, but The Planet's DNS was down. If your DNS is outsourced, you could restore your backups to a new server and update the DNS zone files with the new IP... without going through the hassle of updating your name server IPs with the domain registry and worrying about any customers who might have "private labeled" your name servers.
    DurableDNS - Managed DNS Hosting

  28. #28
    Quote:
    I host with ServInt and haven't had any downtime in the last 18 months.

    Impossible, do you have any statistics that prove it? If not i bet there were some downtimes, but you didn't noticed.
    Actually, it is quite possible. Maybe not in that specific instance, and maybe never seen by you, but it is possible. And has been, as a personal experience, at 585 days straight. On a production server exposed to the internet.
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  29. #29
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    Plum, an uptime of 585 days is impressively spunkily awesome. But it also doesn't mean there were network outages, as they don't affect uptime at all, and do affect users! And of course an uptime of 585 days does mean kernel security patches weren't being applied!! Not to negate the 585 days of awesomeness!

    Quote Originally Posted by HYB-Bryan View Post
    There are huge benefits to outsourcing your DNS. Look back to the data center failure at The Planet in late May of this year. Customers had servers down for days. ... but The Planet's DNS was down.
    That's a great argument certainly, for doing your own DNS, but not necessarily for outsourcing if you run a shared host (if you run high-impact servers, sure, it's a different kettle of fish.)

    Back in the OP's world, I'm not sure that updating IP addresses in 50-60 zones via a potentially clumsy and slow web interface on an outsourced DNS (*) is going to be any easier than updating a single master nameserver to point to the new server, and using a command like "replace" to change the old IPs to the new IPs on the new server in one hit. Additionally, if the old IPs and TTLs are being served up by the outsourced server, unless the TTLs are small you'll have to contend with more of a caching problem when switching over. (failure is only cached for 30 mins, whereas real TTLs are usually higher, like 4 hours)

    I just love it when we get emotionally attached to our favorite solutions rather than thinking clearly about 'em. (of course, I *never* get emotionally attached to My solutions! *never*!

    (*) unless you have global search and replace via the web interface ... or have everything CNAMEd, which is ugly for customers...

    (**) Replace command is part of MySQL (perl can do similar):
    Quote Originally Posted by Manual page
    Invoke replace in one of the following ways:

    shell> replace from to [from to] ... -- file [file] ...
    shell> replace from to [from to] ... < file
    Last edited by brianoz; 09-06-2008 at 03:32 AM.

  30. #30
    Network always can be down - sometimes, even in servint.

    SERVINT: We do have a 99.9% uptime guarantee, which constitutes our network SLA.
    You can only measure uptime using an external service to check your site from several worldwide locations. Servint has very good service, but i bet there were some network downtimes during almost 2 years. 99.9% uptime quarantee / year = 0,365 day of downtime.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by vburke View Post
    I have no idea why outsourcing your DNS to someone else would be a big draw for your customers. In my experience, outsourcing something as basic as DNS is a red flag that you're not "real".

    Vern

    Most small companies do not have an extra $1,000,000 to invest in routers, switches, IPS / IDS, servers, UPS, remote reboots, etc.. in 10+ different facilities to do a true DNS IP anycast deployment. Believe it or not many companies that are starting out only have one VPS / server. To invest $1mil+ just to setup DNS is a lot.

    I'm thinking that is why people will choose to outsource DNS. Get it done the right way... Have the ability to change IPs even when your server is down... And never have to worry about the service.

    Worth a few cents per month per domain for sure.

  32. #32
    Plum, an uptime of 585 days is impressively spunkily awesome. But it also doesn't mean there were network outages, as they don't affect uptime at all, and do affect users! And of course an uptime of 585 days does mean kernel security patches weren't being applied!! Not to negate the 585 days of awesomeness!
    Well, three things

    1. no kernel patches required, not Linux.

    2. network outages would be known, as this was a wholly owned type of situation with complete access to everything. anyways, if a few packets were dropped, it still did not take away from the fact that old gramps chugged away for 585 days, before ...

    3. someone very trusted, and a *licensed* electrician, pulled the wrong plug while trying to wedge more stuff into the rack

    3a. this has been addressed by insisting on redundant power supplies, and zip tying all connections.

    The machine went on to do a number of 400+ day runs, but never again reached 585 before it died an honourable death. Dual Pentium Pro 200MHZ, 512MB, 4x2.0GB hardware raid. You should be able to get more than that for $0.25/month these days

    In the meantime, there are a number of BSD machines on the internet that have 900+ day uptimes in the *.jp zone. They seem to make a habit of it. The problem for BSD is that the uptimes as recorded in the network stack are capped at around 900. So, some of those machines have been up for more than that. It just can't be seen.

    Oh, little known factoid. Of the top 50 uptimes observed globally, not 1 machine runs Linux. The OS's that are in the list include mostly *BSD, then Windows, then Solaris. The cutoff to make it into the top 50 is about 800 days.
    Last edited by plumsauce; 09-06-2008 at 05:14 AM.
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  33. #33
    Quote:
    Originally Posted by vburke
    I have no idea why outsourcing your DNS to someone else would be a big draw for your customers. In my experience, outsourcing something as basic as DNS is a red flag that you're not "real".

    Vern
    To be very simplistic, installing dns is easy. Doing dns well is hard. DNS outsourcers are specialists in one thing, DNS. Tech support levels vary, but at least in theory, you are benefiting from dealing with a specialist.

    Most small companies do not have an extra $1,000,000 to invest in routers, switches, IPS / IDS, servers, UPS, remote reboots, etc.. in 10+ different facilities to do a true DNS IP anycast deployment. Believe it or not many companies that are starting out only have one VPS / server. To invest $1mil+ just to setup DNS is a lot.

    I'm thinking that is why people will choose to outsource DNS. Get it done the right way... Have the ability to change IPs even when your server is down... And never have to worry about the service.

    Worth a few cents per month per domain for sure.
    Agreed

    Except for the million dollars. If you look way back in history, most of the outsourcers, including Ultradns/Neustar, started on less. They got their VC money after building up and out.

    The hardest part of the exercise, for at least one person on the team, is to read and *understand* reams and reams of RFC's about what is probably the most important and most badly designed protocol used on the internet. Then, if you do anycast, better have someone who is also very comfortable with BGP. Finally, if you decide that the usual three pieces of software aren't suitable, then you also have to have someone who can code all of the above. Correctly.

    Ummm.., ok, maybe the million is about right
    Last edited by plumsauce; 09-06-2008 at 05:38 AM.
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  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by plumsauce View Post
    Ummm.., ok, maybe the million is about right
    Yeah.. You have to figure (even if you did it the cheapest possible).
    Router / Switch (cheapo cisco that can hadle multiple providers and do BGP) - $8k
    IDS / IPS (the cheapest TopLayer) - $20k
    Servers - $8k
    Remote Reboot - $500
    Let's skip KVM over IP for now...
    ------------------------
    $36,500 per location
    Let's just say you go small with 10 locations... That's $365,000 in just hardware.
    Each location you figure needs setup costs... shipping... installation... rack costs... power costs... bandwidth commit costs....

    Yeah.. a million isn't too far off.

  35. #35
    Yeah.. a million isn't too far off.

    Well, the infrastructure part is not insurmountable. There are a variety of ways to bootstrap that. Sort of like the old joke:

    Q. How do you become a millionaire in the stock market?

    A. Start off as a billionaire

    But, the intellectual property part, that's the kicker. It's not off the shelf stuff that you can just download from somewhere.

    And then, the hardest part ... finding customers
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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by BuffaloBill View Post
    Most small companies do not have an extra $1,000,000 to invest in routers, switches, IPS / IDS, servers, UPS, remote reboots, etc.. in 10+ different facilities to do a true DNS IP anycast deployment. Believe it or not many companies that are starting out only have one VPS / server. To invest $1mil+ just to setup DNS is a lot.
    And most companies don't need that sort of infrastructure. We started out in a one room office, not a 6-story skyscraper! For sure it's worth a few cents a month, if you have a single dedicated host, maybe, but it's not worth it if you run a shared host as tangible business benefits just aren't there.

  37. #37
    And most companies don't need that sort of infrastructure.
    Exactly, but isn't that why third party services exist?

    It's very much like webhosting. The customer rents a piece of the pie from the webhosting company, who has rented a piece of the pie from a server provider, who has rented a piece of the pie from a data center ...

    Australia, and most of the PacRim region is actually a hotbed of interest in innovative dns techniques for traffic distribution. With bandwidth being so expensive, some sites want a fast local presence, but also want to process international traffic where bandwidth is cheaper. The solution for them is to host locally for the local audience and elsewhere for international audiences.

    Indeed, some Asian multimedia companies could not achieve their latency requirements for North America until they placed servers in North America and distributed their traffic. And, some of those "servers" are in fact squid caches running in reverse proxy mode. They condidered the fact that bandwidth was cheaper to be a bonus in the whole exercise.
    Last edited by plumsauce; 09-07-2008 at 05:59 PM.
    edgedirector.com
    managed dns global failover and load balance (gslb)
    exactstate.com
    uptime report for webhostingtalk.com

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
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    Just wanted to throw this in there for those with cPanel and want some off server/site DNS server. cPanel offers a standalone DNS server software that syncs with your main server and you could run it in a VPS or a dedicated server somewhere and have redundant DNS this way.
    http://www.cpanel.net/products/dnsonly/index.htm

  39. #39
    cPanel offers a standalone DNS server software that syncs with your main server and you could run it in a VPS or a dedicated server somewhere
    That would be a second dns server, yes. The same thing you could do with any old piece of free dns software capable of AXFR transfers.

    But, it does not address the concerns of the OP with respect to the business aspects of running DNS.
    edgedirector.com
    managed dns global failover and load balance (gslb)
    exactstate.com
    uptime report for webhostingtalk.com

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    435
    Thanks, everyone, for all the valuable info. My head is still spinning from trying to absorb all the technical details and especially the pros and cons of managed DNS.

    I also discussed this back and forth with the dnsmadeeasy support staff (I have an account there, but no services yet) and it didn't seem too difficult until it got to the point where I asked them how to handle the mirroring of the domains, content and the databases to achieve full dns failover etc. They said I would have to get a techie to do this for me.

    To keep a long story short, it does seem worthwhile to add a couple of vanity nameservers through dnsmadeeasy.com (other than my regular nameservers) and explore the full dns failover and load balancing options when the business grows enough to demand it. I also read somewhere that an alternative may be to use CDN to have proxied web sites. Is that the same or cheaper or am I getting confused?

    Frankly, I started exploring this after reading Seth Godin's Purple Cow book which is all about trying to be 'remarkable' to succeed in business. I wrote down a list of things that would differentiate my company from the run-of-the-mill host and enterprise DNS was one of them. This thread has given me a lot to think about.
    Last edited by ramdak5000; 09-09-2008 at 09:55 AM. Reason: typo

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