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  1. #1

    Hostpacket Has Fudged Their Comparison Chart

    I know I'll get blasted by certain individuals for starting a new forum topic on this, but it's just TOO IMPORTANT an issue to be ignored or overlooked.

    This is an attempt at outright fraud by Kevin from Hostpacket.

    The motive is no doubt a vain attempt to stop customers getting a refund when they request a charge-back.

    But his attempt WON'T WORK, as myself and other individuals expected he's try this stunt, so we amassed the evidence beforehand. Read on ...

    TO ALL HOSTPACKET CUSTOMERS - CLAIM YOUR REFUND NOW
    =============================================

    Kevin has just admitted his guilt, and his outright fraudulent tactics of baiting people into signing up for his service with his bogus & fake guarantees that he doesn't deliver upon.

    No, he hasn't admitted his guilt verbally of course. But he's admitted it THROUGH HIS ACTIONS.

    Guess what he's just done ? He's just "fudged" his comparison chart to try to cover his tracks :

    http://www.hostpacket.net/comparisonchart.php

    3 KEY GUARANTEES have now been removed, I've listed them further below.

    TOO LATE KEVIN - you think all your customers are half-wits and didn't expect you'd do this. Many people (including myself) have already saved a copy of of your original comparison chart onto our hard drives. That's hard, date-stampted, court-admissable evidence that you can't erase.

    You can re-write your own website, but you CAN'T erase the evidence amassed by forward-thinking individuals who saved the original comparison chart on their hard drives, because we all JUST KNEW you would pull a stunt like this.

    I can't believe you thought you'd get away with that. What, did you think we're all idiots ??

    Another individual mentioned on your forum that they'd saved a copy of your original comparison chart using a CNN screen dump tool, complete with a date-stamp in the bitmapped screen dump ! You are GONE now - how could you try this, and think you'd get away with it ?

    Forum moderator (Chicken), can I email you the original comparison chart I've saved (complete with the file-saved date stamp), as evidence "Exhibit A" that proves this vain attempt at fraud.

    All & Sundry, these are the 3 KEY GUARANTEES that existed on Kevin's original comparison chart which he's now REMOVED :

    Primary Features
    ================
    * 30-Day Money Back Guarantee
    * Daily Backup

    Hardware Features
    =================
    * 99.9% Uptime Guarantee


    ... face it Kevin, your game is UP.

    The only thing you can do now to climb out of the pile of sh*t you got yourself into, is to stop being a jerk and PROCESS ALL OF THE REFUNDS IMMEDIATELY, WITHOUT QUESTION.

    And go ahead, call me a "bad guy" or whatever other slander you'd like to throw at me.

    At the end of the day, you've only got YOURSELF TO BLAME for outright profiteering, by baiting people into signing up for your service with all your bogus & fake guarantees, that you NEVER intended to deliver upon.

    POSTSCRIPT:
    =========
    Some of you may say, Kevin's got a right to alter his service offering from time-to-time. Well I agree, yes he does.

    But let's face it folks, this is NOT the reason Kevin has changed it. We all know him too well. The sole reason he's changed the comparison chart NOW is to try to DENY HE EVER OFFERED THOSE 3 KEY GUARANTEES when customers request charge-backs from their credit card providers.


    David.
    Consumer Advocate.

  2. #2
    I think what Kelvin did is too bad.If he can say sorry and refund to us, we can give him a chance. But now, no people will give him a chance.
    I guess his site will close soon.
    Too bad.
    It's a good choice for me to leave his company quickly.

  3. #3
    Are your lives really this boring?????


    Are they?????

    That's all I have to say

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    76
    Originally posted by Big-Mike
    Are your lives really this boring?????

    Are they?????

    That's all I have to say
    I guess some people feel they've been wronged and want to get it right. Lay off of them. Let them and Kevin work it out.

  5. #5

    I can email the Original Comparison Chart to anyone who needs it as evidence.

    I can email the Original Comparison Chart to anyone who needs it as evidence, should Hostpacket deny their charge-back by claiming they "never made" those 3 key guarantees.

    I saved the Original Comparison Chart from within IE 5.5, as a HTML file.

    The file-saved-date shows when I saved it.

    If you need a copy, simply post your request along with your email address on this forum, and I'll email it to you.

    I also know of at least 1 other person who also saved it, they took screen dumps containing date-stamps using a tool at CNN.COM

    They made a post on Hostpacket's forum about this, under the "please process my refund" thread on their forum.

    Of course Hostpacket might have deleted this thread by now, as they routinely censor their forum by deleting any threads that are critical of their actions, performance or behaviour.

    Not to worry ... I have the evidence, and they can't do anything to delete that.

    David.
    Consumer Advocate.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    76
    can you PM me or email me that file please?

  7. #7
    the word 30-day money-back was never added before August, and it's referring to the refund policy listed in TOS, why not look at the first section and refund policy of our TOS?

    this morning a bad guy just use the guarantee to blame/satire on us, what's the meaning for him to do that for fun??
    Last edited by dk2002; 09-03-2002 at 12:56 PM.

  8. #8
    What's your email address ?

    If I send to info@misssportstalk.com will you receive it ?

  9. #9
    Oh c'mon Kevin, this is getting too much,

    Can't you understand the English language ?

    30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE does NOT mean:

    - you'll only refund the money if you've overcharged
    - you'll only refund the money if you don't set up the account within 72 hours after sign-up

    Read it slowly, word-by-word:

    30 - DAY - MONEY - BACK - GUARANTEE

  10. #10
    Originally posted by dk2002
    the word 30-day money-back was never added before August, and it's referring to the refund policy listed in TOS, why not look at the first section and refund policy of our TOS?

    this morning a bad guy just use the guarantee to blame on us, what's the meaning for him to do that for fun??
    hey kevin for **** sake fix our problems, dont come on here and give lame excuses and lying to us

    REPLY TO OUR EMAILS AND GET US BACK UP RUNNING PROPERLY!!

    i have an email from friday awaiting reply and fixing and also a different problem that came up on saturday needs replying to

    you have better things to be doing than come on here, you should have done that in the first place to tell us whats going on, you have left it too late now but still you arent explaining the problems just coming up with excuses

    trust me you are just winding us up even more

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Mississippi
    Posts
    76
    Originally posted by choose another name
    What's your email address ?

    If I send to info@misssportstalk.com will you receive it ?
    Send it to info@amorypanthers.com I'm not sure my misssportstalk.com addy is working (guess who it is with )

    thanks

  12. #12
    Originally posted by dk2002
    the word 30-day money-back was never added before August
    Kevin, as I can't verify when you ADDED your clim of 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE to the Comparison Chart on your website, let's take your word for the moment and assume this claim was added to the website at the beginning of August.

    Do you therefore accept that you MUST, AT THE BARE MINIMUM, HONOUR THIS GUARANTEE & PROVIDE REFUNDS FOR ALL CUSTOMERS WHO SIGNED UP TO YOUR SERVICE IN THE MONTH OF AUGUST ??

    And I'm sorry to doubt you, but I suspect the guarantee may have been there from the very beginning.

    [B]Can any Hostpacket customers who signed up PRIOR to August recall whether the 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE was on the Comparison Chart at that time ??[B]

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Nov 2000
    Location
    San Diego
    Posts
    3,407
    I can't find the thread as there are so many, but the comparison chart was taken from another company. He said his designer stole it. Maybe that is why he was offering something he didn't want or know he was? He was actually offering stuff from a stolen comparision chart.

  14. #14
    It was by the BS writer!

    that's why I never find writer from internet again

    Originally posted by UmBillyCord
    I can't find the thread as there are so many, but the comparison chart was taken from another company. He said his designer stole it. Maybe that is why he was offering something he didn't want or know he was? He was actually offering stuff from a stolen comparision chart.

  15. #15

    He's accountable for them. PERIOD.

    Originally posted by UmBillyCord
    ... the comparison chart was taken from another company. ... He was actually offering stuff from a stolen comparision chart.
    I don't care what his lame excuse is.

    It doesn't matter where he came up with his claims, though it doesn't surprise me to hear he "lifted" them from somewhere else.

    The fact is, if Kevin put those claims for public display & promotion on his website, then he's accountable for them. PERIOD.

  16. #16
    Originally posted by choose another name

    Kevin, as I can't verify when you ADDED your clim of 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE to the Comparison Chart on your website, let's take your word for the moment and assume this claim was added to the website at the beginning of August.

    Do you therefore accept that you MUST, AT THE BARE MINIMUM, HONOUR THIS GUARANTEE & PROVIDE REFUNDS FOR ALL CUSTOMERS WHO SIGNED UP TO YOUR SERVICE IN THE MONTH OF AUGUST ??

    And I'm sorry to doubt you, but I suspect the guarantee may have been there from the very beginning.

    Can any Hostpacket customers who signed up PRIOR to August recall whether the 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE was on the Comparison Chart at that time ??
    Kevin, stop dodging the issue and ANSER THE QUESTION.

    A simple YES or NO will suffice :

    Do you therefore accept that you MUST, AT THE BARE MINIMUM, HONOUR THIS GUARANTEE & PROVIDE REFUNDS FOR ALL CUSTOMERS WHO SIGNED UP TO YOUR SERVICE IN THE MONTH OF AUGUST ??

  17. #17
    The 30-day money back guarentee was there near the end of july...
    Cube X Hosting
    www.CXHosting.com
    AIM: CubeXH, Yahoo: CubeXH
    ICQ: 141385855

  18. #18
    Originally posted by dk2002
    It was by the BS writer!

    that's why I never find writer from internet again

    God, that's sad. Taking your TOS from another company, and then crying no fault when you have to honor it! This is rich.

    God, if this weren't so sad, it would be funny.

    Who in this world is stupid enough to take their TOS from another company??? That's what people pay lawyers for... so that when the chips fall, they are able to honor their TOS or at least be protected by them. Seems like Kevin here is going to get nothing but a good, hard husk of corn shoved up his ass for this.

    Same as with Cyberwings, I'd recommend everyone who is not getting a refund or service, to start filing reports with your state's attorney general's office. Put this guy out of business.

  19. #19
    Originally posted by choose another name


    Kevin, stop dodging the issue and ANSER THE QUESTION.

    A simple YES or NO will suffice :

    Do you therefore accept that you MUST, AT THE BARE MINIMUM, HONOUR THIS GUARANTEE & PROVIDE REFUNDS FOR ALL CUSTOMERS WHO SIGNED UP TO YOUR SERVICE IN THE MONTH OF AUGUST ??

    does it matter, guarantee or not, my site isnt working, im entitled to a refund no matter what is up on their site. i signed up for webhosting... im currently not recieving it and havent been since it went down!!!!

    its not working now, and to rub it in kevin still isnt fixing our problems as hes still on the message board now

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    54
    What does it matter if "30 day money back" wasn't there prior to August. It wouldn't apply to customer prior to August anyway.

    But every account that started in August it does apply!

    The 30 Day Money Back Guarantee is still on his NEW comparison chart.

    And Kevin still want to decieve people into believing they will get a their money back if they cancel their service in the first 30 days.
    If he really wanted customers to know what the 30-day Money Back Guarantee really meant he would link that term to his TOS refund policy" and also put a note that the refund policy also refers to the 30 day moneyback guarantee.

    No Kevin won't do that because all his competitors are offering a real 30 day Money Back Guarantee.

    Kevin the Deceiver! Kevin the Fraud!

    Originally posted by dk2002
    United we stand, customers let's together and start the anti-bad guys operation
    United we stand (Hostpacket customers lied to, denied refund, broken promises, false guarantees), duped customers let's stick together and start the anti-Kevin-bad guy operation!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
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    Posts
    280
    Mm. Fudge.
    Richard Ward
    1 NET LANE, LLC.
    http://www.1NL.net
    The low cost data center.

  22. #22
    Originally posted by yocalif
    What does it matter if "30 day money back" wasn't there prior to August. It wouldn't apply to customer prior to August anyway.

    But every account that started in August it does apply!

    The 30 Day Money Back Guarantee is still on his NEW comparison chart.

    And Kevin still want to decieve people into believing they will get a their money back if they cancel their service in the first 30 days.
    If he really wanted customers to know what the 30-day Money Back Guarantee really meant he would link that term to his TOS refund policy" and also put a note that the refund policy also refers to the 30 day moneyback guarantee.

    No Kevin won't do that because all his competitors are offering a real 30 day Money Back Guarantee.

    Kevin the Deceiver! Kevin the Fraud!

    United we stand (Hostpacket customers lied to, denied refund, broken promises, false guarantees), duped customers let's stick together and start the anti-Kevin-bad guy operation!
    Kevin's operation is managed like Dad's Army (the British folk will know what I mean there).

    When I checked 8 hours ago he'd removed the 3 guarantees I mentioned :

    * 30-Day Money Back Guarantee
    * Daily Backup
    * 99.9% Uptime Guarantee


    Now he's re-instated them, but they've been changed to this :

    ORIGINAL CHART >> NEW CHART
    ==========================================
    * Daily Backup >> Daily Server Side Backup
    * 99.9% Uptime Guarantee >> 99.5% Uptime Guarantee


    So the backup's now only a "Server Side" backup.

    And the Uptime has now shrinked to 99.5%

    But the REAL INTERESTING ONE is the 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.

    While he's re-instated it on his Comparison Chart, there's a catch ... he's now added a HYPERLINK (there was no hyperlink on the original comparison chart). This links to his TOS, which (as we already know) don't contain any mention of this guarantee within them.

    He still doesn't GET IT, does he ??

    You can't claim 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE and then try to weasle out of it by saying the opposite in your TOS !!

    It doesn't matter what his TOS says, if he promotes a claim of 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE, then that's EXACTLY what he's accoutable to provide his customers with.

    30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE only has ONE MEANING in the English language.

    Kevin seems to think he can git it a diffeent meaning. Sorry Kevin, you can't re-write the dictionary.

    Honour your guarantee and pay the refunds. It's your only option.

  23. #23
    Lesson for prospective Hostpacket customers (I can't believe there'd be anyone that stupid, but just in case) :

    Lesson 1
    =======

    You have to fight Kevin TOOTH AND NAIL THROUGH THE COURTS to ever get a refund, despite his claimed 30-DAY MONEY BACK GUARANTEE

    Lesson 2
    =======

    Save a copy of his Comparison Chart on your hard drive, and keep that copy in a safe place.

    Because sure as hell, the next time you look at the Comparison Chart, he'll have fudged it yet again.

    Who knows how he'll fiddle with it next time ?

    The only way to PROVE what he GUARANTEED YOU, AT THE POINT IN TIME WHEN YOU SIGNED UP, is to save your own copy of the Comparison Chart.

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
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    280
    Take him to court? I think not. Many people misunderstand the United States of America legal system against Internet-related claims without actual "stuff" being involved that you can touch. My lawyer has taught me a lot over the years. You have no case unless you've printed out their entire website before the change, taken screenshots from your browser, and saved every e-mail and phone conversation. After all that, you might get 1 month's payment back. It sounds like you're ready to take this matter to the courts.

    All you're getting from me is two cents.
    Richard Ward
    1 NET LANE, LLC.
    http://www.1NL.net
    The low cost data center.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Posts
    54
    But the REAL INTERESTING ONE is the 30-Day Money Back Guarantee.

    While he's re-instated it on his Comparison Chart, there's a catch ... he's now added a HYPERLINK (there was no hyperlink on the original comparison chart). This links to his TOS, which (as we already know) don't contain any mention of this guarantee within them.
    Well give the little crook credit. He's at least listening to some of us. He finally made a change in the comparison chart.

    Now we need to hammer him to change his TOC to say what a:
    • daily server side backup means? Does anyone know why that is important to a customer?
    • what does 99.5% Uptime mean? So now per month, 3.66 hrs or 220 minutes maximum monthly down time. Does that mean Kevin will give everyone their monthly fee back or the next month for free?
    • 30 day money back guarantee, what are you guaranteeing? That you will keep the money no matter what happens in the first 30 days. With the following exceptions, if you over bill you will issue credit, and if you fail to setup an account in 72 hours the client can cancel and get a refund.
      There is no guarantee for the client! Why is Kevin using 30 days when his TOC is talking about something completely different, 72 hours. There is no connection, they don't mean the same thing.
      I will give you $30 dollars guaranteed, isn't the same as well you only get 72cents. It is not the same.


    Kevin you stupid idiot, WORDS HAVE TO MEAN SOMETHING! Words are chosen to communicate, you say one thing but you mean something else. That is not communication. GET YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS IF YOU WANT TO SAVE YOUR BUSINESS!

    There is a dozen or more people on this site that would help you go through your site and either get rid of the B.S. or help you re-write the features so they mean exactly what they are intended to mean.

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