Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 37
  1. #1

    Who are the best / fastest bandwidth providers?

    Hey,

    I have been reviewing a lot of different data-centers and networks, and everybody seems to use different bandwidth providers. Is there any consensus on who the best (Top 5 maybe?) carriers are? According to WikiPedia.org, there are currently only 9 "true" Tier-1 carriers:

    AOL
    AT&T
    Cogent
    Global Crossing
    Level 3
    Verizon Business
    NTT Communications
    Qwest
    SAVVIS
    Sprint
    Thoughts anyone?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Deschutes, OR, USA
    Posts
    163
    Define: "Best"??

    Best connected? Most customers? A billing dept that sends accurate invoices? Account managers with clue? BGP engineers who aren't surly?

    "Tier-1" is a meaningless term. "Fastest" is also meaningless, unless one of them has the secret to moving light faster than the others.

    I've bought bandwidth from six of the ten that you've listed at one time or another, and I've shopped three of the remaining four (unless you want to lump Time-Warner Telecom in with "AOL" through some long reach of business structure logic. Then add it to my "bought from" list.)

    I'll tell you these things:
    1. I'll only buy from AT&T again under duress, such as strong customer demand. Their network is great. Their billing, sales, and account management departments however should all be sacked. Their BGP-speaking engineers are good people. The suits and bureaucrats are not. Avoid unless unavoidable.

    2. I've never bought from Cogent. I have seen their POPs however, and they scare me. Baling wire, chewing gum & BGP hold their network together, in that order.

    3. GC: never dealt with them, beyond price quotes.

    4. L3. Great network, good routes. Straightforward invoicing. Slow to get things done... VERY slow, but they get it done right when they do.

    5. Verizon: A vast conglomerate of colossal failures. I've dealt with them as, Verizon, UUnet & Worldcom at various points over the years. UUnet/Alternet was awesome back in the early/mid 90s, but otherwise these guys are just a fine expression of ILEC mentality. Audit your invoices... closely. Better yet, just avoid them!

    6. NTT. The best of this particular bunch to be honest. Network as good as L3s. The NOC staff are the best I've ever dealt with. BGP engineers are accessible and personable. Honest and accurate billing. Great sales team. I've been a happy customer of NTT since 2002.

    7. Qwest: See "Verizon Business" above. Swallowing USWest was the dumbest thing these guys ever did. The parasite completely devoured the host. They Borged my favorite Ethernet carrier, OnFiber and completely ruined what was a great company. Oh well.

    8. SAVVIS. Never dealt with them beyond price quotes.

    9. Sprint: See "Verizon Business" above. Yet another ILEC/telco mind-set company. Too big to really be customer-focussed. Billing is a nightmare. Takes forever to get anything installed, even longer to get anything shut down!

    Your Mileage May Vary. These are the opinions solely of the author and not my employer.
    --chuck goolsbee, Prineville, Oregon, USA
    Please note: I no longer work for digital.forest in Seattle, WA, as I left them in early 2010 to pursue an amazing opportunity at an amazing datacenter project elsewhere... I do not speak for digital.forest here. However I still know they provide the best colocation in the Pacific Northwest.

  3. #3
    I don't believe cogent is a tier1 as they have to buy traffic from verio, teir1 providers are settlement free.
    Jason Silverglate jason [.at.] fortressitx.com
    DedicatedNOW Managed Dedicated Servers / | 1-973-572-1070 support ext for 24/7 LIVE SUPPORT
    Celebrating 12 years in business! Privately Owned Datacenter metro NYC Dark Fiber Ring and more!

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2003
    Location
    Chicago
    Posts
    283
    It really depends on what you are going to be using the connection for. Level3 is really good. Tons of eyes connected. GC is also pretty good.

    There are lots of Tier2 providers that are excellent out there. I would recommend checking them out before you make your final decision.

    Other choices such as Mzima and Internap combine multiple Tier1 providers to give you the best of both worlds. Internap is definitely more expensive but they handle dealing with all the providers and the BGP. Here in Chicago Internap buys transit from eight providers: AT&T, Global Crossing, Level 3, NTT, Savvis, Sprint, Verizon Business (UUNet/MCI), and XO Communications as well as adding some local peering.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ashburn VA, San Diego CA
    Posts
    4,484
    A mix of several carriers would be "better" than any one carrier. The "tough" ones to deal with (verizon, att, ect) should be bought through a reseller to help save the headache and pocket book.
    Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | Fully Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
    Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    489
    I'm not sure if people deal with Cogent often but their staff is knowledgeable and any BGP related issues is fixed at the same time, there's no such thing as L3 techs working on business days, etc. They always addressed any problems within minutes when dealing with them, usually I just give them a call from the datacenter and it's a done deal.
    VEXXHOST, Inc.
    Secure & Reliable Hosting Solutions for Developers & Enterprises
    High Performance OpenStack® Public Cloud | Cloud Servers | Web Hosting

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    808
    I think the best would be a mix of all carriers!
    Jordan Jacobs | VP, Products|SingleHop| JJ @SingleHop.com
    Managed Dedicated Servers | Bare-Metal Servers | Cloud Services

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Dallas, TX
    Posts
    8,826
    Quote Originally Posted by scooby2 View Post
    Other choices such as Mzima and Internap combine multiple Tier1 providers to give you the best of both worlds. Internap is definitely more expensive but they handle dealing with all the providers and the BGP. Here in Chicago Internap buys transit from eight providers: AT&T, Global Crossing, Level 3, NTT, Savvis, Sprint, Verizon Business (UUNet/MCI), and XO Communications as well as adding some local peering.
    More kudus for Internap here. Their bandwidth speeds are very nice.

    -mike
    Mike G. - Limestone Networks - Account Specialist
    Cloud, Dedicated & Enterprise Hosting - Premium Network - Passionate Support
    DDoS Protection Available - Resell Dedicated Servers @LimestoneInc - 877.586.0555

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Phoenix
    Posts
    808
    I have never been a fan of InterNAP, its very hard to get ANYTHING done.
    Jordan Jacobs | VP, Products|SingleHop| JJ @SingleHop.com
    Managed Dedicated Servers | Bare-Metal Servers | Cloud Services

  10. #10
    Depends on where the traffic is going, i would never select an american carrier for europe, only TeliaSonera. For Asia i would select NTT and for the rest just pick a random tier 1 carrier.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,471
    Quote Originally Posted by jayglate View Post
    I don't believe cogent is a tier1 as they have to buy traffic from verio, teir1 providers are settlement free.
    According to this, they've just managed to do to so:
    http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ashburn VA, San Diego CA
    Posts
    4,484
    Quote Originally Posted by The Universes View Post
    According to this, they've just managed to do to so:
    http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml
    Confirmed -

    7 vl3492.mpd01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.106) 15.548 ms 15.283 ms 15.099 ms
    MPLS Label=1122 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
    8 gi6-0-0.core01.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.6.86) 14.814 ms 14.821 ms 14.976 ms
    9 aol.sjc03.atlas.cogentco.com (154.54.13.2) 15.569 ms 15.114 ms 14.822 ms
    10 bb1-sjg-p0-0.atdn.net (66.185.150.80) 38.987 ms 119.282 ms 200.334 ms
    MPLS Label=139 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
    11 bb1-ntc-p5-0.atdn.net (66.185.152.62) 15.473 ms 16.130 ms 16.053 ms
    MPLS Label=32 CoS=0 TTL=1 S=1
    12 pop1-ntc-p0-0.atdn.net (66.185.142.113) 15.852 ms 15.423 ms 15.732 ms
    13 cor1-nc1-p4-3.atdn.net (66.185.142.154) 15.445 ms 15.435 ms 15.565 ms
    14 172.17.66.170 (172.17.66.170) 15.631 ms 15.873 ms 16.331 ms
    Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | Fully Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
    Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by The Universes View Post
    According to this, they've just managed to do to so:
    http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml
    Who cares, they are still utter crap. Besides, there is no way to confirm they transit-free relationships just by looking at the traceroutes, they could still be paying.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,471
    Quote Originally Posted by ollebanan View Post
    Who cares, they are still utter crap. Besides, there is no way to confirm they transit-free relationships just by looking at the traceroutes, they could still be paying.
    How about actually backing up your claims instead of stating FUD?

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Montreal, Canada
    Posts
    489
    Quote Originally Posted by ollebanan View Post
    Who cares, they are still utter crap. Besides, there is no way to confirm they transit-free relationships just by looking at the traceroutes, they could still be paying.
    Cogent is pretty good for CDN as you can always push what you have however maybe their only issue is latency but they aren't what you exactly call a premium network. You get what you pay for but I wouldn't classify Cogent as "utter crap".
    VEXXHOST, Inc.
    Secure & Reliable Hosting Solutions for Developers & Enterprises
    High Performance OpenStack® Public Cloud | Cloud Servers | Web Hosting

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by The Universes View Post
    How about actually backing up your claims instead of stating FUD?
    How about backing up the claims they are a tier 1 network.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by vx|brian View Post
    Cogent is pretty good for CDN as you can always push what you have however maybe their only issue is latency but they aren't what you exactly call a premium network. You get what you pay for but I wouldn't classify Cogent as "utter crap".
    I would never use Cogent for anything, i prefer quality over quantity.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Posts
    1,471
    Quote Originally Posted by ollebanan View Post
    How about backing up the claims they are a tier 1 network.
    http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml
    As I previous cited Rensys' posting on Cogent's peering with ATDN, which made them transit free. Of course you can't be 100% certain they are not paying for transit on some small corner of their network, but Rensys isn't some guy making stuff up, its real metrics. Therefore, transit free = Tier 1 provider.

    My intent isn't to defend Cogent for anything they do, only to state what has happened.

  19. #19
    I was not going to respond to this thread but could not resist after the mention of 'Cogent' in that top 9 list.

    I'll provide another perspective here other than those already provided. Based on my consulting experience and working with businesses that use many a Software As A Service type applications, and having spent a great deal of non billable time chasing down customer issues with our applications in the past , Cogent is useful for the following scenarios:

    1. Web based applications that do not require reliability of connectivity (Free porn comes to mind)

    2. Low priority, internal, non customer facing site to site communications (Secondary backup sites)

    3. Data center operators that are targeting the web hosting services market segment where price is #1 consideration. These data center operators try to resolve connectivity complaints with "send us trace routes" which is impractical when dealing with web based customers or consumers.

    I have seen quite a few startup Software As A Service companies lose good paying corporate customers thanks to hosting their websites over Cogent transit. While the trace routes look decent (ICMP can be QOSed to look good), throughput is random.

    The day InterNap adds Cogent to their mix, that will be my bell weather for Cogent.

    I've seen Global Crossing and SAVVIS at the higher end customers and without much complaints. AT&T has a top notch global support team that is managed out of New York and run out of Singapore (at least that was the case a few years ago).

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by The Universes View Post
    http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml
    As I previous cited Rensys' posting on Cogent's peering with ATDN, which made them transit free. Of course you can't be 100% certain they are not paying for transit on some small corner of their network, but Rensys isn't some guy making stuff up, its real metrics. Therefore, transit free = Tier 1 provider.

    My intent isn't to defend Cogent for anything they do, only to state what has happened.
    I stand corrected, as it only happened a few days ago, I wasn't aware. Good for cogent!!, not that any uses AOL anymore LOL but good for them.
    Jason Silverglate jason [.at.] fortressitx.com
    DedicatedNOW Managed Dedicated Servers / | 1-973-572-1070 support ext for 24/7 LIVE SUPPORT
    Celebrating 12 years in business! Privately Owned Datacenter metro NYC Dark Fiber Ring and more!

  21. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The Universes View Post
    http://www.renesys.com/blog/2008/06/...nsitfree.shtml
    As I previous cited Rensys' posting on Cogent's peering with ATDN, which made them transit free. Of course you can't be 100% certain they are not paying for transit on some small corner of their network, but Rensys isn't some guy making stuff up, its real metrics. Therefore, transit free = Tier 1 provider.

    My intent isn't to defend Cogent for anything they do, only to state what has happened.
    Once again, if you were to actually listen to what i said, you can't prove a carrier is either tier 1 or tier 2 just by looking at the traceroutes/data flow, you need to be an insider in the teleco industry to view the NDA.

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ashburn VA, San Diego CA
    Posts
    4,484
    Quote Originally Posted by ollebanan View Post
    Once again, if you were to actually listen to what i said, you can't prove a carrier is either tier 1 or tier 2 just by looking at the traceroutes/data flow, you need to be an insider in the teleco industry to view the NDA.
    The article states they are *qualified* to be tier 1 and has proof to back it up. I think that's all you can state for any "tier 1", even your favorite, Telia. Using your argument, there's no proof that ANY network is tier 1, so your argument really holds no weight.
    Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | Fully Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
    Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by FastServ View Post
    Using your argument, there's no proof that ANY network is tier 1, so your argument really holds no weight.
    Ofcourse there is proof, but, I trust real evidence more then an article from Renesys.


    EDIT: But yes, you can make a good guess by looking into data flow, so sure, i can go with the fact that Cogent is somewhere in the borderland, not tier 1 or tier2.
    Last edited by ollebanan; 06-29-2008 at 07:25 AM.

  24. #24

    Cogent

    Cogent are not Tier-1. They have to buy certain routes from certain Tier-1 providers after they annoyed a well known Tier-1 provider a couple of years ago with their pricing model.

    For quality, go with NTT/VERIO or Level 3, for cheaper take Telia or Interroute and Cogent - they both can't go down at the same time can they?!

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Ashburn VA, San Diego CA
    Posts
    4,484
    Michael, who are they buying transit from today?
    Fast Serv Networks, LLC | AS29889 | Fully Managed Cloud, Streaming, Dedicated Servers, Colo by-the-U
    Ashburn VA + San Diego CA Datacenters

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Related Posts from theWHIR.com

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •