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  1. #1
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    Juniper J Series

    Hello,

    Can anyone give any real world numbers as to what each model of the Juniper-J series router is capable of? How much do these routers cost, and where is the best place to get them from?

    Thank you,
    Kyle

  2. #2
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    For basic IP forwarding the J4350 is good for about 1Gbps of raw forwarding. For internet traffic its good to about 500-600mbps.

    What are you looking to accomplish?
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  3. #3
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    We run the J6350 platform, and have for over a year (closer to 2).

    We've found they work well, but ours seem to have worked best when they are purely routers and we do the aggregation of VLANs on another platform (Cisco 3750s), as when we had all our gateways terminating on the 6350s, they were prone to falling over (but that could have been something simple that I was missing). They're not the cheapest routers in the world, but I like to think we've made the right choice, since we've gone to this set up, we've had 100% uptime (except for stuff like our sessions resetting at the peers router).

  4. #4
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    I am looking to get one DS3 and one Ethernet connection from two different providers and do full BGP routing between them. I will hand this off to a Cisco switch to do the internal routing.

    I was thinking a 6509 with SUP2 cars, but we are about to hit the routing table limit. I do not want to spend the money on the new SUP720 card for this small of a project. The 7206VXR with a NPE-G1/2 but those are also fairly expensive even on the black market.

    How much did you pay for your Junipers and where did you get them?

    Thank you,
    Kyle

  5. #5
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    Your best bet for pricing is to phone a few resellers on the Juniper site, as we're in the UK market what we paid won't really help you as you'll probably pay considerably less.

    Junipers aren't cheap routers, but we've been very happy

  6. #6
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    J Series are cheap as chips for what they do IMHO. I'd certainly not call them expensive by a long shot.
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  7. #7
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    We run J4350s. They might not be cheap (depending on what your definition of cheap is) but they are extremely good value for money. A J4350 is roughly equivalent in performance to a Cisco 7200 with NPE-G1, and the J4350 is around half the price. A J6350 is roughly equivalent in performance to a Cisco 7200 with NPE-G2 and the J6350 is 50-70% cheaper.

    And the J4350 and J6350 comes with enough RAM to take several full BGP tables, a default OS image that supports almost every feature available, and 4 x GigE interfaces. And not to mention the fact that JunOS is much, much nicer to work with.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by alexjcampbell View Post
    And the J4350 and J6350 comes with enough RAM to take several full BGP tables
    The RAM can hold the tables, but can the forwarding hardware store that many forwarding entries? In Juniper's DRAM document:

    http://www.juniper.net/solutions/lit...ure/210009.pdf

    ...it looks as though there is a maximum of 200,000 forwarding entries?

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zitibake View Post
    The RAM can hold the tables, but can the forwarding hardware store that many forwarding entries? In Juniper's DRAM document:

    http://www.juniper.net/solutions/lit...ure/210009.pdf

    ...it looks as though there is a maximum of 200,000 forwarding entries?
    I'm guessing you'd have to filter/aggregate if that's the case.
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  10. #10
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    Our junipers are holding full tables at the moment without issues and without aggregation, that said one of them seems a little unsettled at the moment - hoping a JunOS upgrade later this week will sort that though.

    And, isn't that dram file published before the "new" J-Series came out?
    Last edited by relichost; 05-11-2008 at 06:08 PM.

  11. #11
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    I have been wondering about this. Someone who can confirm either way?
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  12. #12
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    We have two J4350s with 1GB RAM that take several full tables each without any issues at all. The PDF referenced above is not correct.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexjcampbell View Post
    We have two J4350s with 1GB RAM that take several full tables each without any issues at all. The PDF referenced above is not correct.
    Thanks.

    Do you know of a reference that indicates a max on this?
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  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Host3000 View Post
    Thanks.

    Do you know of a reference that indicates a max on this?
    No, although this report has some information on J4350 performance with 600,000 routes in the FIB:
    http://www.iometrix.com/site/pdfs/CA...iper-J4350.pdf

    I don't think there is any hard-coded prefix limit on the modern J-Series (2320, 2350, 4350, 6350). They have very, very fast processors and a lot of RAM. As I mentioned before, we have J4350s with 1GB taking several full tables extremely comfortably:

    [email protected]> show bgp summary
    Groups: 3 Peers: 3 Down peers: 0
    Table Tot Paths Act Paths Suppressed History Damp State Pending
    inet.0 624757 345952 0 0 0 0
    Peer AS InPkt OutPkt OutQ Flaps Last Up/Dwn State|#Active/Received/Damped...
    x.x.x.2 XXXXX 510131 706090 0 0 2w1d8h 2365/120303/0 0/0/0
    y.y.y.57 YYYYY 605084 48746 0 0 2w1d8h 119104/253380/0 0/0/0
    z.z.z.226 ZZZZZ 1748771 48746 0 0 2w1d8h 224483/251074/0 0/0/0

    [email protected]> show chassis routing-engine
    Routing Engine status:
    Temperature 26 degrees C / 78 degrees F
    CPU temperature 44 degrees C / 111 degrees F
    DRAM 1024 MB
    Memory utilization 72 percent
    CPU utilization:
    User 0 percent
    Real-time threads 11 percent
    Kernel 7 percent
    Idle 82 percent
    Model RE-J4350-2540
    Serial ID XXXXX
    Start time 2008-04-27 18:01:03 EST
    Uptime 15 days, 8 hours, 21 minutes, 35 seconds
    Load averages: 1 minute 5 minute 15 minute
    0.13 0.17 0.12

  15. #15
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    The J-Series is all software, it's basically a Celeron/P4 PC running JunOS - There is no separate TCAM for the FIB, so it's held in the DRAM along with the RIB AFAIK, so the amount of DRAM is your limit on both FIB and RIB.
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  16. #16
    this report has some information on J4350 performance with 600,000 routes in the FIB:
    The paper mentions "600,000 BGP routes", which says nothing about how many forwarding entries it has. You could have 600,000 different default routes, and only one active forwarding entry.

    [email protected]> show bgp summary
    Table Tot Paths Act Paths Suppressed History Damp State Pending
    inet.0 624757 345952 0 0 0 0
    Thanks, that's helpful: it looks like you've got 345952 active BGP paths. If you were capped at 200,000 active forwarding entries, I think you'd notice.

    Quote Originally Posted by KDAWebServices View Post
    The J-Series is all software, it's basically a Celeron/P4 PC running JunOS - There is no separate TCAM for the FIB, so it's held in the DRAM along with the RIB AFAIK, so the amount of DRAM is your limit on both FIB and RIB.
    That makes sense, given the 300kpps forwarding rate.

    My SE opened a JTAC case to ask about the 200,000 number, and got the reply:
    It has to do with the number of routes forwarded due to the hardware
    ...which is very odd given what KDAWebServices reported above (that all forwarding entries kept in software).

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zitibake View Post
    ...which is very odd given what KDAWebServices reported above (that all forwarding entries kept in software).
    "It has to do with the number of routes forwarded due to the hardware" is just plain wrong.

    If you take a J-series apart you certainly won't find anything in there that would be forwarding packets in hardware. Just a basic PC motherboard, P4 CPU and some Broadcom GigE NICs.

  18. #18
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    So does each of the J-Series have a different speed processor? How much is each one rated to handle?

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by KyleLC23 View Post
    So does each of the J-Series have a different speed processor? How much is each one rated to handle?
    The CPU speed and the form factor are pretty much the only differences across the J models.

    J6350
    - large packets: 2gbps +
    - IMIX packets: 1gbps

    J4350
    - large packets: 1gbps+
    - IMIX packets: 600mbps

    J2350
    - large packets: 750mbps+
    - IMIX packets: 500mbps

    J2320
    - large packets: 600mbps+
    - IMIX packets: 400mbps

    From the Juniper datasheet (http://www.juniper.net/products/jser...eet/100206.pdf).

  20. #20
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    I did notice one thing about BGP and this router:

    Licenses are required to operate the J-Flow Accounting and
    Advanced BGP features on Juniper Networks J-series routers. To
    acquire licenses, order JX-JFlow-ADV-LTU (for J-Flow Accounting) or JX-BGP-ADV-LTU (for Advanced BGP). Each license is good for one chassis.

    It has a star next to BGP Router Reflector* saying you must have this JX-BGP-ADV-LTU license in order to use this feature. Does anyone know if this is needed and what exactly it does?

  21. #21
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    Yes, you need to purchase additional licenses for J-Flow and BGP Router Reflector. The licenses simply unlock the respective functionality.

    "Advanced BGP" just means BGP Router Reflector.

  22. #22
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    you do not need a license to use the router as a route reflector client... only as a reflector itself.
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  23. #23
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    Can you explain or provide a link to what a reflector and J-Flow does?

  24. #24
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    jFlow is Juniper's version of netFlow / sFlow. A route reflector is a BGP routing feature that basically allows a centralized router to act as a reflector for routes learned by other routers. For example, lets say you have your two redundant Juniper J BGP speakin routers and you are running iBGP internally. You also have 10 distrubtion switches that are iBGP speaking. Without a route reflector, you would need to have each BGP speaking device have a session with all other BGP speaking devices on the network (a full mesh). If you were to configure your J routers as route reflectors, you only need to have your distribution switches have BGP peering sessions with the router reflectors, and they are still able to learn the routes held be all your other distribution switches. This cuts down on administrative maintenance quite a bit, and allows for easier network scaling. Imagine if you had 50 distribution switches, you would end up with 50 some odd BGP sessions per device. Every time you added a new switch, you would have to configure a new BGP session on each existing switch. Not a good thing ...
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