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Thread: Perl

  1. #1
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    Perl

    Where is the perl board
    IMHO ASP and PHP are perl wanna-bes
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  2. #2
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    Re: Perl

    Originally posted by MaB
    Where is the perl board
    IMHO ASP and PHP are perl wanna-bes
    Silly thing to say about wannabes...but if we are going to have a php board, guess it should be in the cards to have a perl board...then if we have a perl board, we might want to think about a python board...I think this opens up an unnecessary can of worms.

  3. #3
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    So why should PHP be treated so special. Perl was around way before php and is much better for sys-admining - imho

    Python isnt a common language (atleast not as common as perl or php) - PHP doesnt really help run businesses, i dont think you can write a php script and run it from the command line to help you do many jobs at once (or can you?) but i've done this countless times in perl that have saved me hours of work..
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  4. #4
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    pS - to any on-lookers, no, neither of us have anything better to do
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    So, it's a slow morning...lol

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    Wouldn't a programming forum with subsections like php, .net, perl, .net etc. be better than just php ?

  7. #7
    Originally posted by MaB
    So why should PHP be treated so special. Perl was around way before php and is much better for sys-admining - imho
    Maybe because the forum moderators IMHO is that PHP is a more needed subject and warrants more of a need for a forum???

  8. #8
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    I can give you several reasons why PHP is not even close to a Perl clone. Besides that PHP is much younger and yet just as powerful (if not MORE) then Perl, so that has to say something.

    Everyone has opinions, however, PHP is still one of the fastest growing server-side languages there are, and is on Perl's heels as number 1 (though, as I said in another post, it's not there yet).

    Furthermore, I agree with Chaps, I see very little interest in Perl related questions on this board, whereas I see many questions regarding PHP.
    A well-reasoned assumption is very close to fact.
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  9. #9
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    Talking

    never said clone, said wannabe

    and PHP is not as useful in running a server as perl is... when was teh last time you used/wrote a php script to help you automate functions from the command line?
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  10. #10
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    Actually we are working on a open-source control panel that does just that. Your comparing SuEXEC or SUDO + Perl against PHP, that is kind of unfair considering SuEXEC works just find with PHP or Perl.

    Command line functions are just command line functions, are you trying to say it's harder to use PHP's exec() command then it is to use Perl's equivelent?
    A well-reasoned assumption is very close to fact.
    - Adorno

  11. #11
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    And as someone pointed out in another thread, php has hardly nothing to do with hosting (except mabey some CPs might use that as a back end, but then others use perl and html as well)... perl has alot more to do with hosting than php

    Im not anti php, just pro-perl I still think there should be a programming board where both php and perl can live together in peace. (The end)
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  12. #12
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    Originally posted by comphosting
    Actually we are working on a open-source control panel that does just that. Your comparing SuEXEC or SUDO + Perl against PHP, that is kind of unfair considering SuEXEC works just find with PHP or Perl.

    Command line functions are just command line functions, are you trying to say it's harder to use PHP's exec() command then it is to use Perl's equivelent?
    Your making a control panel in php, so there are many cps in perl -in fact, there are more in perl and html. Where is the perl and hmtl forum. I can point you to hundreds of command line perl scripts that help hosting and how it has helped me and others, im not saying you cant do that in php but im saying people dont (in largen umbers)... php does not have that much to do with a hosting board atleast not as much as perl
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  13. #13
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    Again I disagree. Your making an assumption on an entire industry just because scripts in Perl are available now. Perl has been around longer then PHP so obviously there are going to be more programs available. Not to mention there are at least 4 cps I can think of written in PHP (though none fully stable). WebCP being the best example I can think of, which is actually coming along quite well.
    A well-reasoned assumption is very close to fact.
    - Adorno

  14. #14
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    either way, why should a language thats not even mainstream in the hosting biz be given a forum while a lanaguage/languages that are already in wide use in the hosting biz are not given one?

    anyway, this is getting a little childish headsurfer - it would make people happy if you just created a programming section and put all these languages under it... (mabey you can get a link from perl.com too )

    over and out
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  15. #15
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    PPS: Im sure im not the only one posting in this forum to rack up my post count (yes, it's sad)... raise your hand if you really care about adding a php forum and not a perl or other language forum...technical and security forum will remain the place for perl questions, no loss...

    (+1 to the post count)
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  16. #16
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    Originally posted by comphosting
    I can give you several reasons why PHP is not even close to a Perl clone. Besides that PHP is much younger and yet just as powerful (if not MORE) then Perl, so that has to say something.


    Read about how PHP came to be and you will see that it was created from C and PERL constructs and syntax (And PERL was created from C )

    Yes PHP is getting good -> But u be mad to system admin with it IMHO

    Everyone has opinions, however, PHP is still one of the fastest growing server-side languages there are, and is on Perl's heels as number 1 (though, as I said in another post, it's not there yet).
    Very true but PERL 6 not out yet -> Expect a new Leader

    Furthermore, I agree with Chaps, I see very little interest in Perl related questions on this board, whereas I see many questions regarding PHP.
    Noticed that but PERL not a newbie language in any way. I learnt PERL first which when I started with PHP, PHP seamed easy LOL

    ( POINT -> First time i see PERL code may as well have been GERMAN lol )
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  17. #17
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    I think the PHP forums is more-or-less a political thing. They wanted a link on the high traffic php.net and making a PHP forum is a good way to make that viable.

    That being said, I find PHP a much easier langauge than Perl--for "simple" (aka normal) web applications I use PHP. For complicated things (ie web robots or complicated parsers) I use perl.

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  18. #18
    What I want to know is where the Python board is!
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  19. #19
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    perl is a lot easier to program, php is ok for the web

  20. #20
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    Seems to be going round and round in circles this thread.

    My 2 cents worth.

    WHT users have been an amazing resourse getting my hosting company off the ground. The amount of times you guys have saved my ass is staggering.

    Very glad to see a PHP forum. I am designing quite a few back ends for customer sites using PHP and I as they get a little more complex I think this forum is needed.

    As for Perl and other languages, Totally agree....I think they should have that here also. Although I don't do alot in perl, I usually have questions as to how to do something, but there are no forums here that really relate to it, so I usually work it out elsewhere. I presume alot of others do the same and thus the lack of perl questions, plus the fact that ppl scripting in perl usually have half a clue. (sorry if that offends anyone)

    Anyway, thats my 2 cents, plus I need to get my post count up also.

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  21. #21
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    This shouldn't even be a topic here but since it is ill throw in my two cents. I like Perl but find PHP is much faster to code and you don't have to go the extra mile just to get a simple little application like a FormMail script. Perl that script could be 30 lines whereas PHP could do it in about 10. The only time I would consider using Perl is for shell scripting or maybe socket programming but with how rapidly PHP is growing it seems as though its going to blow Perl out of the water. It has already caught up to Perl/TK with PHP/GTK and that is a huge step.

    I don't know, I can't say I prefer one over the other because they both have their ups and downs.

  22. #22
    perl is dieing. Nothing personal again perl, I used to use it alot and it was the best programming language back then. It revolutionized how programming was done... but now-a-days, PHP is taking over. PHP is faster... easier to learn and has a lil brother called mysql. Sure, C/Perl is still good for some stuff, but I think that WHT realizes that PHP is discussed here about 20 times more often than perl is... still though, I agree, this forum should be entitled "Programming Languages" or something... but whatever.

  23. #23
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    Originally posted by BattleForums
    perl is dieing. Nothing personal again perl, I used to use it alot and it was the best programming language back then. It revolutionized how programming was done... but now-a-days, PHP is taking over. PHP is faster... easier to learn and has a lil brother called mysql. Sure, C/Perl is still good for some stuff, but I think that WHT realizes that PHP is discussed here about 20 times more often than perl is... still though, I agree, this forum should be entitled "Programming Languages" or something... but whatever.
    I question your whole post when i read the first statement about perl dieing.... thats just a bit of an un-educated statement.

    PS - perl also has a "little brother" called mysql
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  24. #24
    Originally posted by MaB


    I question your whole post when i read the first statement about perl dieing.... thats just a bit of an un-educated statement.

    PS - perl also has a "little brother" called mysql

    Perl never really cared about mysql and they never supported it the way that PHP did. That's why mysql works so much better with PHP in most cases and frankly, that is probably the main reason why PHP is bigger than perl is today. I'm not gonna argue with you, but I will debate you. You obviously think that perl is better, that's your opinion and I respect that. However, my opinion is different from yours, so we disagree. Now, some facts/opinions for you. PHP is growing much faster than PHP is (this is a fact). PHP is also way more user friendly to newbies (another fact). For example, you don't need to set permissions on PHP scripts and you don't need a cgi-bin (for perl used in cgi scripts). Also, you don't have to worry about stuff like sendmail & perl paths. Also, like I said above, PHP is alot easier for newbies to code. This isn't a fact, but it is a strong opinion and i'm sure many will agree.

    Now, if you want to present your case in a mature matter and show me some FACTS about why perl is better then I encourage you to. Once again, I realize perl is still better at some things than PHP is, but as far as web based scripts are concerned and more specifically, web hosting scripts, PHP is without a doubt used more than perl. That is why WHT made this a PHP only forum. Not only that, but i'm sure that Robert doesn't want WHT to turn into a programming forum. I don't think this is so much a "General PHP discussion board" as it is a "Web Hosting PHP Discussion Board". He most likely made it because he was tired of all the PHP posts being posted in other forums.

    Oh, by the way... another fact to prove my point. I did a few searches on WHT. Here are the results:

    ---------- Search Only Titles (ALL FORUMS)--------

    "PHP" = Threads Found 854
    "MySQL" = Threads Found 638
    "Perl" = Threads Found 159
    "CGI" = Threads Found 182


    -------- Search Entire Posts (ALL FORUMS)--------

    "PHP" = Threads Found 8918
    "MySQL" = Threads Found 9032
    "Perl" = Threads Found 5220
    "CGI" = Threads Found 5282


    I beleive these statistics speak for themselves. Also keep in mind, PHP is still very new and perl has been around much longer. If it continues this, it will CONTINUE dying. And also, about my so called "un-educated statement". I think you are the one who is un-educated if you honestly think that. Here, like me copy something from Websters Dictionary for you:

    to address my so called "un-educated statement" about perl dying. Here you go:

    dying

    To undergo a sudden, sharp decline in population: Rabbits were dying off in that county.


    Sorry to tell you, but many people are switching to PHP every day and leaving perl. Therefore, it is dieing. Sure, it may not be "sudden", but rather, more of a slow, painful death. You can be in denial all you want, but the numbers speak for themselves and like I mentioned above, if it continues this path (which it will) then perl will be dead as far as the web goes and it will probably only be used on speciality scripts.. This is an EDUCATED guess, but if you have anything to prove my guess wrong, then go ahead.

    Later,
    - BattleForums
    Last edited by BattleForums; 08-21-2002 at 06:46 PM.

  25. #25
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    Show me proof perl is dieing? I dont argue that PHP is growing VERY fast, but you cant show me proof is dieing which is an un-educated statement.

    The fact that there are more php threads means there are more newbies (or advanced programmers) with questions about PHP (which supporst its growing fast - i dont argue with that) but doesnt make it better.

    And that junk about perl not going along with MySQL? whats that based on? SimpleCP is all perl + mysql. So is my billing software and my client management software.

    We worry about sendmail paths and such because we have the power to do what we need.

    And what you said about php being useful in web hosting scripts, is just BS. For web based ones, you may have a point but command line and batch jobs that make our lives easier? no way. I can think of 100's of times ive used perl shell scripts to save me hours of time

    Your statement about perl dieing is simply wrong. Your comment about php growing fast is correct i beleive.

    Where are your facts? Youve only provided the number of threads on each topic which just shows people need more help with PHP...
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  26. #26
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    I think the gap between Perl & PHP is becoming less and less with each new version, PHP is OK, but I think because I learned Perl first its always the language I will go to when I need something done, its just a perl

  27. #27
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    PS - I would put money on the fact that perl will be around for years and years and years to come and will not die

    And once again, I dont doubt that PHP is growing, but that doesnt mean perl is dieing. PHP may be an easier language for newbies (who shouldnt be programming in the first place j/k )

    AND as a website interface language, php may be easier, but perl is still the more all-around powerful language
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  28. #28
    Originally posted by MaB
    Show me proof perl is dieing? I dont argue that PHP is growing VERY fast, but you cant show me proof is dieing which is an un-educated statement.

    The fact that there are more php threads means there are more newbies (or advanced programmers) with questions about PHP (which supporst its growing fast - i dont argue with that) but doesnt make it better.

    And that junk about perl not going along with MySQL? whats that based on? SimpleCP is all perl + mysql. So is my billing software and my client management software.

    We worry about sendmail paths and such because we have the power to do what we need.

    And what you said about php being useful in web hosting scripts, is just BS. For web based ones, you may have a point but command line and batch jobs that make our lives easier? no way. I can think of 100's of times ive used perl shell scripts to save me hours of time

    Your statement about perl dieing is simply wrong. Your comment about php growing fast is correct i beleive.

    Where are your facts? Youve only provided the number of threads on each topic which just shows people need more help with PHP...
    Please read the quote again:

    dying

    To undergo a sudden, sharp decline in population: Rabbits were dying off in that county.


    Is perl not declining in population? I personally think that perl is loosing more programmers than it is gaining. Also, less scripts are being created in perl... it keeps dropping every month. Each time new scripts are added @ hotscripts.com, there is always less and less perl scripts each update. PHP is releasing newer versions faster than perl is and once again, I don't think perl 6.0 is going to change the situation much, but then again, I don't have all the facts about perl 6 yet (I don't follow it too much). Either way, our debate probably won't be answered for another ten years, or maybe sooner if perl doesn't do something quick.

    BattleForums

  29. #29
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    I think you guys need to get out there and write a few programs in whatever language you prefer, as you seem to have way to much time on your hands........

    MaB, Don't know why your getting so upset, other than the "Perl is dying" comment, most people are agreeing with you that Perl has its place and is very useful, and feel there should be some form of discussion as it would help web hosts do their day to day business.

    I am not real big on Perl myself, but I would be interested in these scripts you have written to save yourself hours and hours of time....can you give me some examples of these or point me in some directions to learn a little more about it?

    (think thats the other reason PHP is growing faster...more support and is easier to learn)

    Grant

  30. #30
    Originally posted by MaB
    but perl is still the more all-around powerful language
    For how long? I noticed you used the word "still". Well, good for perl, but we aren't talking about NOW, i'm talking about the future. Perl has only had, what, an 7 year head start?. Give PHP another 7 years and then we'll see.

  31. #31
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    Perl may not be gaining as many as php but perl is certainly not loosing.

    All your hotscripts and such again, are web based programs.

    This is a hosting forum. How many php shell scripts have you written to save you hours of work? PHP maymake wbesite development easier, but when running a hosting business perl is king, as well as anyone who needs the ultimate power - they will choose perl...

    Use raq2,raq3,raq4? Perl.
    Use OpenSRS? Perl.
    Use countless billing softwares and control panels? perl

    This is a web hosting forum not a web development forum.
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  32. #32
    Originally posted by WebWorx
    I think you guys need to get out there and write a few programs in whatever language you prefer, as you seem to have way to much time on your hands........

    MaB, Don't know why your getting so upset, other than the "Perl is dying" comment, most people are agreeing with you that Perl has its place and is very useful, and feel there should be some form of discussion as it would help web hosts do their day to day business.

    I am not real big on Perl myself, but I would be interested in these scripts you have written to save yourself hours and hours of time....can you give me some examples of these or point me in some directions to learn a little more about it?

    (think thats the other reason PHP is growing faster...more support and is easier to learn)

    Grant
    I also agree'd that this forum should be expanded to cover perl. The reason he is upset is because he can't accept the fact that PHP is growing much faster than perl is (and ever was!).

  33. #33
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    Ps dont say perl6 wont help at all and then go right ahead and say you dont know much about perl6...
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  34. #34
    Originally posted by MaB
    Ps dont say perl6 wont help at all and then go right ahead and say you dont know much about perl6...
    I'm just basing my opinion on past experiences with hyped up perl releases. If you think perl 6 will change everything so much, then how about you tell me why?

  35. #35
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    Originally posted by BattleForums


    For how long? I noticed you used the word "still". Well, good for perl, but we aren't talking about NOW, i'm talking about the future. Perl has only had, what, an 7 year head start?. Give PHP another 7 years and then we'll see.
    PHP was prototyped using Perl - it is based on perl and developed in C and shares other things with perl. PHP is riding on the tails of perl...
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  36. #36
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    Originally posted by WebWorx
    but I would be interested in these scripts you have written to save yourself hours and hours of time....can you give me some examples of these
    Grant
    I converted my whole hosting biz from a few cobalt raqs onto my own CP on a white box, i saved hours with scripts that automatically saved all the info from config files and dbs and converted it into my CPs format.

    I had to change 100's of ips in /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts, /etc/proftpd.conf and /etc/httpd/conf/httpd.conf - all done with a simple script

    I had to completely rewrite my /etc/mail/virtusertable and aliases just from cobalts db - and even visa versa

    and there are many more
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  37. #37
    Originally posted by MaB


    PHP was prototyped using Perl - it is based on perl and developed in C and shares other things with perl. PHP is riding on the tails of perl...
    Yet PHP is doing things that perl never could... so they must be doing something right. Besides, you can claim that anything is ripped off, most languages are very similiar to one another. PHP is also different in how is handles data, as it is server-side.

  38. #38
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    eeek - every stop posting for 4 minutes and let me read the whole 2nd page which passed me by
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  39. #39
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    Originally posted by BattleForums


    I also agree'd that this forum should be expanded to cover perl. The reason he is upset is because he can't accept the fact that PHP is growing much faster than perl is (and ever was!).

    No, im upset because your saying i said stuff that I didnt say. If you read i AGREE that PHP is growing faster, but im upset because you cant see that perl isnt dieing and that php is a more powerful language for sysadmins and hosting companies (not just web development)
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  40. #40

    oh

    ok then. I won't bring up XML yet then

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