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Thread: SEO scammers
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04-05-2008, 10:34 AM #26WHT Addict
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Surprise!! It already is.
The differentiation point will be the broader marketing scope, and "old school" SEOs will die off.
Too many "broader reaching skills" clowns out there that simply can not rank. What is the term? Jack of all trades, master of none?
Great, so they made the clients site look nicer, and maybe helped useability a little. If they cant rank and drive traffic, the site is going to die a slow death no matter if is the best in its class ro the worst. It has always been that way and I do not see that changing anytime soon.
I realize that many (not all obviously) of the "broader reaching skills" guys have to tout that line to get any business at all, but real SEO's do not seem to have any problems getting and keeping clients.
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04-05-2008, 10:44 AM #27Retired Moderator
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Surprise!! It already is.
Too many "broader reaching skills" clowns out there that simply can not rank.
But the SEO technician who is good at what he does and has no bearing on broader skills will not survive.
I realize all the "broader reaching skills" guys have to tout that line to get any business at all, but real SEO's do not seem to have any problems getting and keeping clients.
Four years ago I said the same thing about slice-n-dice coders. I told them it doesn't matter if you buy into the fact that Web standards are gaining importance and semantic validity is important. The industry will move forward with or without you, regardless of whether you believe you need to evolve or not. Sure enough...!
I'll say the same thing here. It doesn't really matter what any one says - customers will dictate what's most important, and I'm saying what's most important is ROI, something to which SEO-only experts do not talk. Evolve or die. In five year it will all be a moot point. SEO by themselves will be a dying breed, and SEO/marketing specialists will rule. You can argue that point till the end of time, but what will be will be. That's my prediction.Last edited by the_pm; 04-05-2008 at 10:48 AM.
Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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04-05-2008, 10:56 AM #28WHT Addict
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04-05-2008, 11:38 AM #29Retired Moderator
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The difference is SEOs were asked to adapt to their technical environment. Here we're talking about adapting to the needs of customers. Does the model keep on ticking when customers increasingly demand ROI? Does the model still work when SEO experts are marketing both SEO and broader marketing skills? Only time will tell. I say customer demand, driven both by increased customer savviness and the establishment of need in the minds of customers by the hybrid SEO/marketers will result in the need for evolution of the industry as a whole.
Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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04-05-2008, 11:43 AM #30Aspiring Evangelist
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Sure the best "SEO"s have lots more skills than just getting pages to rank for keywords, the first step is to be sure that the ranking keywords chosen will drive qualified traffic, then they need to get the potential customers to click on those high rankings to visit the site and IMO the structuring of the page title, descriptions and page content all come into that as a part of the on page optimization.
The SEO should have the knowledge to know for instance that the shopping cart used to build the site is killing on page optimization, or that the navigation system is going to create problems for visitors, etc, but when it comes time to recreate the menu system or the look of the page, its not necessary that he be a web designer, or a wordsmith who can create magic words that sell, or be able to whip up a new content management system at the drop of the hat, but he should at this point enter into the role of a consultant, telling his client what needs done, and perhaps recommend someone to do it, but he does not (should not IMO) need to be a jack of all trades.
If you want someone who can fix your car you go to a garage, but if you want new upholstery or new paint you go to a specialist. It should be the same in SEO.
If you are looking for a one stop shop, then look for someone who bills himself as an internet marketer and hope he has all the necessary skills that you need, but they are few and far between.
But bottom line, no SEO can turn the ROI of a site that offers inferior goods or high prices around, that is the sole purview of the site owner and for that reason should not be included in SEO.
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04-05-2008, 11:57 AM #31Retired Moderator
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its not necessary that he be a web designer, or a wordsmith who can create magic words that sell, or be able to whip up a new content management system at the drop of the hat, but he should at this point enter into the role of a consultant, telling his client what needs done, and perhaps recommend someone to do it
That's exactly my point (bold text added for emphasis in the quote above). If you believe your job is done because you made a site appear high in search engines, you're going to be replaced by someone who believes the job is done when that high placement actually leads to something beneficial to the customer. The consultants who are able to see the big picture and develop strategies so customers can take advantage of their rankings are the ones who will be seen as valuable, necessary and successful.
The ones who say "well, I got you good rankings - the fact that you're business didn't improve isn't my problem" are going to be replaced by the ones who make business improvement their problem. Simple as that.Studio1337___̴ı̴̴̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡ ̡͌l̡*̡̡ ̴̡ı̴̴̡ ̡̡͡|̲̲̲͡͡͡ ̲▫̲͡ ̲̲̲͡͡π̲̲͡͡ ̲̲͡▫̲̲͡͡ ̲|̡̡̡ ̡ ̴̡ı̴̡̡ ̡͌l̡̡̡̡.__Web Design
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04-07-2008, 09:27 AM #32Newbie
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04-07-2008, 04:25 PM #33Business Consultant Manager
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Successful SEO people/companies know its all about ROI. A customer will not care if they are on the first page on Google, if its not bringing in any money.
If you can get pages popular, people interested in your content/products, then get them to purchase... you've done your job.
I have a perfect example...
I am doing SEO work for a pet store in my local city. They went from not being listed on Google to having over 8,000 pages (mind you I created them an on-line store), plus being on the first page on Google for 25 keywords, where 6 of them are #1, or #2. But its not bringing in a lot of cash for them at the moment. Think they are jumping up and down, since they have #1 keywords? They want money. They want a return on their investment. Which eventually will pick up, and they will be happy.█ www.JGRoboMarketing.com / "Automate. Grow. Repeat"
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04-07-2008, 06:05 PM #34Web Hosting Master
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04-07-2008, 07:31 PM #35Junior Guru Wannabe
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This is a huge problem with so many website owners and SEOs, #1 does not = money.. It can help, but it's not the end of the road..
What if you rank #1 for a phrase that almost no one searches for?? Or a phrase that isn't keyed for selling your product??
Add to that the problem of actually converting that traffic in to customers.. How many clicks does it take to find and buy a product on the website?? 1? 5? 20?
Is the call to action on your sales page obvious and compelling?? Or is it a tiny little button??
SEO is one part of the overall marketing plan for any online website..Steve
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