Web Hosting Talk : Web Hosting Main Forums : SEO / SEM Discussions : web site traffic, PR and Google positions

[3DProf4online]

Does traffic increase have positive impact on web site positions in Google and PR? What are your opinions about this?

[incrediblehelp]

Not at all. Sure they monitor the clicks as much as we would on our own websites.

[Zafar Ahmed]

Nopes not with Google. However, Yahoo, Lycos and AltaVista seems to be utilizing it to some level, but its role in their algorithms is not important.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Zafar Ahmed

However, Yahoo, Lycos and AltaVista seems to be utilizing it to some level, but its role in their algorithms is not important.

Then why do you say here that Click Popularity is important to Yahoo?

Originally Posted by Zafar Ahmed

Click Popularity:
This must be something you have never heard of. But, this is a part of Yahoo’s algorithm. The more clicks your site gets on Yahoo Search Page, the more changes of your website getting on TOP 10. Yes, this is not part of Google’s algorithm and probably something new to you.

[Zafar Ahmed]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Then why do you say here that Click Popularity is important to Yahoo?

The reason for posting the "click popularity" point in the last was to let people know that "click popularity" existed with yahoo or perhaps still exist.

Are you saying there was no such thing as "click popularity"?, this may not be a part of Yahoo algorithm now but there surely was "click popularity" algo in few search engines including Yahoo.

[AHFBWEB]

You said it does exist, now you say your article was writtin for the past and you do not know if it is still around or not?

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by Zafar Ahmed

Are you saying there was no such thing as "click popularity"?, this may not be a part of Yahoo algorithm now but there surely was "click popularity" algo in few search engines including Yahoo.

Well I don’t think anyone can say for sure, only employees of SE's can say for sur.. That is why I am shocked that said it did count at one time. As far as I can tell it doesn’t. I see some of my personal websites easily out-rank websites that I know get more traffic than me on all the major engines.

[AHFBWEB]

If memory serves click/clickback popularity was a part of the directory listings and never part of the serach results. Of course this goes back a few years so what I remember and reality may not match...I never claimed to be a guru but I am starting to feel like one

[nuclei]

AHFB: at least most of what you say, that I have seen, holds water or at least is not utter conjecture.

[1boss1]

Originally Posted by AHFB HTML

If memory serves click/clickback popularity was a part of the directory listings and never part of the serach results.

Google does actually have a patent regarding the utilization of click data as a signal for scoring web documents. I have not seen any evidence to suggest this signal is being used, or if so it's currently "wound down" so the importance of this signal is minimal.

We have done some tests with a good number of participants in attempt to promote one site and demote another by click activity, but couldn't obtain any conclusive evidence. The test simply put was, we ranked 2 sites in the top 10 for a low volume/low competition keyphrase where the results we quite stable. The participant queried the term, clicked on site A and clicked back to the SERP's within 10-15 seconds then clicked site B and browsed it for at least 5 minutes. This simulated site A not being relevant to the query and site B was.

The thing is Google lodges a lot of "curve ball" patents where the patent idea is never intended for use. Also they lodge a lot that are crystal ball ideas, where they see a technology "may" be used in the future. This is also a step to prevent competition securing rights to the idea.

But i have no doubt click data will become a more important signal in the future, and the reason is it's harder to "game" on a large scale unlike other factors such as backlinks and on-page attributes.

[incrediblehelp]

Originally Posted by 1boss1

But i have no doubt click data will become a more important signal in the future, and the reason is it's harder to "game" on a large scale unlike other factors such as backlinks and on-page attributes.

Of course it will as personalized search grows.

[nuclei]

Originally Posted by incrediblehelp

Of course it will as personalized search grows.

someone has their thinking cap on.

I agree that as we see personalized search progress, we may see some new factors which just would not make sense in the general organics come into play.

[nuclei]

Originally Posted by 1boss1

The participant queried the term, clicked on site A and clicked back to the SERP's within 10-15 seconds then clicked site B and browsed it for at least 5 minutes. This simulated site A not being relevant to the query and site B was.

The problem there is that google has no way of knowing how long a person sites on my page. They may never return to google for that phrase, instead opting to try their luck at msn or yahoo, or maybe they saw an ad on the first site they clicked that was what they wanted. That doesn't show relevancy, unless they have g analytics on everyones websites, which they are not even close to yet.

Originally Posted by 1boss1

The thing is Google lodges a lot of "curve ball" patents where the patent idea is never intended for use. Also they lodge a lot that are crystal ball ideas, where they see a technology "may" be used in the future. This is also a step to prevent competition securing rights to the idea.

Therein lies the rub. While patent watching can lead to some new theories, until they are proven (or disproven), they are simply theories and should never be put out as if they were fact where newbs might be mislead.

[1boss1]

Originally Posted by nuclei

The problem there is that google has no way of knowing how long a person sites on my page.

So nobody visits your page using the Google Toolbar, which is shipped pre-installed on Dell PC's?. It was estimated over 100 Million in 2006, and we are now in 2008. That's a pretty good data set right there without taking in to account pages with Adsense, Analytics and people logged in to their Google accounts for everything from Email to Gadgets and Docs. Then you have click through/click back rates from organic SERP's, Blogger, Feedburner as well as lumping the data on top of that from buyouts such as DoubleClick, YouTube, Performics and so on.

If you think Google has no data about your page, that's amusing.

Therein lies the rub. While patent watching can lead to some new theories, until they are proven (or disproven), they are simply theories and should never be put out as if they were fact where newbs might be mislead.

That's why i always test theories, as demonstrated above. Actually i have been involved in several of these click data experiments over the years, the first was with some of the members of SEOChat back in late 2003ish i believe it was when the theory first arose.

[nuclei]

Originally Posted by 1boss1

So nobody visits your page using the Google Toolbar

Funny you should mention that as I regularly check to see whats being sent by the toolbar. Sure it passes every url you visit, but it does not currently pass other possible factors such as time spent, referer, whether the browser was closed, etc.

It's data being used as a possible ranking factor currently seems a tad in the realm of the twilight zone.

Originally Posted by 1boss1

If you think Google has no data about your page, that's amusing.

I never said any such thing. I simply said google had no way of tracking all occurences of user interaction and termination, which would be essential in realistically being used as ranking factors.

Originally Posted by 1boss1

That's why i always test theories, as demonstrated above. Actually i have been involved in several of these click data experiments over the years, the first was with some of the members of SEOChat back in late 2003ish i believe it was when the theory first arose.

Oddly enough I recall that test.